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@HereNowThisMoment What Mooji shares @ 56:00 may help, Very insightful.

@Nexeternity Watching the Perseid's Meteor shower. (tonight- Friday morning 8/11-8/12). There could be an outburst this year!

@Frogfucius Lot's of concepts going on in science and mind. But sometimes that could open a door for some that may not otherwise see or experience themselves moving beyond time and space as we know it. Just watch some Brian Greene, haha I just watched "The Zeroth Dimension" within a scientific framework it addresses a lot of the same areas as enlightenment work does. Still, no matter how you cut it, it's all just more concepts of mind. The rose is cool!. It is all an unfolding process. What is changeless manifesting itself as change within a field awareness. Amazing! Who knows that? What knows that? More concepts? Oh no!

@Frogfucius Nothing wrong with that if you see science only as a tool or a springboard. If it helps you to create an opening in the mind beyond all 'this" than it is good and should not be denied. We all want to experience what lies beyond this existence. And understanding what existence is with the mind through science, physics and mathematics maybe the key that opens the door to what lies beyond for some people. Here is a conceptual framework for example. Physics theory says there are 11 dimensions. This existence is said to be the 1st through 4th and directly experienced as the 3-rd+time (the 4th). The 9th being a "probability space" where everything exists in the form of raw information that has not yet been put into action (manifested). So it sits there in a neutral flux state, waiting to happen if it is chosen by cause and effect of an action within this existence. It could be seen from that view that consciousness, through body/mind could be the product of the sum total of all dimensions experiencing itself within the 3rd-D+Time through raw physical manifestation working in conjunction with awareness. Of course the false self image that believes that it is a totally separate entity loves to take credit for what it experiences and in doing so, ignores the fact that it may be something very different that is really causing all "this" to happen from outside of this dimension. Just keep in mind that all these models are no more than the conceptual framework that we place on ourselves as being separate from the whole. The limited mind experiences all this from the limited perspective of this physical plane. If it's science that helps you start to break down the confines of this 3rd-D space- time and transcend it, who knows where that could lead, so that is a start. Look at mathematics also. Everything within existence being #1 through all the others numbers into infinity. Than there is Zero. Zero contains all the other numbers, but yet it contains nothing. Only the fact that it is empty allows it to do so. Zero is Alpha Omega. Zero proceeds all numbers and it will remain untouched after all numbers are gone. So numbers represent existence. But Zero lies beyond and is changeless. What was before the "big bang" could be seen as Zero. Than what is after the big bang (existence) is where the beginning of all numbers start. Zero could be seen symbolically as nothingness, emptiness or the void that everything springs forth into manifestation from. To sum this all up. If you look deeply enough into existence itself, you will find clues that point to the source of it. Like subtle arrows pointing the way to the truth. They are all around us at all times. Many are so obvious that they are taken for granted and we don't see the deeper meaning within them. Nothing is hidden. *No concept or words are any different than any other, scientific or spiritual. The only thing that truly matters is the direct experience of what you are beyond the limited self as body/mind within existence. What gets you there is not what matters. Use concepts to your advantage than discard them all without exception. Just don't get trapped in them or they will make you their prisoner without you realizing it. Even the concept of what may lie beyond the manifest must be thrown out. I personally don't care what lies beyond "this". For now there is only this that truly exists. Something has sent us here for a reason. I have accepted both sides of the coin but I reside here for now. When the time comes and the lights go out and I stop existing, so be it. I will fully except that than. You said you are "fascinated" by all this that is happing here? Good, that is what the cosmos intended for you to do so it could discover and experience itself! Never let that die! 'You" are here for a reason.

@xXguitarsenXx Let go of the illusion of self. Allow "you" to fall away. Absolute surrender of everything. If your not experiencing a breakthrough at this point, you may not be totally letting go of yourself and still holding on. Give yourself some time. Than when your ready, give yourself a gift by totally surrendering all self. *Just as a note: if it starts to feel a little freaky at some point, that's it. Don't shy away from that. That's the doorway to a completely different experience. Different from anything you have ever experienced from the perspective of "you". Leo's video "Neti-Neti Guided meditation" would work nicely here. Don't just hear the words and conceptualize what he is saying, actually experience it. He is creating a crack in the wall of illusion for you to look through. It lies beyond all the words and conceptualizing.

@Nexeternity I understand I'm not my "thinking" or conceptualizing mind as I stated earlier. Not all the time anyway. I know I can't "think my way to enlightenment". Even the thought of what enlightenment is automatically turns it into an illusion or concept of mind. That would be trying to bring enlightenment down to this lowly level of the" known". That's not going to happen any time soon. "If it can be spoken of, that ain't it", as the old saying go's. On rare occasions I have experience what I am as pure empty awareness, no self, no likes, no dislikes, no love, no hate, no emotions. no attachment, no knowing of any kind what so ever. True bliss and liberation from the egoic mind. There was nothing for the ego to cling to, good, bad or indifferent. But that was just tastes and not a permanent state. This is where my original question lies. Leo reminded of something in a statement he made in another post very recently. I think it points to the answers I seek. There is absolute nothingness, the "infinite singularity" that is pure, empty awareness. Maybe I could say, at best I have witnessed that from a distance. But if i became that, that would cause the final shards of self to utterly burn to ash and all remnants of self would than vanish without a trace. Total and final liberation from self. I did feel that when the experiences happened. But it's always fleeting within time. So here is where I'm at now to sum it all up. I must become that and not just experience it. I can see the difference in that now! Thanks brother, all of this really helped piece everything together for me in all different ways! This should all come together nicely at some point. Maybe I can get myself off this see-saw ride to enlightenment once and for all by not just focusing on awareness but to utterly become it in every way. * I wrote this the other day and forget never hit the send button. Well here it is now. I just read your latest statement above. Don't worry about it. Yea there is always plenty of work to be done. I been at it on and off for 30 yrs. and there is still plenty to be done! It's a life long journey. I 'm thinking lately I should maybe put a little boost into my experience. Something that may kick it up a notch. Maybe experiment a little.

@Leo Gura What is described here is exactly what I experienced on several rare occasions. This is the definition of "ego death" (I just found this yesterday). Does this sound anything like "infinity" ? Or not even close? So I'm a little confused on this "ego death" experience and how much "infinity" may differ from it. Same? slightly different? Hugely different? *This seems like a description of more than just "ego death" to me. But what do I know. According to Leary, Metzer & Alpert (1964), ego death, or ego loss as they call it, is part of the (symbolic) experience of death in which the old ego must die before one can be spiritually reborn.[13] Ego loss is ... complete transcendence − beyond words, beyond space−time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvements. ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles, rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic space−time locations.....

@Kyle M According to Leary, Metzer & Alpert (1964), ego death, or ego loss as they call it, is part of the (symbolic) experience of death in which the old ego must die before one can be spiritually reborn.[13] Ego loss is ... complete transcendence − beyond words, beyond space−time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvement.

@Kyle M Next you can conquer the ego self. Breaking down that "scare the shit out of me" as you call it stuff. That's where it's taking you next. Research "ego death". Study it and familiarize yourself with it. Move past all fear the same as you did with the pain. Your breaking through all the mind to find what lies beyond it. There is more to go. Put total trust into that "higher consciousness" and it will see you through. It will bring you home by totally surrendering to it. This is the key. That "scare the shit out of me" is the doorway believe it or not. Yea, I know. Holy shit!

@Kyle M I can relate to that one. It feels as if your awareness is suddenly tuned to a higher frequency. I'm not sure exactly what that is. Maybe the brain is functioning in a different wave pattern? It happened to me a couple times. It's almost like a trance state or something. Way different than anything I ever experienced before. The first time it happened I remember saying to myself "Holy shit I never knew consciousness/awareness could shift like this!". It felt as if consciousness changed channels to a totally different station, just like changing stations on a radio. My eyes were wide open too at the time but what I was seeing was not the room in front of me anymore. I was seeing into a totally different space within consciousness. *I was stone sober at the time so there were no "outside" influences. just as a note. Any of this sound familiar?

@Richard Alpert "LSD is like CHRIST in America which is awakening the young folk in Kali Yuga. America is most materialistic country. therefore God has shown his Avatar in the form of LSD (a material). They wanted a material for approaching God and they got it in the form of LSD" -Hari Dass Baba *Quoted from Ram Dass's book- Remember-Be Here Now

@Leo Gura In a strange way I have always related to the "singularity". Not with the mind directly. But it's as if something beyond "me" knows this all to well. To my mind it feels as if something very important has been forgotten. It feels as if it is there but hiding out of sight from the mind. It's felt, rather than known. That's the best way I can convey it.

@Richard Alpert I may be mistaken about it being Ram Dass who had said that. I heard this story years ago and understood there were other ways to reach higher levels of consciousness besides the use of drugs. It's one of the reasons I started meditation. Btw-your name sounds very familiar.

@Nexeternity Yea, I think your right when you said love and accept your ego too! I never would have thought of that. I guess I'll have to live with it at times? But how do you stay in the state of transcendence from self and the known at all times, if I may ask? Like right now, the illusion of "me" conversing with what it wrongfully perceives as a "you" exchanging thoughts together. I know that's an illusion happing within an illusion. But sometimes I forget and think that there is actually someone "here" or "there" having this exchange of knowing when there is neither a you, me, here or there. How do I learn to love and except this illusion? That gave me a thought just now. Maybe I could just laugh at it all? Like a cosmic giggle at the absurdity of it . That could possibly work in transcending this illusion of self at all times. I'll see how it goes by trying both. Loving the ego aspect of self vs. the no-self with no ego to love.

@Nexeternity Sweet! Great poetry too! Really enjoyed it a lot. Let me ask you about how you see this problem i'm having, if i could. The first time i experienced the self as nothing more than a conceptualizing illusion, i felt like a freaking ghost. There was suddenly no "Me" to conceptualize anything. Everything up until that moment was always experienced as being "Me" inhabiting "My" body, and conceptualizing, everything. The biggest conceptualization of all , of course, was that there existed an "I" in this body to do the conceptualizing in the first place. That was the granddaddy of all conceptualizations. I feel a little schizophrenic now because I"m not enlightened. Two worlds exist, so to speak. Mind vs. no mind. There is a morphing between the two at best. When I fall back into an unawaken state. i slip and think that there is an "I" inhabiting this body, It's like a self induced hallucination of "Me". But how to stay in that state of no-self and awakened at all times? Like right now. It's "Me" thinking these thoughts and hitting these keys. This is all a hallucination of "me" happening, but what remains to know that? I keep falling back into the hallucination that there is someone here doing this. My biggest question has always been, WHAT REMAINS? It's like there is something here that shouldn't be. What's up with that? The "I" should have turned to complete ashes and smoke. Enlightenment must be amazing! Well no, that's not right, there would be no one to be amazed when enlightened. Any suggestions that could help would be greatly appreciated. I feel like a ghost in the machine since. *You like poetry, You may be well familiar with this one by Walt Whitman "I must not be awake, for everything looks to me as it has never before. Or else, I'm awake for the first time and everything that was before was just a dream"

@Falk I'm sitting here for a while now with hardly a sense of self. I'm noticing that what is happening is that the mind is moving in and out of the known. When there is no known, there is only awareness within silence. It feels like total emptiness within this space. Freedom from the known. I'm observing the two in contrast to each other. And it's a pretty stark contrast too. The mind is full of shit one second- than the mind is totally empty. There is no in between. *Just wanted to share something that seems to be meaningful in the moment. It probably won't mean a thing in an hour from now.

@Falk When you start feeling this way, this may be part of the process working? Maybe try banging into that feeling of "this is useless" over and over like hitting a solid wall again and again and see what happens. Any process that causes the mind to surrender is a good process. Usually that happens when the mind gets frustrated and finally gives in. Again, I'm not all that familiar with self-inquiry and how it works so other's advise may be better.

@Falk Thanks, I just read that. It seems to break the mind of all questions. Almost like a koan would do? I once experienced a state of consciousness where all questions ceased to exist. That was but one of the aspects of that experience. Any question became totally redundant to even think of or ask. I remember that experience well so when my mind starts asking to many questions, I think of that place where all questions become meaningless. A deep calm and stillness within the mind is all that remains. This may be what self-inquiry tries to accomplish.

@Falk Personally, I haven't done much self inquiry work so I can't be to helpful with that. Have you seen Leo's Neti-Neti video yet? I would think that would bring similar progress as self-inquiry would. I just watched it for the first time and thought it was excellent.

" used drugs for a different purpose and experienced something unexpected that lead me here"

@Leo Gura What the hell, I think I may give it a try once at some point. Totally by my own choice of course. Different perspectives can't hurt at all. There was a story that someone famous was visiting their guru in India. Maybe it was Ram Dass? Shit, I forgot. Anyway, he gave his guru a tab of acid. He took it and sat there for hours seemingly un-phased by the experience. Then he asked the guru hours later what he thought. He said "enlightenment came to India through meditation and spirituality. Enlightenment has now come to the west through the physical form of a chemical because in the west, they are a civilization that relies on the physical ".

@Nickinicki343 Years ago I worked with a guy who practiced meditation and was also a vegetarian. If I was going to the deli for a sandwich for lunch and he wanted something too, it was a cheese sandwich only. He would tell me to make sure they didn't slice the cheese on the same slicer that they used for the meat. He was very adamant about that. One day I asked him why he felt so strongly about not eating meat. He said, when the animal is slaughtered it's body tissue retains a memory of that stressful event and he wanted no parts of that. It was also a moral thing too to for him not eat meat/animals. That was just bad karma. So I guess it all what you believe in.

@Emerald Wilkins This is interesting. Way different?

I have experienced something in this area. Azrael mentioned lucid dreaming, this is what I was doing at the time. I was aware enough within the lucid dreaming state that I could move through space at will. I was suddenly floating past galaxy's and planets and suns and totally aware of everything that was passing in front of me. It seemed so real..... or maybe I should say it seemed to take on it's own reality. I have also been into astronomy for a long time and I seen many images of deep space. I'm pretty sure???? that it was just my mind pulling up memories and placing them within that semi dream state. But it was really cool anyhow.! Now this is something else that I experienced. When I had my first "no-self" or transcendence of self experience, I could feel awareness projected out in front of me. Not like remote viewing or an OBE or something. I could not see from that projected place. But something that always resided at my body location, was suddenly on the other side of the room. I can't even say what that was for sure. But I could feel it. Something happened. It took my by surprise, I never expected anything like that to happen.

@Emerald Wilkins Is our ultimate desire is to become non-existent. To completely vanish without a trace? That would be true bliss because there would be no "you" to have an experience of any kind. Someday we will all find our way home and become pure emptiness again. But for now, here we are. Kicking around on this rock and having experiences of all colors shapes and forms as the manifestation of emptiness. When you see everything from the perspective of non-existence, you can also see by comparison that one experience is really no different than any other. They all happen within this realm of existence and here they will stay.