Sugarcoat

You def have a point. I see how there is suffering in all sides of it but I want to share this essence with my body as a desirable vessel for it….

Ofc they can. It’s more about the state of my body being undesirable thus I experience it a as a hindrance to my enjoyment of those things. trevligt

Lovely that you know what you want I guess

I know a lot of women do. Thanks tho I can’t for fucks sake quote you on this phone , gotta get a computer damn. But I’ll reply here. First I’m sorry you went through all of that. Your experience describes what little me has always fantasized about and experienced would be the answer to my problems : how no matter how shitty things are, if I’m just hot I’d be doing okay somehow. Not primarily in terms of others perception because some people would still see the problems, but more for my own well being. Like a protective shield. But you prove that it doesn’t work im actually more curious about how you where able to suffer so deeply, I’m genuinely curious because for all my life I’ve lived this detached existence where all my suffering is subtle and I’m almost incapable of suffering deeply. But this is a certain suffering too, a more subtle ever persistent icky ness about life. you bring up different angles one could come from with this conditioning. It’s like the same thing fundamentally this hotness thing but it expresses itself differently in different girls with different bodies and brains. The girl in the video, me and you, all valid experiences - pretty much the same thing deep down as you mention - this struggle with femininity as neurodivergent women. Relate relate. No diagnosis YET but there is no doubt really I like that you mention. Someone had to say it. It’s funny how people here talk as if I’m some average woman on the street with some shallow tendency. Not an inch of my being says normal. Not only do I sense it myself, but even other people , including people with for example autism themselves, have suggested that I’m neurodivergent (autism mentioned most). From my own research and experience too, there is something going on here. I’m not just the average girl with a little neurotic tendency to obsess over her appearance. It’s almost offensive somehow when people make it to be like that. Tell that to the little 12 yo girl who rubbed her lips aggressively with a towel everyday until they could bleed to make them look bigger. Or who crashed her phone to pieces because she was sad about her nose .”you’re just shallow” lol Regarding plastic surgery. I had rhinoplasty last year actually . It was an extremely desperate decision, I couldn’t stand my nose . thank you for your oppennes. It can be like that, some of us feel like we have this sexiness and femininity and coolness we have cultivated within ourselves over the years but it pains us how this body isn’t desirable to us to be able to “own” it and express it.

Aww thanks. It is a journey to find this athlete in you. For me, this athleticism was constrained by my mind/ego. As it is for a lot of women, as in, the body has a desire to move and be healthy, but because of this conditioning, we develop eating disorders and other shit that takes all the joy out of this movement and turns it into this rigid thing so we’re all together on this journey with our athleticism in a way.

I fit into your description of a person who is independent of others reactions. It’s a different experience yet similar fundamentally. Instead of being bound to others perception, you have your own mental perception you picked up from somewhere that you are bound to San are trying to meet. Maybe a parallel to this experience of feeling “less radiant” in your case to my case, sometimes when I’ve gotten closer to this ideal mental image, I’ve felt less “radiant” as you say. So I think I can see what you’re trying to say somehow. I don’t know what causes this difference between being more bound to others perception vs your own inner (same suffering tho). Maybe natural temperament or personality (I’ve always been extremely introverted) I’m glad you’ve become aware of this and are perhaps able to work through it.

true. It is the strongest conditioning for women at least in the west I think. It is so strong that even the women who work hard to “accept themselves” instead of obeying it like me struggle. this relaxation into our body - it’s something I’ve experienced as a gradual thing that settles as I’ve gotten older, more and more each year. So you’re right, it does get better. True that, most women are struggling with this in a way . That’s why my post isn’t personal per se as some of the replies are making it to be, there is a sprinkle of this more or less in most women especially young ones. My being is perhaps more open aware and sensitive to this conditioning as is thus able to articulate it so bluntly “it is always better to not be bound”. I agree with you here. Women have tried it, to live from their appearance, how miserable doesn’t that show itself to be Yet, some of us struggle with the opposite in a way. I don’t even dare to feel sexy when I think I look good. Because it’s too dangerous. What if I enjoy it, then suddenly it switches and I think I look terrible again and now I’m suffering that, since I bound myself to the state of my body. So you end up living detached from the body, which is a kind of pain in itself. yes yes

Plumbing?

Well originally it came from society as it influenced me as a child. My “character” was perhaps extra aware and sensitive to it. Then as we grow older we have a choice in how we relate to this conditioning, so you have a point there. Some of us see the answers to our problem in adapting to it rather than fighting it, we WANT to obey it. Crazy right? I rarely rarely complain about it, 99% of the time I’ve worked for it instead. This post was a burst of authentic expression, not really negative per se just a rawness.

You said it yourself. The awareness made it a blessing . That’s the key I think

Cringe is fundamental to my existence hagagag why are you seeeing right through me that sounds scary tho

That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. Shocking how you pin point it so precisely

Dear music Thank you for allowing me to leave my body To detach from it so fully I forget it even exists To escape from the disturbing vast mystery that it is To not have to see all its flaws , but to instead see the mental projection of how I would want it to be All with the support of you, dear music It’s not possible without you It’s not the same Without you I suddenly feel everything All the sensations , all the asymmetries, the heaviness in my limbs, the tension in my muscles , the pressures , the warmth and the cold All these things which I feel so fully It overwhelms me Clouds my perception But you clear it all out, dear music You allow me to go into you fully , so that all I sense is you, and nothing else You bring me that smoothness I’m trying so hard to create by my seemingly futile effort Why try so hard When all I need to do is to put on my headphones and click on play and there you are Taking me in with open arms Coddling me like a little baby Who cannot even sense its body You take me back to that place Allowing me fully into your space Dear music

Yea I agree and sometimes this happens not by choice

And I appreciate your sincere response , and the fact that you sense that sincerity in my post!! I like your point of view, it is quite profound and I think there are many different levels one could grasp what you just said. I feel like I understand what you just wrote conceptually, I’ve thought through the same things. This thing about the sameness in suffering, how one gets used to where one is at etc etc. It was mental for me. Then this shift happened. Profound beyond words. It left me in utter shock, I ugly cried for hours. Totally ungraspable . A totally new dimension opened up for me I cannot say what shifted energetically. But it was like suddenly my sense of being was released from the shackles of mental imagery. hotness for me had been a mental image - a mental image I was trying to live in, by changing my body to match it so that I could project this image from my mind onto my body and live as it, And no matter how much I tried, I couldn’t stabilize myself in this mental projection - something was off . It wasn’t stable enough this post was a spontaneous momentary expression that encapsulated the very essence of my mind. But since this shift where something new beyond my mind opened up, I can still sense what I wrote and feel it, but it’s not everything. so that’s another way to grasp what you just said, I think, about how suffering is about how one processes life etc - it was the same mind trying to run away from itself almost okay now I’m just going off a tangent but yes as you say also, how I don’t want the suffering of not being hot, yea totally, I was haunted by this sense of awkwardness, and it’s like I was trying to hide it under some ideal appearance that would act like this protective shield almost

Well I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, i think it’s more about my own access to my own sexuality or something Some guys pay attention to me. It happens sometimes , it’s usually neutral to me, how I experience it. And if I do enjoy it, I go into panic mode I can be hot in my “energy”, but the raw physical appearance is the difficulty for me meeting that long list seems almost harder than meeting my idea Hahahha

hmmmm I would more say it’s about accessing my sexuality you have a very interesting point tho. It’s a new way of looking at it I haven’t really thought much about before. You might be onto something for example , I would describe myself as neurodivergent although I haven’t gotten assessed for it as a child I felt alienated from people , awkward and odd . Several people have suggested I’m autistic, and my own research has pointed to this too Perhaps something inside of me saw hotness as a way to get connected to the world? Something in my mind picked up from society, that ; it’s okay to be weird as you are, as long as you’re hot you have a place in this world. Perhaps so? Who knows

Don’t you think your girl looks hot ??????????????? is she worse than a goat or something sorry jk… or not Jokes aside i know the bar isn’t high hahahah trust me. It’s more about this painful awareness of potential. I wanna experience my peak hotness before time runs out, and I’m willing to do everything for it haha ”personal preference” what is this personal everyone is talking about. Societal conditioning is my personal desires - there’s not that much distinction between them.

I totally get your annoyance hahaha I don’t really see happiness as a goal. It’s such a diffuse term. When I want something it’s always something very specific , maybe just me? I can’t say I want to be happy, because what is happiness? An emotion? A state? What are the qualities of it? Any answer leads you to something specific - and this something specific has been this hotness I guess that I picked up from soceity as a young child and it latched onto my mind like my entire existence depended on it. It’s almost like this awareness of potential. If I was thrown into a remote island without any way to make myself hotter then yes I’d be forced to accept it and I’d be happy because it is what it is, unchangable. But in this life, in these circumstances, it’s like I have this awareness of how much more I could improve my looks and I wanna experience the ultimate peak of it, with limitations of course, I’m not talking about doing all the plastic surgery in the world hahaha. what do I want from it? Well for me it has been about my sexuality primarily I think . Sexuality has been strongly associated with hotness, that’s what society taught me early on. So I have felt like I cannot access my sexuality if I don’t experience myself as hot, so it’s like, I can accesss everything else, I can feel smart, social, funny, but sexual - this thing out of my reach that was very beautifully written. I see how you’re trying to reach me sincerely with your words. A lot of women would benefit from hearing those words

I can’t fully answer you what it’s about at its core. It’s very existential tho. I have contemplated this desire with openness, even while high on weed, tried to understand it at its roots. Have yet not understood it fully, seen it for what it is. It can sound shallow, this desire, but from my perspective, it can run just as deep as any other desire . Mindsets in general have had me running in circles. It’s almost like I’m reaching the edge of reality, this mental reality that I’ve lived in all my life. I don’t need a new mindset, I need something else well for me, soceities desire, is MY desire. What soceity thinks, is what I think. I’m a bit sceptical towards this strong distinction between what society teaches and then what you want. what are you without societal conditioning anyways? How could you separate yourself from it i agree with you that physical appearance and personality can be regarded as equal when it comes to what one values and one isn’t necessarily higher or lower. And as you say they compliment each other. Don’t really know what else to add here well. It has been more internal than external for me. This inner ideal I’ve been trying to meet. It’s independent of others opinions, even if someone expressed their attraction to my appearance, it wouldn’t have much affect on me. In contrast, some go out in the world and interact with people and try to find themselves there, for example a woman who perhaps sleeps with a lot of men to feel hot and desirable That’s more external, which is what it seems you’re referring to. Well I know where it comes from originally . This hotness obsession, society of course. But that awareness doesn’t shake nor threaten this desire, it still stands strong like nothing else. I like your last point! There was a period where I was intensely obsessed with overcoming social anxiety and reaching some ideal charisma. So yes personality can have equal of a grip on us

Thank you for your openness. yes it is scary sometimes, to desire so fully, this fear of losing control and losing ourselves in it authenticity is the best for sure the text was very deeply intimate yes I agree

I genuinely wonder what kind of pain one has to be in to want something like that

Croatian but born and live here in Sweden so thankful for living here

Yea you have a point. For me it has been more struggling to receive the love, rather than getting it at all. I understand that it could be perceived as shallow. But also I don’t differentiate much between different desires as deeper vs more shallow. I don’t necessarily think the suffering caused from let’s say the desire to become “awakened” is “higher” than my suffering to become hot, why would it? Isn’t it just the same mind creating some mental destination, at least for a lot of people, I’m not saying for all. it’s not cringy at all but you have a good point there. Well in my experience the love from within can be equally as conditional as love from outside when we hold ourselves to certain standards. But as you say yea if we just allow ourselves to experience it more unconditionally it can be very healing.

I work to change the things I’m dissatisfied with, so the satisfaction is earned.