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meditation is not that useful
meditation is not that usefulOn that level, nothing. Nothing ever changes which is everything constantly changing. As for getting into wonderfully blissful states, there is basically no substitute for meditation, sure. In fact it seems in this forum there is widespread underestimation of meditation, to the point where there are people using recreational drugs for pleasure, completely unaware that skillful meditation states blow all recreational drugs out of the water as far as pleasure goes. It's not right or wrong, just uninformed.
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Are psychedelics a Complete Path?
Are psychedelics a Complete Path?I used all kind of products during my 20s and 30s, and although drugs like acid and dimitri can be a wake up call they are not a path to enlightenment.
A lot of people get into an ego trip after tripping hard, and Frank Yang, although he seems like an honest guy, also seems completely trapped in his ego-mind. Personally I stopped watching Leo's video's after he claimed 5meo was "the way" and that nobody can ever get to that state by natural means. This is off course completely wrong and even dangerous for less stable people.
It's been 10+ years since I last took something stronger than Cannabis, and I experience the world like I'm on a light acid trip nowadays. The experience is not important, it just acts as a reminder that reality is indeed a wonderful dream..
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via PsychedelicsI wrote this as a PM response, but it's probably going to interest someone else as well so I'll post it here too. Not that I think it's in any way helpful but there you have it.
Like I said, it's absolutely ineffable. It tore me apart and reassembled me in the outer layers of infinity, and this kept happening forever, for all infinity. And when I say forever I mean forever. It showed me worlds that are so beyond this one that describing even the tiniest part could fill 500 books and not get even remotely close. It showed me all levels of existence, and then threw me out of them as if they're nothing. It's simply unimaginable, no words could come close, or touch this experience in any way imaginable. If you've ever done some psychedelic and broken through, multiply that by a million and it's still a tame experience in comparison. It breaks reality. This experience happened more than a decade ago and I'm still collecting the pieces. I honestly have no idea what the fuck happened. It's hard to talk about because while I faintly remember the experience, I just know I can't English it because it would be like trying to stick a fork into the moon.
I know this doesn't help much but I literally can't share the experience not because I don't want to but because it was out of this world and as such, unable to be mapped to any concept from this world. If you ask me, it was beyond even death. I was infinity, forever. How I ever found a way back to my body is a mystery. It was the weirdest thing that ever happened to me by a factor of one trillion.
This should go without saying but please do NOT take Salvia. I haven't benefited much from this experience, other than being shown that everyone is completely full of shit and nobody actually knows what's going on. If you're going to do psychedelics, take any "lesser" psychedelic, they are far easier to integrate. Even DMT, while I haven't done it, doesn't sound like it has the potency of Salvia. I've read hundreds of trip reports from DMT and not a single one mentioned being stuck in infinity or experiencing months or years in another world. Salvia CAN take you there. So can Datura. Stay away from those two.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics@The Rainmaker A hammer is a tool. A psychedelic is an entity. You wouldn't call a horse a tool, either. I've benefitted enormously from them as well, I simply believe that they're not going to ever wake you up.
@Gennadiy1981 You still come down from it. And Salvia still wipes the floor with it, whatever it may be. 5meo may show you that you're God, but Salvia shows you that even that is a delusion. Salvia shows you that the only thing you can really say about reality, is nothing. It breaks every concept you have, including God. There is simply nothing left to say after that. In short, Salvia shows you that nobody knows anything, we're all a bunch of idiots really.
And you can go full Leo and say, oh well that's just God imagining things. Well, no. It's not. It's too mysterious, too powerful, too alien, and too ancient. It's a force that transcends our best guesses. And God is just one our best guesses.
Enlightenment does the same. It transcends our best guesses.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via PsychedelicsIm happy for you. Keep going dude.
Leo’s direct teaching is that is is about state chasing. He’s said this many times, so Im not suggesting anything radical.
Yes meditation changes my state. Ive started to enter into states via meditation more powerful than small-medium doses of LSD or mushrooms. But meditation has also facilitated a growing detachment with these states, a clarity around the nature of all experiences and the underlying Being, the underlying “God-ness” of any and all states. Sitting in quiet boredom is starting to feel just as satisfying and divine as having my body dissolve into boundless space.
The fact that Leo and many of the forum are so hung up about increasing one‘s state without holding in equal space the necessity of am equilibrium beyond states, a non-dualiry, is a huge blindspot. Those who are serious about the work will recognize it.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via PsychedelicsI appreciate your point of view, I really do - but I disagree. Only low doses of Salvia "turn you into an object". Large doses simply show you what's beyond infinity. They show you things you aren't ready for. No one is.
I agree, and one day you realize that chasing experiences is your ego's doing to begin with.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via PsychedelicsVery disappointing that Leo is doubling down on this rhetoric.
The short story is, psychedelics are not a complete path. There comes a point where all of the state chasing has to come to an end. There comes a point where the duality between a 5meo god consciousness state and the normal mundane experience collapses. It’s actually pretty fucking simple but an ego who is fixated on states, methods, highs, “muh god-realization,” etc., won’t hear this.
In 10 years, when you’ve slacked off on serious spiritual practice (thousands of hours of silent meditation, contemplation, etc.,) and you still can’t reach these states without drugs, when you still cant recognize the absolute divinity of this very moment, the series meditators will be blissing out on God in any and all states. It is what it is.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via PsychedelicsLol. Yes, three hits of 80x salvia makes all other psychedelics look like children's toys. I don't care what it is, Salvia wipes the floor with it. Please note that I do not recommend taking it.
What Salvia has ultimately shown me is that even this whole God consciousness shtick is just more masturbation. It's a good masturbation but ultimately it's masturbation. If you think the mystery ends at God realization, you don't get it. There is no end to the mystery. There can't be, otherwise it wouldn't be - God.
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Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics
Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics@GreenWoods I disagree that psychedelics wake you up. I disagree even that they are tools. They are simply entities which you choose to interact with, they offer an interesting chat but that's about it.
You're more than this. You're more than even God because even God is a concept. You are beyond concepts, and that's the whole point. And you don't need psychedelics to awaken to this fact. The only real use for psychedelics is when someone is stuck in so much ego concrete that nothing else could possibly ever shake it from that position. In one sense they appear to be useful for our western civilization because we've all strayed so far from the ineffable truth that we sometimes need a stark reminder of our true powers. But this power is yours already, you've just forgotten about it.
Even in Leo's own language, you're the one who's inventing these psychedelics. Do you understand that? You are more powerful than the substance.
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Are psychedelics a Complete Path?
Are psychedelics a Complete Path?@Thought Art You are of course free to form and hold your own opinion.
Mine is that we're watching a slow fall from grace. I used to be a huge fan of Leo because he dug deep into metaphysical subjects that few others have dared to navigate, I enjoy existential philosophy so I enjoyed his content. Ever since he's started touting psychedelics as a means to an end I've become more and more put off by his "teachings". It simply doesn't rub me the right way. I've done extremely potent psychedelics. Nothing anyone could ever say would convince me that what I experienced on Salvia can be surpassed by any substance in this world. And yet I've come to a conclusion that psychedelics are a distraction. They're not what you think they are. They're not here to awaken you. In fact they will confuse you in the long run. This is why it's important to hang up the phone once you get the message, because otherwise you'll be stuck glued to the phone, and you'll never realize the truth for yourself.
Personally - and this is my own personal take, take it or leave it - I believe that "God realization" is ultimately just another distraction. If you were truly God realized you would simply kill yourself because there's nothing else to do. The real deal is the endless mystery of it all. This is painted beautifully in this Zen saying:
You may wish to ask where the flowers come from, but even the God of Spring doesn't know.
This implies even God is clueless.
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Are psychedelics a Complete Path?
Are psychedelics a Complete Path?I agree with @Consilience. Psychedelics can jailbreak your mind, but only temporarily. The steady flame, where you are free from suffering regardless of circumstances, is developed through meditation. Drugs can show you what is possible, but they are incapable of keeping you there. Swimming upstream requires integrity, courage, and resolve. There is no shortcut to the other shore.
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Are psychedelics a Complete Path?
Are psychedelics a Complete Path?Psychedelics alone are not a complete path, no. Particularly once we directly experience just how ridiculously we can increase our consciousness through sober practice. Anyone saying meditation can’t take you to god realization is someone who lacks direct experience with meditation. It will take thousands of hours practice to reach psychedelic levels of consciousness while sober, but a couple things: 1) The benefits are enormous, 2) There’s a sovereignty, unity, and power associated with being able to access these states without chemical augmentation, 3) There’s a compound, exponential return on investment with meditation - in other words, 0 - 1000 hours is going to look VERY different than 1001 - 2000 hours, will look VERY different than 9001 - 10000 hours. Meditation “progress” is non-linear, meditation progress is exponential, particularly in the long run.
Psychedelics show what is possible, but truly, the highest level of understanding is embodiment. Psychedelics unfortunately cannot do that.
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yoga vs stretching
yoga vs stretchingYoga, in the physical practice aspect of it, is a manipulation of mind. This is because the poses (asanas) were designed to serve as a tool to let go of conceptual activities such as thoughts, beliefs, assumption and so on.
For example, if someone had rough childhood in which he was bullied by other kids, this could give rise to assumptions such as "The world is a dangerous place" or "I am not capable of protecting my self". This, in turn, may motivate the self to embrace natural defensive tactics such as contracted shoulders or forward bent back/neck. This may also cause shortness of breath or other contracted areas in the body-mind.
Proper practicing of asanas of breathing will gradually nibble thought patterns and the body movements that accompany them. This is why it is crucial not to use push or pull to enter into an asana, and not to hold your breath for entering or maintaining some pose. The asanas are to be practiced by gradual relaxation of the mind that cause the tension in the relevant posture, while maintaining steady breath throughout the practice.
Another example are balancing pose. Those usually require focus and concentration, due to the adjustments that are needed to hold the pose (for example: handstand, headstand, crow, half moon and many more). If a practitioner of yoga doubt his ability to maintain a balancing pose, or suffers from "monkey mind", then the activity of mind will affect his ability. Practicing regularly allows one to relinquish the mind from the body.
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How is stage red viewing stage green and yellow people
How is stage red viewing stage green and yellow peopleThey will view Green as pussies, weaklings, SJWs, unrealistic, detached from "the real world", people to take advantage of, victims.
I think they will view Yellow as elitists. But mostly they won't understand where yellow people are coming from. They will hear yellow people speak and think it's just intellectual waffle. Too abstract.