Consept

I dont mind Hormozi tbh, it seems like he's trying to genuinely put something positive whilst making money, however it is hard to say concretely without seeing the behind scenes. But I have seen a lot worse in terms of marketing and orange business advice.( @LfcCharlie4 good to see you back btw, bet youre happy with this season lol) But i remember watching this guy Mike Winnets story about Gary V and i thought it gave an amazing look at how the operation actually works (story starts around 7 mins but whole thing worth watching) -

Nah i dont agree, i think its important to not be judgemental of peoples beliefs and yes if you attack them people will not like that. However I think its very important to be authentic and also if you do align with truth and people feel that, you will filter out those that dont. So you wont be able to connect with as many people but the connections you do have will be authentic, this will mean letting go of people you may even like or want to be friends with. Also practically I dont think people mind being pushed on their opinions, there is a way to engage where you can have conversations about others beliefs without coming across like youre attacking. The main thing to understand is what is your motivation for pushing them? I found before i wanted them to change because i wanted to connect and needed them to be in my 'reality', but really you can just meet people where they are at and appreciate them for it

I can't understate the impact social media has and is having. It literally rewards conflict and inducing rage in others, it's so open to manipulation from outside forces (foreign governments, entities making money). The algorithm can send people down extremely radical rabbit holes and get the locked in echo chambers that potentially can be distrustful of real critical thinking. Add to this world events like covid and these wars which had massive repercussions for everyone and I think the combination of things has fried a lot of people's brains.

I guess it's hard to get ones head around and I understand what you mean, as in if this girl says no just move on to the next who'll probably say yes. But I think what happens is they build up an entitlement around women as if they expect every woman to give them full access, so when one says no I think there's a certain outrage they may feel and they just take what they think is 'theirs' anyway. It's like if a kid in nursery thinks a communal toy belongs to them, when another kid plays with it they instantly grab it back even if they have to be aggressive. Also add in the fact that in Chamberlain's day very few men were getting charged with rape or sexual assault, so there's no consequences to dissuade him from doing it, not even social consequences. Now it's still fairly easy to not get charged but there are significant social consequences, which you can argue is good or bad.

Another one i hear a lot is, 'hes a good looking guy and rich etc women throw themselves at him why would he rape anyone', rape most times is about dominance and power, if a powerful guy gets rejected and feels entitled, its not too much of a stretch that he would go a further step and force something to happen, we've seen it happen countless times with rich and famous people.

Absolute scoundrel

I agree with you here Yeah I do sometimes feel like you project, thats not a dig at you just an observation, but i also appreciate your input. With the racism i think its easier to let it go with people you dont know, although it still does annoy me but I can put it down to ignorance. I think specifically for me its when the people know me but still come out with some racism conscious or otherwise. I do find it jarring, I dont know if thats something i want to learn to accept because i think it is good to speak up when something isnt right. At the same time i dont want to be someone whos looking for racism everywhere, which i dont think i do, but possibly i have done previously

I wouldnt say people keep reducing me to my physical body, I think generally im seen as more than that, even when it does happen as in if a woman is flirting with me or whatever im open to play with the dynamic even if im not attracted to the woman. In fact when i first joined this club i would flirt a little bit or at least respond positively, in just never crossed a certain line. I'm pretty strong internally and generally i get respect from a lot of people, i think what jars me is when you get reduced to that level by people that supposedly know you, it feels kinda underhanded, as they presented one way but really felt a different way about you. I'm also sensitive to when it happens to other people I dont really tolerate any racism around me no matter who its aimed at for example. The stuff with my uncle is representative of that because, hes supposed to know me. People in general it doesnt bother me. I mean i prefer for people to view me as my authentic self but its not something i can control. I think I do like the flexibility of role-play but the issue is im not in on most of this joke, theres literally a group chat im not involved where theyve shown pictures of me or talked about my dick, im not in on any of this so i didnt even have the chance to role play. I have flirted with some of them before but i just didnt realise the extent of what they were doing. OK fair enough, yeah im not in any kind of sex industry or put my body out there on social media so its not something I actively encourage, so potentially having the experience out of nowhere could be why it affected me. There is probably the racial element as well that gets to me, that does make my blood boil in general. theres no standard i set that allowed them or gave them permission to act like this, its just who they are and i guess in a way i shouldve expected something like this or not been that surprised. On the flip i have met some really good people through the club that actually surprised me the other way, so i guess just listen to my instincts about people more.

Its not about the double standards, but cool, you dont think that i can feel anything outside a logical outrage. I honestly dont care about the double standards Im more disappointed in their behaviour. Its a visceral feeling, not 'wait a minute, im not allowed to do that'. But your unwillingness to accept i might actually feel something does speak to a lot of these problems

I think you reducing this a lot. For one they dont know if i have a big dick or not, theyre saying it more based off of a stereotype. This isnt about them wanting to sleep with me, its just a way for them to have fun, kind of at my expense, im not in on the joke. I and the rest of the guys are not strippers who have accepted these type of things happen, we're just normal guys. If you think about it setting up a group, sharing pictures and making jokes in front of the target is a bit more than just looking at someone that youre attracted to, remember this was going on for 6 months. I dont think its wrong to have boundaries especially in a somewhat professional situation

Interesting, I was more saying women have their own struggles with it as I didnt want to dismiss that but yea thinking about it, I havent really experienced a group of adult men, objectifying a woman to this extent. However what you do get is essentially predators that are infinitely more dangerous and are capable of doing something egregious but my guess is its usually done solo, theres not a group dynamic. No i strongly disagree with you here, this is not a semantic argument thing of 'oh what if the tables were turned' i would only say that to give perspective. I genuinely felt objectified, reason is because I felt they reduced me to a sexual organ and made jokes that i could hear but not fully understand. If i heard it from random people its one thing but i saw them regularly once or twice a week, they got to no me etc. I had a similar feeling when a step uncle of mine, whos white, said something along the lines of 'youre just gonna look like one of those black boys' because i wore a silver chain when i was 18. I took offence because its like I see you as a complete person but you reduce me to a stereotype with ease. Obviously with the womens behaviour i didnt feel in danger or anything and Im not afraid to speak out, which is something I know is not a privilege of women. But you even dismissing that i might actually feel something that isnt just a rebellious argument, goes to show that a lot of women dont consider mens feelings. Thats not to get at you but i think it is an issue generally.

@LastThursday Thanks do much for your input, honestly so helpful. Yeah I think this definitely happened to some extent, essentially the owner was living a bit of a double life with the group and this bled over to normal social situations. I do think some of the humour was pushing the boundaries as well. Exactly yeah because there's a few them and no one calling it out it's just completely normalised. However they know it's not really right otherwise they wouldn't use coded language around me. So accurate again, I think that's it she wanted to keep her role in the group, however she does realise the flaws in the people involved and points them out, so she's aware they're not the most mature and to her credit doesn't fully follow them, for example they drink and party and she's never drunk before at all. So I do have respect for that and that she can hold her own identity. I'm not sure why she told me I wasn't really pressing her to, maybe on a sub-conscious level she felt it was the right thing to do. However, she kinda presented as, look at the funny banter we have. But her reaction of wanting to tell them not to do it anymore is positive. I do feel that she hasn't taken full accountability for her part in it, but I will grant her a bit of time with that. I am slightly conflicted about it, some things she handled well and others I'm not sure about

Wow, this is actually an amazingly accurate summation of what happened. I honestly don't think there was malicious intent as you say, it's really immature and how you describe but obviously I wasn't supposed to know. The other thing is that they would say things in front of me where I felt I wasn't in on the joke and obviously it was about me, so this kinda annoyed a little bit anyway, so I know something was going on. I guess that's part of their fun of how close can we get to the edge. What do you think about the girl that I'm seeing that told me about it, she didn't really say in a way where it was like, this is fucked up. She was also reluctant to tell me. She obviously got caught up in it and tagged along, assuming they've been doing this since I got there which was about 6 months I've only been seeing her 1 month so she wouldn't have had any specific loyalty to me before. Also unprompted she's now going to talk to this owner. I'm looking at her slightly different because I don't think I would've gone along with something like this but at the same time I get how it happens

The owner and the one driving the jokes is a lesbien, she might have been doing it because thats her type of humour or she knows the other girls find me attractive, I don't know the reason for sure but it's obviously a bit weird from my pov