Sugarcoat

I think it’s worth considering the idea of being the creator of one’s own suffering too. Because if it happens to be true we don’t wanna miss out on the opportunity to stop it. And questioning the self. In my experience with mental suffering it takes a lot of work to stop something as simple as imagining the future and fearing it, but it’s possible. Tricky and fascinating subject yes.

You actually don’t think this it just sounds good doesn’t it

Yea I’ve seen such patterns play themselves out

Yes the self is not questioned by most it seems Yes exactly the selfs survival agenda creates suffering. Personally realizing this takes a lot of self awareness I believe I’m not sure if i agree that we create the self. But we are for sure involved in maintaining it. And we can change that involvement. Once again takes self awareness. Regardless it’s a good idea in general to try to become aware of one’s role in suffering as much as possible to try to minimize it

Self awareness is key yes and being honest with oneself and setting ego aside

Yes

I agree with you that only exposure isn’t enough. It’s important to also do it consciously. I did contemplation too and as you say being more intentional with behavior where it doesn’t come naturally. Like I would smile and laugh when I noticed it was appropriate even if I didn’t feel like it because I was low. Or using short phrases (filler words etc) when it was suitable. Or actively focusing on the one who is talking to have less focus on myself. Sometimes it can feel forceful for a while before it feels natural, you gotta kinda push yourself to talk intentionally no matter what you feel to gain some momentum.

People compare themselves to others. They don’t wanna be unique in any way but unique in a good way, a cool way, to gain a pleasurable identity for themselves. If many people are like you then it’s harder to derive a pleasurable identity from how you are since if everyone is pretty nobody is pretty, etc people need that contrast to others for their own identity’s sake. Their identity isn’t independent of others, it’s dependent on others to be in opposition, a contrast to you, to make your qualities stand out. They exist in contrast to other people’s qualities. Black needs other colors to exist for example

Same

Yea it can be worth it if it increases matches. Nothing wrong with not going out much if it feels like the life you wanna live Whatever works for you.

I’ve not been in situations where the confidence goes up and down like that in relation to one another from what I remember but I see how that could happen. I have though experienced how different people can dominate the convo and how that can shift between people. I think if you manage to develop true confidence it should be there no matter who you interact with. Doesn’t mean your energy has to always be high, sometimes one can naturally sit back and listen and let someone else dominate the convo but one is still confident and relaxed just in a more quiet way because it suits the situation. So true confidence isn’t affected by other people and that’s the ultimate goal imo Thanks I’m glad it was that to you.

Yea

I say like Leo you have to keep exposing yourself to various social situations to expose yourself to your fears. To uncover all the ways you’re holding yourself back, being fake, all your strategies of avoidance (of eye contact for example). Learn to relax yourself while in these situations, relax the body. You could also subconsciously start to emulate a little bit of those seemingly confident people, that’s okay that is natural that it could happen in your social skills learning journey. It will take time. It took me years to completely transform myself from kinda awkward and insecure to natural and relaxed and confident. But it’s so worth it. You’ll get to a point where you don’t put those seemingly confident people on a pedestal anymore. You don’t see it as anything special because you have accessed it and built it in yourself so it’s normal to you. It’s both a building of confidence and breaking down of insecurity process. Anything that gives you confidence in other areas of life can also translate to your confidence in social situations because you’ll feel better about yourself in general.

You have a point there. We are the very self that I’m talking about that creates suffering. I’d say we both have an involvement in it and it’s “automatic” at the same time. So let’s take for example the need to fit in and the suffering that comes from being rejected from the social group. We are genetically wired to want to fit in and not be rejected, so the suffering that comes from that is automatic. But maybe at the same time we have a role in it by feeding those negative thoughts, maintaining tension in the body etc. So it’s like it’s both. Which one is greater I don’t know. I think in general it’s a good idea to be open to the idea of being involved in generating one’s suffering, because let’s say it’s true, then one doesn’t wanna miss out on the opportunity to lessen the suffering rather than just feeling like a victim. So I’m with you there.

It’s your choice to either play the game of the online dating apps or not. Maybe it feels like sacrificing some authenticity but I would say it doesn’t really matter in this context depending on to what extent you do it. And the reason being that the very initial attraction that makes someone swipe right on you (or maybe it’s left I don’t remember but I mean the direction that suggests they like you) is pretty much always going to be very superficial anyways. It’s gonna be based on your looks and then a little bit on the context of the image and the caption. It’s during the later interactions after you get a match that you get to showcase your authenticity and build something deeper there. I’d say don’t make yourself completely fake like making pictures that look like you have a hobby you don’t but a little bit of “fake” is fine. Like you said you like books and you don’t have physical ones, I think it’s fine if you’d go to a nice library or something and take a pic (maybe that’s not very interesting but you get my point so a little bit of fake is fine all the initial attraction is gonna be very superficial anyways)

Yea it’s something to think about. If you really like her maybe it’s worth to move there in case of relationship

Yea but I meant later when you eventually move back. A few months isn’t long for a relationship

Since you live in pr doesn’t that mean it would eventually turn into a long distance relationship? So you gotta think if you’re down for that

Ok I see. I wouldn’t so much say it’s self created but rather that the way the human self is structured and works at its core creates suffering. So in the same way one doesn’t chose to have an ego at all, it just appears in children, one doesn’t chose how it functions and it’s that which creates suffering. The responsibility is on the individual to try to change it but it’s not so much responsible for creating it I would say.

Ok I see. Is that your own experience of suffering though?

He means in the absolute sense or? Like reality can appear as suffering and it's for no reason. Or he means that there's no reason for anyone to suffer so its self created kinda?

So in your normal consciousness you wouldn’t see those patterns/energy?

Do you mean that’s a picture of non duality? I don’t really understand

I wonder if it’s more extreme in America where you live. Here in Sweden I haven’t heard such things happening to that extent. I see pretty women everywhere it’s quite common. That’s something a lot of men could work on, how they pedestalize women’s beauty That’s great you’ve been able to identify so clearly what it is you want to get more in touch with and express. You showcase a lot of self awareness too. I too have experienced wanting to get in touch with and working to become in touch with a kind of effortless authentic expression. I haven’t got much experience of feminine vs masculine at all, but rather this insecure vs confident effortless self. Trying to break through the insecurity to reach that authentic flow. So I relate to that you wrote about wanting to show up as yourself. The way we express ourselves and especially in discussions that are more heated there’s so much identity entangled in it, emotions, and this can breed that defensiveness and trying to maintain a safe self image, filtering our true expression to protect ourselves etc. So it’s a lot to unravel there for sure… And since masculine energy and men dominate the intellectual spheres it can be hard to show up more feminine

It’s a weird situation because beauty is something that is put on a pedestal so one would think it only comes with benefits both from inside oneself and from others but it is something that can make people treat you in a dehumanizing way. I can imagine that sucks. So there can be that dilemma of a woman wanting to be beautiful because of that boost in identity and empowerment you mentioned, but at the same time suffering the treatment of others because of it and unwanted attention that is not always positive. I can imagine it leaves traces all that previous treatment from people. Hopefully you’re able to work through that eventually. I think your “light shines” in this forum at least. It seems the older a woman gets the less beauty is central to her value from societies pov and she herself might become less concerned about it too. Because youth is associated with beauty so older women are more invisible to society. This can both be positive and negative for a woman. Positive because other qualities of her can shine more and she won’t get those negative consequences that comes with being a pretty young woman but negative because who wants to feel devalued and invisible