Fleetinglife

Putin issued and approved a Presidential decree in Moscow for the recognition of Donestsk and Luhansk People's Republics as independent states on the claimed Ukranian sovereign territory and mostly recognised international borders, however even if those states there in Eastern Ukraine operated as independent administrations from the Ukrainian state from 2014 up until this point the problem with their recognition is the territorial claim they purport to have as previously short lived independent republics well into the Ukranian territory, if they were maybe recognised and granted more autonomy and independence as autonomous regions within Ukraine via Minsk Agreements then fine it could have been perhaps worked out peacefully and with negotiations with the Ukranian state, but to claim they are independent states poses a problem since their territorial reaches claim goes well into the sovereign territory of the Ukrainian state and perhaps poses an invite and a pretext for Russian troops to military assist them and invade Ukraine in the East in the territorial reaches they claim belongs to those republics historically or currently politically wise. In other words it seems the unfortunate triumph of ethnopolitics over multi-ethnic, multi-national democratic republics. BTW Thanks to @Knowledge Hoarder for sharing this few weeks old prognostic analysis by Binkov Military Analysis Channel, since this seems unfortunately the most likely scenario now of the course of events happening, it seems hard to imagine now that the Russian military will stand idly by if the pro-Russian separatist and rebel leadership demands and ask for assistance in the military push through and the establishment of their sovereignity in contested Ukranian territory they claim historical and political territorial reach to.

Ukraine is a flawed democracy even by Democracy Index and European standards. It is one of the most corrupt and poorest countries in Europe by GDP per capita. It's incestuous current political elite bans and silences opposition candidates that disagree on or oppose it's Ukranianization policies, banning and disinsentivizing the Russian langague as one of the official languages of the country, revision of controversial Ukrainian nationalist historical figures and events in the countries history, interpretation and reinterpretation of historical events and a complete breakaway and wiping away of it's Soviet past and traditions and baning Communist Party of Ukraine candidates to run in any of the national elections of the country.

At least if these guys were like Buzz Hargrove in the 90's actually protesting and organizing and declaring general strikes in the sector over rising oil prices and slowing down and effectively blocking traffic by directing truckers via the Canadian Auto Workers Unions to drive their trucks at 20mph at Canadian highways in colons and en masse before being threatened to be intercepted and perhaps shot by Canadian National Guard members if they don't stop and sit to negotiate with the Canadian government then led by then turned Liberal Jean Chretien, former leader of Bloc Quebecois Quebec party, my dad remembers that when he was in Canada and where there were also a national uproar over those strikes and protests but those were caused by legitimate serious economic strifes and grievances these more in turn seem more like they are caused by infantile whimsical notions of freedoms and rights in order to throw fits like children not getting what they want and having a reality check on the world not being what they imagine it or fantasise of being like and about and how it functions.

I will be brutally honest with you with my impressions of this, since I read the whole thing you carefully wrote. Appreciate the first try effort, but my dude the way this is phrased and sounds more like a HOI, Total War Rome 2, RTS power fantasy masquerading to be an actual attempt at a political analysis prognosis of geopolitics. One last jab, you summoned the megalomaniac aspects and fantasy elements of your acc name inspiration pretty well when writing and composing this. No, Putin is no Caesar, The Dneiper is no Rubicon, and no he won't proclaim himself dictator of the expanded Russian Federal Republic in July ( of all months ???) this year tbh with you my dude.

2/10/2022 11:12 PM Contemplation and Brief 20 Minute Meditation Session Insight: Insight 1: People tell stories to other people, sometimes that primary concerns their current identity and the survival tied to it, that sound way scarier, emotionally heavy, hopeless, and depressing than they are in actual reality when experienced and seen sensually and experientially of how they actually look and what they actually seem like being in empirical, not idealistic, the cognitive image generated reality by the other person, in one's mind: example a story about what a friend's parents where actually accentuated and described in reality with very specific qualitative markers as being like (from the perspective of specific instances of their relationship with the person telling that person and describing to it first hand) versus the actual reality what those persons seem and feel like to the other person when directly experientially, sensory meeting them for a brief moment at firsthand experience. Insight 2: One must go through experiencing all aspects of a reality that he closed himself off or repressed himself to for moments, periods in his life because one cannot be anything else than the whole sum of his perceived experiences generated in one's mind and given consistency - there lies the path of ultimate True self-acceptance and understanding of the depth of reality that he is living in and it's delicate ultra-complex and fragile interconnectedness and interdependence. There is no self but the True Self, is there? But one must first know what he means by self and True self, to himself... There were more but I can for some reason remember what they were now of the bat...maybe I will remember and resurface and dig them out again tomorrow. Edit Insight 3: Some people here (in the "real" physical world, not on this online forum specifically) often project their perceived and felt relationships with other people onto their seemingly very real, and emotional constructed image (not self-consciously done if course but unconsciously to kept the survival of their current identity intact and emotionally protected, shielded) what those people actually are like and how they are and what their characteristics as a person actually is with them as person at their core - needless to say that is an extremely self-biased and self-favoritism way of seeing things and seeing other people and them in a relationship with you... that's all for now of what I just had a personal insight of when casually having seemingly self-arrived and spontaneous thoughts on this topic.

30/12/2021 ''The mentality of most people here in the region of the world where I spent my life is like that of floating uncultivated raw debris carried forward by the tides of history and a sunflower turning towards the Sun in a mostly half-hearted and unfinished attempt to mimic the Spirit of the Others carrying forward and innovating human and civilizational progress, yet what sets these people apart in their unprivileged position from the rest of the so-called centers of civilizational progress, is that when they are educated, actualized and cultivated enough they gain the unique ability to see through all the inconsistencies, hypocrisies, fictions and contradictions also contained within the unfolding, development and current reality of this 'story', but the tragedy of it that they were only briefly and now God knows for how long until again able to construct their own patched together civilization, though still semi-dependent and semi-developed in contrast to it, in an attempt to construct something uniquely theirs through the insight of those who were educated and enlightened enough too first gain the insight about the authenticity and dormancy of the awakening of their actual collective self being in the region and tre nature of its relation to those very same 'beacons of civilization' outside the region''

Neither did I, but from some of my research, I became more aware that with everything that unfolded in ex-Yugoslavia it was Serbian nationalism, the rise of Milosevich, and the Kosovo question problems with the Albanian people there, act against their leaders and people there and their status and rights that were the first domino in the domino effect that leaders and people in other republics just kept reacting to and reinforcing the intensity of the reaction to each other to in a vicious mutual, interdependent cycle out of fear and worry for the future of their own republics and people there, that the socialist Yugoslav system was hijacked and being used to achieve something else which it was not supposed to and started breaking some of its core principles that it was founded and agreed upon all sworn upon to respect and uphold in order to save people's cooperation, understanding, tolerance, inter-ethnic mixing and unity for the only benefit of people from all of the republics while it was blossoming and working. I as someone who is defined as a Serb by the citizenship, socially, culturally and to a degree exploring self-referentially and understandingly to what aspect I myself also comprehend and understand myself and my position and role in the world as that respect that you shared a part fo your story this openly and honestly with me and I also want to apologize on the part of the soil I share here with my countrymen for all the intense pain, fear, suffering and trauma yourself and your loved ones, people you might have endured and have been caused by it ? - I became more recently aware the effect that initially the reawakening and resparking of Serbian nationalism had for the whole region, as a Serb, the initial domino effect as someone who lives in the country where it was advocated and spread uncritically and one-sidedly that try myself not get uncritically pulled in by the shadow aspects of my instincts and biases that I need to work on, though I never truly identified with deeply on a personal level even during my adolescence.

@aurum "The US has a culture of strong national pride. This nationalism has allowed us to unify as a country and enhance our survival, but at the long-term cost of low introspection. Many Americans are not very open to critiques of America, regardless of their legitimacy. This is the whole battle between the left and the right. The left, being more conscious, wants to move beyond nationalism and is more open to genuine self-reflection. They see critiquing America as actually helping to make it better. But the right is less conscious and more interested in preserving nationalism and the narratives that enhanced our survival. Thus, they see the left as “hating” America, but that’s just the ego’s reaction to its survival being threatened. " Well they can start to slowly change that and lessen that identification perhaps by starting to refer to themselves as a form of distinction North Americans rather then the ubiquitous, homogeneous term Americans, that would be a marginal signifier start to lessen their nationalism, and empty signifier and exclusivistic and monopolising the appropriation of the identification with that term of all the peoples who live in the American continents as only that referring to those who are US citizens and the view that they monopolise the term America (and I think it has an effect of a thought-terminating cliche effect in people's minds when they think about other countries on the American continent) and Americans at the behest of other Americans, people who live on the American continent but who are not US citizens (the country/state should maybe renamed and called the United States of North America (USNA) to signal a more finer distinction in terms of its actual geolocation and in terms of other South American and Central American countries having the ability to call themselves American without immediately the first association being the US and to maybe signal a break with the imperialist past towards Latin/South American countries in choosing to stick with included adjective American within the States as to signal a monopoly for the whole of the American continent) name such as South or/Latin Americans and Central Americans regardless of what peculiar nationality those people also are within that umbrella term Latino, Latin Americans. Hey if Macedonia can rename its country North Macedonia, at the behest of the political and historically motivated complaints of its neighbouring countries Bulgaria and Greece, maybe America can too itself to United States of North America, for the South/Latin/Central American countries. BTW sorry for the grammar errors and sentence clarity issues, I wrote this very quickly on my phone without paying much attention to the way I phrased my sentences, in a lot cases now I see in retrospect, incorrectly, and full of errors, though I hope you got the general idea, message, meaning and background of where I was coming from with this within my post, when I saw your post and it reminded me instantly of this contradiction and paradox regarding the US's official full name and how it's citizens refer to themselves ubiquitously Americans, I think it was generally used as rule of thumb to enforce a civic form (rather then an particular ethnic or organic) of nationalism to Immigrants from all backgrounds coming to the US as a way to create solidarity and bonds that way to signal that they participated in creating a country different in some of its core assumptions and nature then the rest of those of whence they came from, though despite other forms of specific toxic group nationalism that emerged within the US political, immigrant and civic nationalism one context, but I think that was a rule of thumb then I don't see now that much of the importance and cruciality of the functionality of its continued use as an exclusive living experience and simple, shared story integration and unifying mechanism and relevance of maintaining it still, especially when other Latin American countries become more powerful, coming soon in the near future when the country and some people living in it might have to start facing with some things from its past.

*Confirmation bias* low bar set.

Thanks for sharing this is an educational introdcutory and basic concepts discussion and good explanation of some of the aspects, ins and outs and elements in the integral way of thinknig about social development of humanity in general and different humans inhabiting different parts of the planet in particular.

"I am already in hell and this is box is my gate to it. In and out" BTW that's Jordan's old fedora right there in the back. "In Hell the soul within it is trapped within this "mess of messes", and the box is already barely sealed by it, so it won't burst from within it, out into the Logos of the world, the best of best of all worlds there exists and will exist. The Great Unclean One. "

There would be no Das Kapital or to the beneficiary of the legacy or our inheritance of the plethora of other socialist, Marxist, communist work either. I think we can only question the degree and qualities of the exploitation required for their coming into existence in contrast to other types of works and what their attempts actually accomplished and achieved in the same relative to their later actual benefits, good sides, development, evolution and progress they yielded for humanity as a whole. But that's only my partial not yet fully developed, matured perspective on it.

So until then, do "the weak must suffer what they must?"

It seems at cursory glance and taking these reports at face value that a form of resurgent nationalism is on the rise backed by Conservative, reactionary military elements with a tacit support of the Russian state via the presence of it's private contractor mercenary groups against French military presence as maintenance of an international peacekeeping force in former colonial countries as a form of guarantee for peace in the region as form of obligation as a former colonial power with former deep cultural ties to it - in a possibly a seen form as France's international extension of safeguarding and guiding said countries with a deep history of it's imposed influence now towards its liberal democratic ideals in a seen new era break from the past of imperial hegemonic dominator politics - denounced in this nationalist backlash as a form of guise or mask for retainment of it's neocolonialist benefits, privelleges, status and influences in the region in the guise if said liberal and international and regional peace and cooperation rhetoric. Well that's at least my two cents and interpretation of what this nationalist backlash seems to be about and like.

Also because he managed to facilitate a pretty wide media space, of how openly various left-wing ideas can be talked about and discussed open-mindedly and without any prejudices and prior assumptions attached to them and made them actually palpable to a very vast and seemingly mostly young audience, mainstreaming some of them to be more freely and acceptably discussed in the wider youth culture to some extent basically and creating a certain microcosm of culture around it, with a much wider reach than some cells where they were being discussed in the past.

I respect Hasan for, intentionally or unintentionally by accident with no detailed prior knowledge, bringing to wider attention and platforming some not well known, heard of, or obscure but very educational YT channels via his reaction streams, and for the ability since it's a live engagement for the chat to explain in detail more of the key things not explained or context is given about the information in the channel's videos and for also serving as a wider platform and big tent introduction into many not so well known leftist youtube creators or left-wingers across the world in general to a vast audience that follows him or people that tune in for time to time. For example Boy Boy Aussie channel (with a creator of South Slav, Balkan descent ) did a live video infiltration expose of the inner culture, functioning and views held within the Arms Dealers Conferences in Australia and bringing to attention the war crimes, utter sadism, and sheer barbarism and cruelty perpetrated by Australian SAS members, which I prior to that video knew nothing about, during the Allied Coalition military presence and occupation on, even disabled Afghan civilians, in Afghanistan, and the extent of the revision, lessening and downplaying of those very serious barabaric war crimes and human rights abuses perpetrated by Australian military special forces servicemen within some of the top circles of the Australian government and weapons dealer culture - for example, one of those Australian SAS members by the name of Benjamin David Robinson has received one of the highest military decorations within the country the 'Victoria Cross' by the Australian government and is still a recipient of it while at the same time being responsible for the murder of a disabled, handicapped Afghan civilian and in visual display of horrendous barbarism, sadism and lack of human empathy making a photograph of himself drinking beer from the man's stolen prosthetic leg of the murdered Afghan civilian, while there were some other Australian SAS servicemen from the same detachment during that time in Aghanistan that did ''reenactments'' of the movie 300, and performed "Leonidas kicks" on questioned and interogated Afghan civlians or POWs from cliffs in Afghanistan, where some of them fell down to their deaths. So it's a nice expose of this chilling and shady government stuff, that Hasan brought to attention by platforming such channels such as his in his reaction and introducing a large audience to still pressing issues of past war crimes such as this one: Other than that I personally don't have time to watch Hasan's full lengthy reaction streams, I just took a look at a few of his cut snippets from some of his streams that I thought, saw, or found interesting, informative, and educational from here and there that nicely introduced me and greatly informed me on the state and functioning of some still going process of some stuff in the world still happening right now and that is allowed to fly not really greatly opposed, socially mobilized around, adequately questioned and criticized to a large extent, and to follow his large audience and follower base chat while doing it which's speed is personally ADHD inducing:

?????? Soul penetrating utter wreckage and annihilation

I think this a matter of definition, since ethnos or ethnia (where the Latin root of the term originates from) broadly means just a group who identify themselves as belonging to and being a part of a group that thinks that they share the same history and historical background, culture, religion or language, and ethnocentrism is a mental assumption and state of mind that group holds that it should only be concerned only about their own group whom they think they belong to and share this same background being only concerned and obsessed about themselves (ethnic narcissism) and the behest, discrimination and exclusion of other groups that are deemed to not share this same background or belong to it. Racialism, as far as I know, that is officially scientifically debunked as psuedo-science, now only remaining a pseudo-scientific untrue assertion that human beings should be categorized, evaluated and typified based on some perceived, arbitrarily chosen and deemed differences in physical appearance, traits and biology existing between them as belonging to "different races" and social hierarchically ordered for the whole of humanity based in terms of the pseudoscienctifically asserted stages in human evolution based only on the perception of those physical differences in order to best explain human evolution on the whole, combined with racism, holding a moral evaluation, judgement and prejudices regarding the existence of this psuedo-scientific social hierarchy typifying different groups of human beings within based only, and exclusively on perceived different physical, biological traits, has proven to be much worse, dehumanizing and more genocidal towards other human beings notion passing briefly under the precipece of European scientific universalism from the times of the Enlightenment to the invention of modern scientific methods from the 19th and 20 centuries for the whole of humanity then any specific (perhaps) etnocentrism in history, perhaps only the German Nazi racial science one which combined all three of these things.

That's racialism when people get typified and categorised based on perceived, often arbitrarily chosen, differences in physical appearance and traits, racism is when there are prejudices, biases, moral judgements, moral assumptions and stereotypes formed around these perceived differences. In other words, racism is a mental state of mind one manifests or has regarding these perceived, chosen differences, therefore an often incoherent ideological - ism contained within the term.

Racism can exist, not just exist but flourish unquestioned and unconsciously, within an ethnocentrist paradigm and culture, where the racial discrimination is done based on how a racial minority within that society differs in physical appearance and perceived different physical traits tied to some assumptions about their culture or collective group mentality that is seen to differ to what is the imposed norm of the ethnic majoritarian, ethnic supremacist group that monopolizes power of what is to be defined as a dominant culture within that diverse group society. I would say that racism there is precisely worse and more discriminatory because ethnic obsession, narcissism, chauvinism and hate directed towards other ethnic groups trickles down to a minority racialized group who is then in term even more discriminated and disempowered by all the unstable, hateful, discriminatory energy floating around. The racialization of them is of course done to by the ethnic in-group purity obsessed and gatekeeping deeply insecure majoritarian ethnic group. In fact, I would say that more a society is ethnocentric and ethnonarcisstic towards itself the more racism and racial discrimination begins to be inseparably intertwined in the mix of already existing discriminations that that ethnic majoritarian group uses to define themselves in an lost cause attempt in opposition to others and single itself out based on those manufactured, artificial, and often in reality arbitratly existing differences. That's I would say that these societies, until they collectively break out through development from this paradigm, have even more deeper and hidden racism and racial discriminatory energies under the surface than the one we are currently seeing being adrressed, questioned, combated and dealt with within post-colonial or post-internal-colonial first world ones.

"That same Europe, where they were never done talking with humanity, never stopped proclaiming that they were only anxious for the welfare of humanity. Today we know with what sufferings humanity has paid for every one of their triumphs of the mind. Based on colonisation, exploitation, slavery and violence, European humanism dehumanises. And so “We must find something different." - Franz Fanon, the Martiniquan born psychiatrist, committed Algerian revolutionary and Pan-African thinker - "On the hidden psychopathology of the colonizer"

Racism is, a part from being an overt prejudice and an in-group and out-group bias one holds, mostly unconsciously embodied phenomena of being a part of system that benefits from the existence of some sort of social hierarchy along racialized lines where one group exercises supremacy over all others in the social privelleges they have in the system and positions that they hold and are more prone to be available to them from my experience, this only more true in ethnic majoritarian states or ethnostates that define themselves as much of being founded and belonging to a majority group in them hogging all the relevant influential and positions of power within it. I live in what can be termed a white ethnostate claiming the name of only one ethnic majority people that live in it, that was re-founded and maintains its distinct identity precisely through the opposition against other ethnic majority groups and cultures not of that ethnic group's ones in the region, and so do they do the same, a mutually reinforcing national and ethnic exclusion vicious cycle, also internally it can be said to be a white supremacist state because only people from that ethnic group or culturally, ethnically converted into that ethnic group (so they don't suffer discrimination, prejudices and ethnic hate directed towards them as prior members of a minority ethnic group descendants within the country) hog all and mostly in the majority of cases positions of power, prestige and influence within the nations population and societies taken as a whole (where are there are few exceptions and cases to the contrary perhaps in some areas I am really not much aware of a lot of examples, perhaps few here and there, and haven't really heard about a lot of them). The reason why I am saying all this is that ethnic discrimination and racism that people here display is so deeply ingrained within their in-group bias and strong individual identification with their own group that they belong that is mostly unconsciously done, repeated, imitated and parroted without much awareness given to it, almost as a taken granted social, cultural norm not given much thought, it is not so much as always overt discrimination but more of the prejudices and biases being reinforced through the use and repeat of specific discriminatory language and terminology, for example the POC people here called the Roma, that are present as racial, ethnic minorities in many European states and countries through the continent, are stigmatised and labelled through a derisive term "Gypsies" aimed to single them out and racially and culturally discriminate them as not belonging to any ethnic majority in any of the ethnostates in the region and as being implicitly inferior to them, (as well through racial discrimination through their physical appearance and more darker skin tone and pigmentation then the more melanin filled ?ethnic majority population) and discriminate them as almost subhuman and animal-like in contrast to the majority peoples ethnic group present within any of the ethnostates in the region. So, here the ethnic discrimination (based on language, culture, religion and ethnicity) is also coupled with a very present deeply embodied and omnipresent unconscious racism that the ethnic majority populations harbour without paying much attention to to anyone outside their in-group, in the aspects severee and strong in-group identification on almost a national tribal level, ethnic narcissism, chauvinism, discrimination, in-group and out-group prejudices and stereotypes and coupled with a pretty seveere actual racism, racialism directed towards whose slightly different physical appearance and characteristics from them that might signal belonging and having a background from another ethnic group (Albanians as a national minority and as a neighbouring people's suffer racism based on some typified and stereotypized physical characteristics and traits (even though for all intents and purposes to the outsider they would appear as white and almost the same as other ethnic majorities in the region) that some of the ethnic majority population here thinks signal their "Albanianess" and actual "gene inferiority" and they are called derogatory names based on that (that are ironically and tragicomically taken from their language as terms they themselves use to refer to their people and nation and have been unconsciously imported, used and turned into ethnic slurs in Serbian, the ignorance and the narrow mindedness here is tragicomic sometimes), and this also happened and is still happening with the Muslim Bosniak population here and in the neighboring countries in the region, ethnic discrimination against them based on culture and religion coupled with actual extreme racism bringing up psuedo-scientific, fabricated and invented beliefs and "gene theories" in to the mix, and the open racism Roma people in all countries in the region suffer sometimes purely based on physical appearance and invented notions of their culture. The point of me posting this post is to show in this thread is to provide a snippet that racism, racial biases and prejudices doesn't just exist in post-colonist Western countries but that is actually more omnipresent and taken for granted in countries where there doesn't exist an culture facilitating the questioning and criticizing of the extent of its actual presence and unconscious embodying in a population through an unquestioned maintenance of an ethnic majoritarian, white supremacist system in terms of power, political, social and cultural distribution within that society and how not questioning, criticizing this and centering some action and activism around it actually continues the unquestioned and unconscious supremacy that those belonging and being identified as being a part of the majority benefit in part and more from the maintenance of that system by those of their power representatives who exercise power for the benefit of retainment of that ethnic, white supremacist system so they can keep getting elected from that ethnic majority group that thinks it benefits the most from the maintenance of such a supremacist system and by doing that unconsciously excludes others who don't enjoy the same benefits as being deemed the native population, ethnic and racial majority within the system and effectively disempowers them and marginalizes their social influence and opportunities for social positions and effective pure meritocratic social ladder climb within that society because of these imposed implicit ethnic barriers, existing racial, cultural stereotypes and prejudices and imposed social handicaps and majoritarian supremacist assumptions. That's my two cents on the universality and widespreadness of racism issues existing often unconsciously embodied within societies reproduced by systems that benefit from them in some shape and form in and some populations that buy into them in the first place until there is a push for wider systemic reforms and social, cultural changes.

I just noticed that, but I didn't personally bother looking in detail at the way Al Jazeeras report was worded since I looked at AFP and assumed, looks like rather quick to guess and prematurely, that they reported the event in the same way, now I see mishap in wording of the Al Jazeeras report where it can be ambivalently interpretated and came to the conclusion of different course of the events happening by reading at it face value. MB for not paying more close attention to all the things and news posted in the thread, thanks for pointing this out and calling into attention that it was framed intentionally or unintentionally, by honest mistake or not almost like misinfo at the begining of the report, probably because of Al Jazeeras fast unclear wording here a person can come at the different conclusions of what happened from the report.

Nobody is/was spuning or spreading that version of the story or narrative here as I am aware of, the facts of how the situation unfolded were clear from the start of the thread where the news was posted. The analogies were solely being used to ask and dwell more deeply on the questions to the meta problems in the way these issues are being framed, decided, normativized and advertised to be dealt with exclusively while forgetting to ask some deeper questions on the label of 'terrorist' onto other human beings, the concept of 'terrorism' and the deeper roots why such problems arise and why/what are some of the more underlying motivations and conceptions of the world and other human beings within in it that 'labeling' in them such a thought-terminating cliche, fear-driven ways with moral righteousness fanfare atmosphere always accompanying the celebration of the death of such figures, that seems is more self-image management, righteous self-approval and survival-oriented other than anything else.

Again, in this absolutist, dualistic mutually exclusive way of framing things, do or do not do, die, action for action's sake or inaction, fight or capitulate, win or defeat and so on and so on a more root cause of the issue and a possible more nuanced approach will always be missed that will possibly yield more results simply because of the more invested and long term efforts it requires. For starters, you can stop, by using this analogy as a suggested example, of leaving food in the kitchen where you are dining and not cleaning it and keeping it a mess not knowing where the food pieces that you drop fall down to, that attracts these that you deem 'pests' in the first place (that messy and dirty kitchen where you dine being the cooperative exporters and baptizers of some of these fundamentalist ideologies and through the infiltrated Islamic school madrasas through some other countries in the region with these fundamentalist interpretations and ideologies and their preachers in the first place such as the KSA, your food being their oil and these food pieces being the prior US financing and unregulated money flow to of some these groups and leaders in the first place for past instrumentalist purposes). What the US Department of State and some other European countries governments that had problems with Islamic minority immigrants in them, started lately over the past years doing was funding and financing via the help and backing some oppositional Islamic figures and leaders in exile there (Turkey's Guillane for example), to raise funds for madrasas in Africa and in the Middle East that started teaching a more moderate and modern version of Islam pertaining to the particularities of each one countries version of the religion, so that's a start in a long term investment, effort, and more conscious approach to the problem that was helped being exacerbated by them over the decades and given more justification and more motivation for existing with their past actions and moves in the region in the first place. Up until this point, this has been mostly on the surface clean-up duty on the mess they helped themselves and provided the right conditions, excuses, and justifications in making, with not really as of yet thoroughly scrapping under it. How about setting up conditions to facilitate the transition where there are no people becoming or being defined loosely on the whole as 'terrorists' and/or not allowing the perpetual continuation and facilitation of conditions where they feel drawn to become one or being defined, sometimes often unfoundedly, as one, so their perspective and its relevance can be fully negated and not taken into account completely as being one belonging to a human being - ''we don't negotiate with terrorists'' seems like no longer a sustainable, efficient option and strategy anymore of dismissing these people's perspective and backgrounds of where they are coming from and how they are forming them and how unconsciously in denial or lessening the helping and aiding of fostering the perpetual continuation of reproduction of such conditions in aiding the development of such backgrounds that those people are coming from are those that claim no inkling of responsibility or otherwise willing to invest in solutions for a more holistic remedies to the problems who's facilitation they helped cause, since each of it's head that is cut it seems that two more grow out of it like a hydra from the Greek mythology, but instead of just eliminating and killing them why not invest in and help this by educating yourself in learning about the conditions that are unconsciously fostered that claim that they have or share no responsibility to the rise of them as a problem and ''burn'' the past condition away from where they were allowed and hence it was prosperous for them to rise forth. Also not immediately jumping to labeling define a lot of very different people as 'terrorists' due to personal insecurities and fears in any given situation when it is seen fit, unjustifiably and instrumentally to one's own feelings, will maybe shrink the number of ''terrorists'' that exist in your's and some other's people heads - since you can't be terrorized by what you don't fear or someone that you don't fear or know what it actually is, why it is that it is, just a helpful suggestion from me of how I have overcome this problem in my mind by questioning unquestioned holding taken for granted moralistic assumptions and judgments around it in my head and lessen my fear of being an unsuspecting victim of fear over an unquestioned concept of terrorism in my mind.