cetus

@Lorenzo Engel I can relate to that experience. It may be that the mind transcends all thought. Mind comes to a dead stop and only awareness remains. You can actually watch a thought coming out of nothingness and arising into consciousness like a bubble. It is a very blissful state of mind being at rest. Sometimes it is referred to as the state of Samadhi.

@Mal Agreed, maybe timeless would have been a better choice of words. no beginning , no end. Sorry things headed in a negative direction yesterday. My own ego got the best of me when you referred to my view of no-self as "useless". I also felt a little criticized. It's all good . We all have different views. Maybe we are all correct and incorrect at the same time. (so to speak). Who really knows? Sometimes you just have a day where you start questioning everything suddenly. Maybe we are all just a projection of thought? or maybe we are something much bigger as a "self" that we cannot see from this point of view (that would be nice). What is right and what is wrong? The truth is, nobody can really say with 100% assurance.* I'm speaking in plain English (just as a note.) Anyway it's all good here. Have a great day

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj I suffer from the symptoms you describe. Mine has to do with the nerve endings. It seems to get worse in the warmer weather too. I thought it was circulation at first but I went to a foot specialist and he said it was nerve endings. (Neuropathy) My knees get purple too. Sometimes my feet are cold as ice and sometimes they feel like their burning. If I don't wear socks like in the summer time the swelling gets much worse. I'm not saying that is what you have but it could be.

Why did you pick me today?@Mal Oh man! Where you trying to take all this?

@Mariem I see, your main topic question you are referring to. Contemplation and deep observation both come from a place of stillness and silence. "Thinking" is within the movement of the mind. If you held that place of stillness and silence it would permeate everything else you do.

@Mariem Thought are just thoughts. Like clouds moving across a blue sky. They come, than they go.

This is the first question you are referring to? I'm not totally sure what that means exactly. "I' wants to be aware of "my" thoughts? Maybe you could expand on that.

@Mariem Throw out everything so that only empty awareness exists. Then there will be no practice. There will not even be a "you" to do any practice. Does that sound too easy? .

You have taken my statement too literally. I'll explain for there to be what is everywhere and nowhere at the same time breaks down the conceptual constructs that the mind creates. As if saying: it is everything and nothing at the same time or it is a" big dance" and a "small dance" at the same time. I am not referring to "time" literally as in the ticking of a clock. Does the dance really have a size?

@Amir The thinking mind puts constructs on everything because it is a product of it's spatial field plus time and therefore a sense of where the self is located within that field. That's fine for physical activities such as driving a car or walking a busy city or not hitting your head on a low hanging object. It orientates itself within that space as perceiving distance, up, down, the size of a given space, the passing of time, ect. When the mind that creates those orientations is silenced through meditation, all those mental constructs can fade away. All that remains is awareness that has no such confines or limitations.

Just an observation: It's funny how the ego mind gets a little freaked out at the thought of no-self. But do you notice that when we experience something really beautiful like a sunset or a landscape or a beautiful painting for example, than it's fine that our sense of self is completely transcended in that moment. We need to remove the "me" from being first observer at all times by allowing pure awareness to the forefront and stepping out of the way. We all experience awareness but so often it's taken for granted and overshadowed by the sense of self that the mind creates. And that is only because awareness is so silent and subtle, patient and resting. It is not "my" awareness or "your" awareness, but simply the field of awareness. We with our little fictional stories of self will come and go, but awareness is timeless and formless. It will continue through all of existence. It is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

I just checked out some of the mp3 excerpts. Sweet! I may order that soon. Thanks@Toby

@Teags I was following Leo's direction in one of his video's when I felt the sense of no-self coming on. At that point I paused the vid and just sat with that. I never expected anything like that to happen though. It was the most powerful thing I ever experienced. And that is exactly what it is, just an experience of no-self that I'm sharing with you. Follow whatever path you find to be true, you will know it when it's right..

@Teags 5 seconds of seeing the truth is worth everything. You say you felt it too. It shakes your ground, so to speak. I did what you describe as getting a good sense of self, putting it into one pile and realizing what an illusion it all really is. I suddenly felt the bottom to my world fall out (the ego/self). I backed off at first b-c it was getting so intense with the no-self. My perception was shifted from my usual experience of "me" doing the perceiving to a feeling of Omni-present awareness. Consciousness was no longer at my body location, but in the surrounding field beyond me. I backed off wondering to myself, "is this O.K. to be doing" ? But that feeling of being Omni-present had a very inviting feeling to it, familiar and welcoming but freaky at the same time. I finally mustered up the nerve and surrendered to that state of no-self. This is where it gets hard to explain. Suddenly it was as if I was no longer in my surroundings but removed to a state of pure blissful emptiness/ pure aware. It felt as if I was witnessing the pure self or soul or Atman that connects us all. You may want to try something the next time you start to experience the sense of no-self, surrendering to it. See what happens. You asked for deep, there you go.

@Toby When we transcend the façade of self, all that remains is pure beautiful empty awareness. It emerges as a state of being that is found only in the present moment. It is what we truly are. What else could be said?

is resting as awareness the next step towards enlightenment? If I could ask, when you had the realization of self being an illusion, did it devastate your sense of "I" or was it more conceptual as an understanding. I guess what I'm asking is, how deep did you go? Did you totally surrender to it?

@Teags What now? Rest as awareness

@abrakamowse That's interesting. It is a classic. I haven't seen my copy for years so I ordered it on ebay this morning. About half the book is illustrations. The whole book is a trip in itself because it takes you out of the mind set of what is "normal" reality. It's one mans journey to India and finding a guru that helped him see through the illusion of himself.

I gotta go with Ram Dass. His book "Be Here Now" was the first I ever read on this subject. It was quite an awakening for that time.

@DizIzMikey I got to the point where my mind finally just imploded in on itself. I had that feeling that either I was losing my mind OR I just "lost" my mind (no-mind). That was just the ego/self realizing it's final demise through seeing the illusion of mind and the game it plays

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj Nice! His ego mind got the best of him. Who hasn't been there before? Haha

@Nick5050 Nice start for sure!

You may be right at the breaking point. The ah-ha moment as it's called. The first time experiencing it, I felt like a freaking ghost. Everything I ever related to as being "ME" was suddenly gone.

@Heart of Space When you had the realization, it was a seeing through the illusion of self?