Fleetinglife

"Evil resides in every gaze which perceives Evil all around itself" - G.W.F. Hegel I would advise you as person who cares for people to be honest and not self-deluding themselves into telling fancy tales and wishful thinking stories to themselves to serve the selfish survival of their very limited and narrowly concerned, caring and empathetic egoes about other people and the world around them to get a grip on a wider reality, outside their little national bubble, on this issue and position yourself actually so you are throughly grounded in it's existential actuality and can start seeing things more clearly and not in these deeplh selfish and self-serving constructed dualties that serve no others purpose but to shield one's limited, selfish little ego from uncomfortable experiences and stories coming from other people and places of this massive, ever expanding world into infinity and infinite complexity. Ever narrowing contraction into one's little ego, national bubble due to the magnitude and unpredictabilty of the coming of wave of the experiences going outside this little narrow self-interested zone that don't align with it's wishful thinking stories and desired beliefs about the world, how it works and other people, and their behaviour, character and role in it. One would be much perhaps surprised and happier about the diversity and richness of the differienting if the experiences existing in it if one's leaves this narrowky constructed shell one made to shelter his little ego's desire and avoidance of uncomfortable and often shocking experiences that don't allign with one's comforting and often delusional beliefs about oneself and wider the world around him, outside his little peninsular nation. Don't take this a deliberate personal snipping out of sadistic joy to make fun of one's perceived flaws in character and personality, but rather as a kind hearted, good intended advice from a perceived outsider, that wants to see one overcome and adress his perceived unconscious flaws and live a more happier and better life for himself by being more open to various experiences of people around him, coming from various places of this very rich and diverse world in differing of experiences, perceptions, and opinions regarding things, and voice existing outside the little, seemingly hardly enveloped shell who's insides looking from should not be mistaken and projected as the whole world looking as such from its dark interior and often seeping light within who generates shadows of the outside world that should not be mistaken for the real thing - as Plato in his Allegory of the Cave attempts to teach us in order for us to eventually leave the cave and experience the outside of the world for the first time, where the shadows in the cave came from, as it actually is and feels like more. This one wishes to point to the other one, that counter-intuitevely from his own experiences he will be actually more happy, accepting and grateful for himself, life and it's experiences, once he starts to leave his own constructed cave where counter-intuitevely makes him feel safe in himself and obsessed over himself but actually trapped in it and miserable for expanding his consciousness, open mindedness and views making him in fact very fragile and unsafe for various unpredictable experiences that might happen that only exists as caricature shadows in the cave and were never felt as and experienced as real, which might come to the person burrowed upon his ego's cave as a shock and unbearable experience when they actually experience them for the first time and they dawn and descend upon them in actuality for the first time, maybe perhaps even in their lives. But this person for one, wants to see the other slowly be accepting of the possibility that he is in fact in a cave of his own making and that is in fact possible to start realising one needs to eventually and can leave it at any time for the wider actual reality outside and it's experience, for this person has already has been in one and knows how it is unfulfilling, unreal and fake and how it feels better, good a d more fulfilling when one attempts to actually leave it and risk experiencing more reality as it as and not as one hopes, holds on and wants it to be - since one the great relief and liberation after abandoning that one pesky little notion, and not worth it only for safety wise at the cost of actually experiencing and living life limiting, learned helplessness belief ?? Start spreading your wings hawk and actually feeling what flying feels like and looking at the world from below, and not how one imagines flying to be and feel and look like and the world below to look like from that flying simulation imagined fantasy - I know because I started doing it, and I therefore if I, this one not so important for the whole world human can do it, there is no reason why you can't as well, or any other human anywhere in the world can't start it for that matter. If I can do it, there is no reason why you can't do it as well ???

@tsuki Sorry for not answering right away. I was busy with somethings regarding info relaying to some of my friends. I would not say it's overtly present in this one, where he mostly speculates based on some economic data on the possible repercussions of this for politics around the globe and the ré-alignment and re-structuring of the global economy as whole on some different basis because of this. This one I see as an honest attempt at speculation and prognosis based on the info and the data that he has. Though again he cast at the end a pretty dire prognosis for Russia coming out of this based on some central bank reserve currency data that he has, that we can't be sure it will come about that way, the way those more optimistic and cheerleading about it to go that way as result hope it to be, we don't know in what period of time Russia might stock up on digital sovereign Chinese reserve currency avoid the hardest blowback to them from this, if they in the end decide to cut them from the American led Swift payment system, I am not sure analysts like him and elsewhere in the West my have full knowledge of Russian states capabilities or something up it's sleeve to avoid this, given the overconfidence and recklessness in which they planned this invasion and reached a consensus in carrying it forward it seems for a long time in advance and decided to go forth with this invasion, but I have noticed this consistent thread of anti-Russia biases in his videos and taking more pro-NATO and pro-US ones in each relevant situation involving it, that seems more to favorably center "his people more" and nation that he currently resides in. His livelihood was not at stake at that one at all, he was siting pretty comfortably near the Azeri city of Shirvan, near the Caspian lake/sea, hence channel name, a bit south from the capital Baku where the invasion was planned and directed from reaching to the south-west of the country in the Nagorno-Karabakh autonomous region and border area with Armenia, so his livelihood was in a pretty good, one would say favorably profitable for it's betterment from that position where he was located in and who was he more advocating for, as the result of that conflict, and in terms of safety matters at the time being at the side of the invading, war-starting country looking at the far east from its actual fighting and invasion and people impacted and hit by it, that one could say he slightly profited from a bit on regards to his channel ads and views and position he took in that conflict, if only perhaps you mean his "economic livelihood" of the ad profit for one side he generated and that jumped for him during it after that war and his analysis re-aligning with his own governments stance on the issue.

Caspian Report gives you a brief detailed cover of all the potential ramifications of the war on potentially the the economy, surge of prices, international changes of stances, strategies and potential wider international political ramifications for stability in other problematic regions of the globe etc. But I would only advise to people to take his supposed objectivity and neutrality with a grain of salt since I stopped watching all his content regularly as more as I did before and taking his forwarded neutral credibility seriously when the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and war broke out between Armenia and Azerbaijan in November 2020 (and I think I presented an almost identical and very similar analysis and criticism of the neutrality and objectivity of his channel when it comes to it's geopolitical content analysis because of that on this very old thread section on the forum back then two years ago from my old and different account), and he started slightly cheering on and misinforming and disinforming about the the Azeri side (as he is Azerbaijani) and the Armenian losses and casualties in the conflict, didn't criticize Turkey for it's involvement and painted in a different light then was the consensus in the international humanitarian organisations then. He showed his nationalistic utilitarian light in that conflict shining through, his tacit cheerleading and complacency of Turkey as NATO members shady, questionably internationally legal and geopolitical involvement there, because it served Azeri interests, his clearly detectable personal bias and dislike against Russia, which he showed at the beginnings of his channel, as an Azeri having conflicting interests with Armenia who Russia supports and his country being the former part of the Soviet Union's republics, and the uncritical sometimes cheerleading on his channel in some episodes of everything that might serve the Azeri interests, from Turkey, NATO to Washington, not mentioning honestly some of the key missing details in the whole narratives and stories involving them and sometimes openly just if it serves to undermine Russia globally and geopolitically, and maybe position Azerbaijan better geopolitically. He didn't show the moral scorn and concern for repercussions of war in the way that he did in this videos tonality with the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict where it was easily detectable that he was very favoritistically oriented, biased and even slightly cheerleaded on one side in the war, that of his own nation, and it's questionable past pretexts and justification to declare war to Armenia, attack, and invade take the territory from the Nagorno-Karabakh (self-declared Republic of Artsakh in Armenian parts) autonomous region by force, superior military might and quantity of high-tech weapons and drones and regional support by Turkey, while Russia at the time couldn't affirmed to be involved but instead acted as one of the representatives and arbiters in conducting peace talks for deploying a limited peacekeeper force of it's own troops to a buffer zone between the new territorial borders drawn out between countries in that autonomous region after the war was finished, for it to advance it's own plans for wider regional influence and dominance (so-called Alliances and Unions between Turkic peoples with Turkey at the center, most powerful leader and lynchpin of those international alliances) and incorporate it directly into Azerbaijan and it got help in that from Turkey, looking out for its own interests in being a more than few decades now traditional ally to Azerbaijan that fits that Turkic alliance bill, from that in attack drones, as Ukrainians also got, where he showed no detectable shock and outrage and instead painted it more as a justifiable war of opportunity, from his side whose concerns and history that he choose to tilt it in the favor of overrepresenting and taking more of a supportive and justification stance towards the Azeri side in those videos POV, for past unsolved issues and should we now also give him the benefit of the doubt that he is also an unbiased bystander and commentator, with no favoritism, some biased incentives to paint this in a certain way and frame it in this conflict as well, in the way he presents the factographics he talks about in the video and directs them towards a certain conclusion to the viewer. A slight degree of double standards and hypocrisy, in contrast to the way he choose to present his coverage, commentary and analysis of Nagorno-Karabakh war, in a more nationally triumphalistic and war of opportunity form, in which his own country was directly involved and was in opposing interest to the Russian side which supported Armenian interests. His channel could have been detected by a more acute observer to have a layered geopolitical anti-Russia agenda and anti-Russian bias to it in the way he frames political issues involving it in some way in his videos. It just goes to show that geopolitics is not an impartial field it goes with a lot of personal biases and presumptions of how you choose to frame and present certain factographics and in the way you want drive conclusions to the viewer to have about them and regarding them

I would not to say it is not at all to due with the suspicion of it violating too graphic warnings on YT and it's taking down on that basis of that not following YT TOS that way but because starting from February the 22nd and the Russian military regime change operation invasion and unfolding military onslaught in Ukraine they started day by day, with the escalation of conflict and war going on in Ukraine, there was day by day imposed sanctions and embargoes put on one Russian goods, service or company after another, because of the war, on all the Russian based companies, service providers or products on most Western markets and or any countries using especially US parent company owned digital platforms as service providers on the internet as part of a general embargo on all Russian goods and services because of the war, similarly how German goods and services were distimulated an disincentivesid on and from American and British markets during the duration of and entering of each country into WWII, but this seems currently to be on a much bigger, radical scale then maybe even possibly then because, as you know some US based companies such as IBM, kept their businesses with and exports going to Nazi Germany, as well some German based companies could export to Britain and America, such as Fanta, even during the start of the war, Britain first and then afterward Americas later involvement and at it's closing end.

Seems like currently RT is no longer available in Serbia as a service provider on YouTube, I can't access the video posted and shared here in this thread by @Yog to illustrate and showcase the civilian, ecological, economic infrastructure and mental additional and added collateral cost of NATO intervention bombing in Serbia and Kosovo from YouTube. Looks like they banned/sanctioned it from all US based/ or owned digital platform companies currently.

@Max1993 My all the souls of the deceased and fallen one day live through us, and of those who come after us. God bless you and your dad, and I wish you my grandfather's and his families luck in surviving from his first uninvited war from his childhood years to his last post-retirement voluntary dutiful war as a volunteer officer and soldier in defence of his father and his and his late wife's and my grandfather's childhood home, field and land, before he retired from the military and much later from then moved on to another physical realm and plane of existence more peacefully and went away from us, to bless you and your father's luck in going through this and surviving this both unscathed and as better, more mature, loving and stronger people and humans, that is my and my families past wish for and onto you and your father and your family: God bless and speed to your homeland, family, friends, loved ones and people and may they live and be victorious forever through you and your friends, loved ones and people Glory, justice and righteousness to all those innocent and good souls who have fallen, may the live through us, our deeds and those that come after us:

At least Germany received the bulk of the American led then Marshall Plan (though to be fair Yugoslavia also received a small part of it, after it rejected the Soviet demands and control for decision-making in structuring it's post-war economy along the same lines the Soviet Union industrialised itself and which led to the Informbureau crisis and it's distancing from the Eastern /Warsaw pact Bloc and it's non-aligned status, though still promoting socialism/communism in other such countries, during the majority of the Cold War) and it and Japan received a lot of US investments priority in their economies in their already then dozen million people economies under the post war US/IMF/WB led Bretton Woods system for development, that they already recovered in a couple of years, West Germany surpassed it's pre-war peak Nazi Germany economy already in the mid to late 1950s and 1960s and Japan did so in the 1970s before after they achieved enough solid growth and development that model was scrapped and they transitioned to the neoliberal model to further enlarge, grow and develop their economies. FRY at that time or only Serbia later, as a the only country left, was almost eight to ten times smaller than those both countries economies in comparison at that comparative time and now even more a hundred dozen, got nothing even miniscule of sort of the scale of that aid package even adjusted for the scale and nature of it's own economy, instead it was treated almost in the same way militarily defeated as Nazi Germany, even after the deposition of Milosevich, and presented regionally as such and advertised as such to it's neighbours, after the horrors of the war start to surface and dawn to people, in order for them to quickly find away to distance themselves from her under any means and pretext possible, even cast away or reinvent/revision it's past historical and cultural ties with it, in order to avoid the bad PR of association with it, in the way the NATO bombing campaign was presented and framed to the international media and press, and top of all that instead of offering to the country something to try and integrate it into the EU and Western security architecture, it got wide-scale privatization and austerity in return in attempt to restructure it's whole economy from the scratch and remove almost all traces of state and public ownership of its major industries and economic enterprises from the socialist times and pack it up with several times the increased debt from loans it had to take in order to repair it's utterly wrecked economy from all the sanctions, wars and bombardment, under the neoliberalization reform programs, from the IMF than the Yugoslav times and then again got another blow and it's political isolation and instability reinforcement move to it's EU/perhaps maybe even NATO membership prospects in the near future with the whole Kosovo thing, and it's unilateral recognition of its territorial and sovereign independence declaration after the 90's war in the mid/late 2000s. Basically, to sum it up, a relatively small, not very developed, modernised, culturally significant, important and industrialised country for and in Europe of some several million peoples at the same time got internationally hyped and treated and also in the regional political sphere as militarily defeated Nazi Germany with it's political isolation, bias towards it and condemnation with no significant or highly interested post-war effort to invest into restructuring it's economy, integrate into wider European markets and economies and in it's pacification culture in order for it not be longer or have a risk of becoming a regional threat again with it's greater power nationalism and at the same time economically treated, since it was for some reason lumped in together late in 2000 the same as an ex-communist Eastern Bloc countries completely economically wise in prescriptions for it's recovery and restructuring downplaying it's already pre-existing market socialist element which existed already to a degree in it's economy, with wide-scale privatization, austerity and loans as the economically and ideologically defeated Soviet Union, so what can one reasonably expect to get with that level of effort, concern and level of interest for and in a country? Well a very dangerous future cocktail not able to successfully transition into reforming without a major backclashes, set backs and regression and grabbing the first opportunity possible it gets to reinstate it's power internally and regionally whereever and whenever it gets the opportunity, after that downfall, decline and trauma from the 90's, fueled and supported by the revanchist, anomistic, nihilistic and irredentist feelings of it's own average, ordinary impoverished working and/or regular middle class citizens that feel a sense of naive, yet honest national solidarity and duty in a relatively large to reasonable majority regarding and towards the transition from and to this post-war order, easily manipulable and put into use by the usual suspects bad faith opportunistic actors with presence, cred and influence gained from the previous wars trying now to rebrand themselves to be more palpatable to the general public and internationally but essentially holding onto a more revised, modified version of ideology they already had and believed from the war time and now seeking to use it more opportunistically, calculated and rationally given their experience of why they think, only on rational, mental terms not emotional ones, it previously failed and didn't work, not wanting to blame and admit their ideology itself for it, it is the only correct, selectively, favoritistically "historically proven true for the country, people or nation" and possible way to structure, guide and construct regional, interstate and international relationships, with of course they think in first their countries and people's as they see it and them putting them first, with their supposedly highest gain, priority and interest for them in mind, not a natural without a hitch successful attempt into a transition of a western style liberal parliamentary democracy that's for sure with all the massive corruption incentivised, initiated, resurfaced, going on floating in it's own economy and coming in from the 90's from and still in part in the present from Russian oligarchs and Belarusian state holders.

Greece was admitted in NATO under a monarchy (monarcho-fascists the Titoites and Khruschevites called them) and later a Western propped up military junta that persecuted communists openly and killed communist students, Turkey also later became a military junta and did the same thing to communist activists and union leaders, and continues to do the same thing to a lesser extent though today to communists or former communists under Erdogan, hence the phenomenas like Hasan Piker today. It almost as if NATO was envisioned at the time to be an anti-communist barrier spreading alliance also. I have not doubt they would admit Pinochet's Chile or the military dictatorship in Brazil in the 1970s or 1980s, if they thought the communist movement phantom Soviet influenced from across the ocean and globe threat within it was large enough to influence those countries labor and student movements in order justify it, that they felt they needed to reinvent NATO Alliance expand admissions onto Latin American countries to deteer the Soviet or Soviet influenced socialists/communist movements threat in them. It is highly doubtful to me that at the year 2000. of the new millennium, when Putin became and was chosen president, after being a prime minister under the most to date US influenced Yeltsin re-election, that the US State Department thought that a fascist oligarchy that they couldn't put and out of principle admit in NATO, because it wasn't a a full pluralistic Western type democracy as of yet, at that time immediately emerged in Russia after Yeltsins departure, that same one, that after listening to the US advisors ordered tanks to fire at the Russian parliament controlled by communists in the 1993s and kept extreme Russian nationalist organisations, like the National Bolsheviks, systematically from grabbing onto any semblance of real power. But hey, I could be wrong, maybe the CIA had some info back then on Putin that he would inevitably turn Russia into an already economic oligarchy controlled country into fascist oligarchy if they dare consider admitting Russia into NATO, and lose it's boogeyman potential for justifying hurriedly admitting other former Soviet controlled EE and close proximity EE countries on after the other on masse on that basis.

I get what you are saying and thanks for the feedback and advice, I will work on writing more clearly and correctly that way in the future, but what I wanted to write and express here hurriedly regarding the view on NATO from some other people and countries perspectives here turned out the way that it did the way my thoughts about the topic and subject came rushing in and I expressed them in the way they turned out to be. I will take your advice to heed and try to phrase them in the way with more periods in between in order for them to be more clear in the future when writing about such types of more complex, layered topics and interconnected issues. Thanks again for the constructive feedback advice for working on better and more clearly phrasing them in the future! Appreciate it! ??

Hope it's more readable and clear know, I've screened whole paragraphs and sentences in whole posts that I made in an attempt to clear away all the grammar and punctuation errors, need to rework on my English expressiveness quick skills writing it seems, but I would also advise to you guys to up your reading comprehension and immersion in the text skills and not doze off and lose your attention and concentration skill so easily when you can't connect instantly the strings of meanings behind immediate coming sentences easily because of a writing expression and grammar error that I made in them, that I afterward need to screen away to correct, and just give up or let go off understanding the whole context and meaning of what was written by giving up on reading the whole post. That's some add and concentration, patience lacking skills there, if I have to be open and put it bluntly.

I just did, as much as I could detect and find where the grammatical errors were made and were it was needed for better and easier reading clarity and comprehension. Thanks for pointing that out, I was of course aiming to revisit since I wrote out such a long, and comprehensive post in the hurry as thoughts came rushing to me about the subject not paying enough heed to a lot of unconscious grammatical errors I made in a hurry along the way. Thanks again for that ??

Did you read the whole of the Wikipedia linked articles that are plentiful in that page of what was the lead up to those events and massacres, war crimes, genocides etc. Are you just going to engage in the triggered out of context, shallow knowledge guilt tripping and shame inducing tactics fed by your training of thinking about those events by consumption of one sided media framing of those events? While not bothering to do any independent thinking, reading or research about those historical events outside that? Come off with a prejudiced, stereotypical assumption that anything I wrote from above was an attempt of war crime revision or genocide denial by a caricature figure you constructed in your mind of projecting onto me your belief of a sneaky ulterior motivé of Serbian ethnonationalism or Ukranian humanitarian atrocities happening right now lessening, denying and/or trolling propagation for the Russian side through the criticism of NATO through the Serb experience I wrote from above. Tell me, what country are your from and who did you vote for in the last election? Mind due with anything you try to explain to me about your decision making, view and prism about that from your living experience on that topic I will link a sourced Wikipedia article or page of perhaps something unrelated about that political party and person in an attempt to call out your imagined ulterior motives that you have regarding that and to create a stereotyped imaged of you as a shady person as well. That is the peak of lazy, negative mind addiction and asinine thinking and distancing oneself sneakily by a repeatition of shallow balkanism stereotypes of people, most of them debunkable and old at this point but repeated and parroted in the media without thinking to the audience about why/how the Balkans have to be underdeveloped, poor and primitive because of these past things in order for them to feel good about themselves and deflect that they have zero complicity or responsibility for that, which can be in fact easily traced, if one bothers to do the research from sources that are not biased towards the narratives of ones official countries story, narrative and interest regarding the region, a non-complete story is told with missing parts, half truths, about the other he is trying to engage in a conversation with, a gaze which sees evil everywhere contains in fact evil in itself which it is so self-biased and self-absorbed to see it clearly, to paraphrase Hegels quote, in the context of what ammounted of what you just attempted in doing here.

What Russian military is now trying to do to Kharkiv is what not long ago, 22 years or so, the NATO air bombing campaign did to villages and cities across Serbia and Kosovo alike. We know today that the aim was not just the targeting, neutralizing and elimination of key strategic and economic infrastructure that helped and provided assistance for the goals of the regime in FRY Serbia, effectively controlled and appropriated by ethnonational communist usurper and dictator Slobodan Milosevich, and operations and war effort Army of Yugoslavia (Serbian military) effectively in large part under the control of army personnel and staff loyal to him against the Kosovar Albanian insurgency and it's attempt of persecution and ethnic cleansing of Serbian minority there living in Kosovo via KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) and the, UN and ICTY tribunal recognised, joint criminal enterprise of war crimes, atrocities, ethnic cleansings, attempt of culturocide of Albanian and Ottoman Islamic cultural heritages present in Kosovo and genocidal instances carried out mostly by the Serb conscripts and recruits in the mostly at the time Serb filled Army of Yugoslavia but also, not at small or insignificant and not less brutal part, carried out against the Serb minority in Kosovo by ethonationalist and Albanian supremacist KLA insurgents, who were it was later revealed receiving help and part of their funds from illegal activities such as narcotraficking by not small and insignificant part of their Albanian supporters in Europe (at the time they even coined in the new term, on par with the corpus of new terms originating and being repopularized, developed and used en masse as result from the Yugoslav wars experience such as "ethnic cleansing", "narcoterrorism" forced desperately adopted for military funds, military strategy and tactics by some writers, authors about and observers of the nature of that conflict there) not an insignificant presence of influential Albanian lobbyists for the Albanian nationalist cause, through its relatively large existing diaspora in the West and Western nations at that time in comparison to ther people's in the Balkans, in American politics exclusively to reconsidering US's state up until then stances and positions towards viewing more favorably, cooperation and legitimising of the KLA as an organisation, it's insurgency/ressistance methods and its stated political goals and were also provided intelligence assistance and military funding by BND - West (then Unified) German state intelligence agencies who helped them (this was clearly admitted by German journalists who investigated this issue at the time and later) and who deployed terrorist tactics against Serbian civilians, police and armed forces alike in order to cleanse them or eliminate their presence from Kosovo completely in order to have it Albanian dominated. NATO then looked at this whole mess of a situation and fueling of horrible humanitarian atrocities and war crimes on all sides and decided that it needed to find the pretext in some carried out atrocities against civilians, like it did in Bosnia and Herzegovina 4 years before, in order to have a justification in the media to it's public why it needed to launch a full-scale air bombing campaign and raid against Serbia, and to wreck its all key strategic and economic infrastructure in order to force a halt to the war effort and ongoing conflict down in Kosovo, and also later discovered, through the deployment of some if its stored depleted uranium and cluster bombs from the Gulf War in the operation to demoralise, psychologicaly defeat and deliberately attempt to lessen/reduce the numbers of the Serb population in Serbia if the conflict would be ongoing for longer in order to pre-emptively stop fears circulating of it's possible future colonisation and resettlement in some of their former lands in Kosovo or lands and property that were left behind by the Albanian refugees from the war, which most of them later returned to, after the the war was finished, and Serbia capitulated in it's operation and a ceasefire and peace agreement was signed between it, KLA representatives and all NATO countries known as the Kumanovo Accords (basically a more unfavourable rehash of Rambouillet offer/contained ultimatum for mandatory democratic referendum to be held in Kosovo for its status in years before the aerial bombardment). NATO in order to achieve all this and facilitate the planting of one of the largest US military bases in Europe, to act as further connecting tissue to NATOs defensive shield against the potential future rearising of the geopolitical threat of Russia for European stability, for some reason in the Balkans, in Kosovo, and in turn to turn into an American and German protectorate, client state, that has less independence in its economy and decision making then a US federal state such as Texas, went on to wreck, at the time FRY Serbia's economy and infrastructure to such a degree that the damaged estimated, by some economists from the Serbian (Western funded) NGO group of economists the G17 at the time and other regional non-Serb economists, by that single, "only sole humanitarian bombing campaign and intervention", was in some estimates from 30 to 50 bilion dollars (some higher estimates even say 100 billion dollars due to the long term economic halt caused) in economic damages, from infrastructural repairs to heavy damage sustained to important economic and even landmark and cultural objects, a calculated whole of several yearly annual GDPs loss for the whole of Serbia and it's population and at the time Kosovo combined for a few years, inflicted upon a small, several million population country in the south east of Europe, effectively third worldising the country in comparison to it's comparatively close to European standards, during its high points, decade and a half earlier, in the Yugoslav times. Did the EU and NATO then at least try to foster the historic reconciliation with Serbia, by atleast attempting in trying for a bit to help its economy slowly and steadily go back up, via some favourable economic aid package, and speed up its integration into the Western economic and security architecture together with Kosovo in order solve that thorn in it's side in it's wider EE and Balkan security architecture for dettering the geopolitical rearise of Russia? No it proceeded to unilaterally recognise Kosovo's proclaimed independence and effectively halted Serbia's EU integration, thus Kosovo's as well, which support was at the all time high among the population, well over 50%, who wanted a quick out of solution, to the long proceeding economic crisis and stagnation in the country in 2008. by circling it and side lining and declaring Kosovo independent in order to start building it's NATO/US protectorate and station there, as well as continue nation building in Afghanistan against the rearise of the Russian geopolitical threat in Europe and the Chinese one in Central Asia, dealing the finishing move with that and solidfying in the long term, I would personally assess a few decades more, the average Serb's alienation from them, to NATO the most of all. You can thus see from this stated historical evidence from the Serbian experience, that NATO appears as a very self-interested and self-serving profit generating organisation based on the pretext of a geopolitical threat existing against the US military and the Russian geopolitical threat in Europe, that only cares about obfuscating UNSC resolutions and international law for R2P justification reasons for wide humanitarian, civilian saving, war crime, attrocity and genocide prevention reasons and carry out military interventions, missions and operations only when it is seen in the long term profitable for them to go out of their way in doing so and if it serves their long term, strategical and geopolitical goals of doing so for the US defense industry, and its crucial missions for forwarding it's global military and economic alignment strategic goals, that fills and shares/the large part of the NATO budget for all these countries that are members of the organisation. Primacy of overall preconditions for the alignmemt of multiple layers of self-interest in an endeavour over principled global humanitarian/sanction stances in all situations where it is warranted in the world as the Serbian refugees from Croatia and Palestinians in Syria and Rwandans and East Timorese knew and felt in the 90s where they also suffered, some to a much more worse, horrible, unjustified, unwarranted and unprovoked atrocious degree than others it is understood of course , authoritarian abuse of their basic human rights by some open authoritarian, religious and ethnic supremacist regimes and countries, and some that are still treated nominally as civilised democracies with no regime in charge in actuality, by large swathes of the international community whose interests aligned with it and are to a degree complicit in it's oppression, discrimination and basic human rights crimes and abuses. Note: All of what I have written here can be found on sourced Wikipedia links and articles if one bothers do that a proper, through independent research on this topic if one is actually interested in grasping and understanding this event and not scoring cheap political or personal snipes based on one's caricatured, lazily unresearched, deeply ignorant and stereotypical beliefs about what the other person beliefs, knowledge and stances regarding this issue are, that he/she is discussing this issue with or attempting to communicate something about it or engage in some form of dialogue with, and not jump to the first conclusions he/she wants to believe about it by linking only sentences or paragraphs from one page, not bothering to checking links or sources leading to other pages about other subjects and topics connected to it, on this interconnected issue often times deliberately separated from the wider contexts in that situation because that alligns with his/her already pre-conceived notions, prior beliefs and biases he/she intentionally and unintentionally wants to still hold and abide by to some extent for various reasons because of the norms existing in his society regarding somethings existing within these issues and very, complex layered event that showed and underscored various issues, hypocrisies and hypocritical stances, inconveniences and inconsistentcues existing in our world.

When a Kosovar and a Serb from the Serb capital understand more and have compassion more for each other on this issue than an unwitting Russophobic NATO PR lobbyist from Sweden. Just goes to show how much the whole organisations PR is based on upon hiding it's interests incentives for the choosing , R2P justifications of operations, for example Sweden's prolific arm's manufacturing industry skyrocketing profits in the "permanent war industry post-9/11 in the Mid East" that helps in part funds it's advertised and celebrated social welfare programs incentivising and luring immigration in a country facing negative demographic trends and demographic decline and its funding of public welfare institutions. Zero backdrop profit generating interest and incentives to join that organization and it's policies towards certain "problematic states for the stability of the international global economic order". ? I will debunk later all his ahistorical idealised and universalised NATO pre-selection choosing justification Spiel, deliberately repeated in order not to compromise the organisations standing, choosen universalised image it wants to project to the world and reputation internationally for the PR to the public of future prospective state members willing to join it for their protection and advancing of their own interests, that he went talking about here signaling out only humanitarian, atrocity and war crime, ethnic cleansing, culturocide and genocide prevention reasons for it's aerial bombardment of Yugoslavia, including Serbia and Kosovo both, in the backdrop end of the wars in 1999. What's crucial in the extracted sourced Wikipedia links that were supplied is what was crucially left out and deliberately not mentioned and not said historically context wise leading up to it and the wider context then globally.

Well, this Pandora's box possibility of nuking a civilian city was opened in August 1945. when the US and it's Allies - following it's official war doctrine of "unconditional surrender" for all the Axis power states, both Germany and Japan, - nuked civilian cities, with no military strategic or crucial economic significance for the war industry and effort, in Japan in order to demoralise ressistance to unconditional surrender and achieve this war aim of wrapping up the war this way - and now today we also know to send act as a detterence to the Soviet Union's expansionism in former Nazi or Imperial Japan captured, collaborative or client state territory and some of its own pre-war internationally recognised one. There is a ongoing discussion today, given the new documents and information that have resurfaced after opening of the historical archives in Germany and the US - that is "unconditional surrender" from a state doctrine precedent set in international relations, strategic warfare and military strategy, not seen before WWII, did perhaps in some instances more harm than good, since from the memoirs of various German military officers, generals and intellectuals, it was clearly shown German General Staff's plot to depose Hitler and the Nazis from command in 1944, was stopped from gaining wider traction and support because of this "unconditional surrender" demand from the Allied states that was just unacceptable for them do that let large part of their territory away be just taken by the Soviet Union without being able to reach a deal with the Allied states to impose some buffer zones between them across Europe. In other words, with that "unconditional surrender" demand they stopped the perhaps the possibility, with the help of some of Nazi opponents/disagreers at that point, not at all in the minority, among the German General Staff (Manstein later admitted to be one of them) and higher ups and intellectuals (Karl Schmidt) to facilitate conditions for a regime change within Germany and for Germany to negotiate and sign a peace deal or ceasefire agreement with the Allied states earlier (a separate one with them first, and then afterwards with Soviet Union, after the Allies reached a an agreement peace deal with the Soviets and together with Germans imposed a buffer zone between the Soviets and Germanies pre-war territory) and to avoid large, wide scale, indiscriminate carpet bombing of German civilian cities only fervering the total war camp and in some instances Nazi support because of their "humanitarian and moralistic concerns" formulated prior behind pursuing wholeheartedly and in some instances dogmatically in all contexts such a then brand new formulated war doctrine. Putin might demand the same "unconditional surrender" thing, if things further deteriorate, now from the Ukranian leadership for it's armed military ressistance and civilian armament ressistance, constitution and it's strivings for NATO ascension in some period of time and consider weighing such an option, even now in Europe 2022. not properly digesting it's WWII myths on which the post-war international order was built, by using this WWII Allied states precedent in both Germany and Japan.

V. I. Lenin "On the National Pride of the Great Russians" Published: Sotsial-Demokrat No. 35, December 12, 1914. Published according to the text in Sotsial-Demokrat. Source: Lenin Collected Works, Progress Publishers, [197[4]], Moscow, Volume 21, pages 102-106. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/dec/12a.htm Interesting short not long read about that very topic, that the two are not mutually exclusive and irreconcilable, but rather from what perspective and standpoint one chooses to interpret them and apply them.

The only difference now currently being is that the Americans and the Coalition actually succeded, in their regime change goal and op and somewhat future idea and vision for Iraq ultimately what they wanted with in the first place since the late 1980s and 1990s though they were willing to pay a heavy price and risks in blood and treasure for it in their population and the Iraqi one and of course the way to service their external government debt and deficit. Russia is actually now trying to learn exactly from that and try to implement it from America's playbook regarding Ukraine, and the reason why Putin slightly hinted, in the wake of the world seeing and info leaking via Wikileaks regarding the Iraq experience, at Bush during one of peaks of the Iraq war in 2008 before the major withdrawals in 2011 and the Bucharest Summit in 2008 about Ukraine's status to Russia as well in geopolitics and it's political course and direction of its culture that they aimed to steer it at close to Russia, we can say, dare to guess or speculate on some grounds based on the way this invasion is being carried that the invasion plans as a preemptive were probably drafted back then, at the announcement in the Bucharest Summit, even during open pro-Russia collaborative politicians in Ukraine's mandates.

This war has been going on effectively for 8 years now, since the ceasefire treaties never ended officially the hostilities, and the global public was kept in the dark about it, about this little dirty secret powering some part of it's economy, and downplayed of it's reignition and escalation for global economic stability reasons, similarly how the US kept in the dark its own population for the intent to invade Iraq officially in US documents confirmed since 1999, but some claim even before the Gulf War because of the human rights atrocities against minorities during the Iraq-Iran war happening there before hand by the Iraq Baathist regime led by Hussein that America helped and sponsored but later because of those humanitarian atrocities deeply regreted and felt a obligation and responsibility to depose him at some point. The official Wikipedia page on the topic openly confirms, verifies and admits this, that this war never in fact ended and that we are now in fact only just seeing the latest escalation of it and the attempt of it's resolution, reaching a decisive peace-deal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

I've heard ideas circulating that they might try to attempt federalize or confederalize the whole country in order to somehow integrate the Donetsk and Luhansk in order to get away of the foundational UN principle territorial integrity and sovereignty harming problem and international recognition aspect in the long term after their attempt of an equivalent of an "regime change operation" and change the flag and policy of Ukranization and Ukranian citizen building to acknowledge the 20% of the Russian speaking minority and force a change of a flag to include that historical ties and historical connections to the Russians and the Russian speaking language. Here were some of the examples of unconfirmed speculation online regarding the change of the flag and even perhaps the countries full name: "Federal Republic of Ukraine" (First flag in order) "People's Republic of Ukraine" (Second flag in order) and ongoing flags going around accommodating and circulating regarding that constituional and official country name change: (the white added is said to serve to symbolise the Russian and Slavic historical and cultural ties (with classic Panslavic tricolors symbols of the 19th century) to Ukraine and the Ukraine region and the Russian nationality and language there and the multiethnicity, multinationality present in the country - these are some of the speculations I see going on) Important note: None of this is yet official as the official plans of the RF going forward with the attempt and aim of what kind of regime change plan they have and still want to aim and achieve within the country.

@Carl-Richard Posted about a beautiful, heart felt song in another thread right next to this one, that I will also repost here, with Carls permission, titled Kyiv, that I know first heard about and that warmed my troubled heart, as tribute and honour to all the victims and souls lost in this war. I will post also the one I can relate to cathartically and deeply with this one that Carl posted above from people's experiences here where I live from another deeply tragic war, and about another city where it took place, where the threads and bonds were tragically untangling and had to be severeed only to be entangled again, as a tribute also to all the interconnectedness of the souls and lives lost in this war now and of those before: "My dear love, my dear love, my dear love, my dear looveee... Soprano: "

It's Serbs, Montenegrans, Croatians and Bosniaks here as well brother, the intertwined threads and knots in a spinner vowen together, as Milovan Djilas, Serb Montenegrin revolutionary and communist leader, and democratic socialist theoretician and writer once allegorically put it and said, right before the start of the 90's Yugoslav wars, of how will wars against each other only further serve to futily entangle and untangle and then again start entangling endlessly our long, shared, connected threads until we ultimately became one hopefully somewhat almost round curveball ?, for past several hundred centuries back that can't be easily unvowen and severeed no matter how much we try to do that in ultimately futile ways only to be untangled and then entangled again by the forward march of history and to themselves and to each other

The Iraq-Ukraine comparison, justification analogy and manufacturing attempt for invasion justification on the Russian side doesn't hold water either as well that I see going as a false equivalences and comparison justification narrative, that if Russia didn't invade just now, US would allow Ukraine to in the most exaggerated invented claim "re-nuclearize" and put missile systems five minutes from Moscow directly threatening it, this some backward end of the Cold War trauma being held back, suppressed and projected onto others intentions, viewing them through the lense of the exclusive hegemony of the past and with no subsequent more gracious, sensitive and conscious evolutionary step or leap taking place within the West aims and approach during that in between time in foreign policy. Saddam Hussein and Iraqi people he was brutally oppressing and terrorising under his rule was first directly helped and assisted in his military officer led coup/putsch and purging of suspected communists and their political leaders at the time within Iraq for him and his party to come to power, and later allow to solidify it was implemented by the US/UK int. services, then the US tacitly militarily funded, aided and backed him again against Iran, then they saw what monstrosities, horrors and atrocities they have supported and almost complacently allowed to be unleashed upon the Iraqi people during his rule, especially the religious minorities and sects not holding onto power and the Kurds, they were outraged by this, felt a responsibility of what they helped and fostered to be unleashed within the country they then themselves bear also the direct responsibility to help in any means then necessary of then correcting it as soon as they can and by using any opportunity that may come forth or any means at their disposal and already planned back then of deposing their helped mistake, then the sort of unprovoked, exaggerated full-scale invasion of Kuwait, with the aim of occupation, by Iraq, oil prices suddenly jumped, skyrocketed on the world market, happened and then they already planned they have to foster the conditions in Iraq by exacerbating desperation for change via sanctions, which was already suffering deeply and minorities being actively persecuted there and subject to unrestricted war criminal activity for possibly rebelling against the horrid, inhumane conditions the country found itself in, to depose of him by any means necessary and waiting for any opportunity for that to come in the near future, then of course 9/11 terrorist attack happened and the pretext to manufacture and invent the justification for invading Iraq as a direct threat to the US's security was put forth. Ukraine and it's current political leaders however didn't do anything even close of the following on the even same level that Saddam did and was doing, the most they did was discriminate and forcefully oust some pro-Russian people from the government in Ukraine in order to avoid Russian government having a say in their domestic politics, perform some delustration and bans of former communists and officials connected to the Russian state that aimed to also have an overwhelming past Soviet ties colonial influence and an overwhelming say in and control of their country that way and discriminate some pro-Russian insisting Russian exclusively, not willing to learn a bit of Ukranian, speaking people on their unwillingness to fully assimilate and integrate as functioning tolerant citizens of the Ukrainian country, and not foster pro-Russian ethno-political separatist desires and fantasies aimed to destabilise the country and to keep it ina subservient position to the Russian state in Moscow. During the reaction to the 2014 Russo-Ukranian fratricidal war in the Donbass, now spread in the whole of Ukraine, some Ukrainians embraced and also get re-radicalized into more extreme, toxic and unhealthy, more exclusionary form of their Ukranian nationalism as reaction to the horrors of it and in part some slight aspects of historical revisionism but that was due to an attempt to solidfy their distinct identity, history and nationality as Ukranians as different, separate and not the same and identical as the Russian one due to the, seems now, justifiable fear of the overwhelming threat they felt coming from the colonial, destabilising, more overt brute imperialistic ambitions of the Russian state in Ukraine and their ethnic separatists collaborators and political sattelites there, but unlike Saddam no Ukranian statesmen or president since 2014 aimed to directly threaten or destabilise a neighbouring country or did they openly persecute any minorities in Ukraine, they only had to respond to what they thought was the aim of the Russian state to destabilise, subjugate and deny their people's sovereignty and independence by actors and political influences within in it working not directly on behalf on the whole of all Ukranian peoples interest but on behalf of the Russian state aimed to subjugate, destabilise and recolonize their country again to the second world country such as the RF.

Now is probably a good time to pose the question up in the open bluntly and to ask why is it still acceptable for Russia to have so many nukes in stash still given the ability that they have no longer the ability to be a somewhat stabilising force in the East like the Soviet Union and that they no longer have the world economy and economic importance and relevance for the whole world to back and justify having that much nukes in stash and the ability to destabilise the whole world economy by using the threat of nukes as coercion force to achieve it's forceful aggressive, unprompted regional dominance and hegemonic goals instead of being a negotiating and stabilising factor in them? Why aren't [most of them up to 90-95%] just handed to China via some Agreement, where the Chinese in turn then have to buy some Russian government stocks, bonds, service a bit of their debt or invest in their companies and are adequatetly stimulated and compensated for that by some third power also [basically they then don't have to invest in as much as they have and probably build from almost scrap this underground nuclear silo operation in Inner Mongolia and in Central China or wherever else it is being built they have currently going on] actor in that negotiation agreement like the US, which [China] is much more intertwined, important and relevant for the global economy and thus has much more interests to attempt to act to be a somewhat stabilising force in it so it too won't suffer economically for performing intentionally, deliberately, sidelining agreements, negotiations for peaceful resolutions with some possible concessions, like the Russian government seems here that it did, some overly destabilising act for the whole world economy so it can alone profit in some way militarily or politically from it or directly coerce or threaten whole interconnected and interdependent European markets and economies with some openly coercive demands, ultimatums and measures for its own sole benefit, goals.