Something Funny

@Leo Gura I remember you saying a while ago that some of their courses were worth watching if you could find them on torrents. Do you still think so?

Was this thing really so big that he was called the most hated man in the world, lol?

What do you think about this? I remember @Leo Gura commenting on him interviewing right wingers and saying something like: "he just wants to be the biggest interviewer". Looks like it's more than that for him.

Disclaimer: Not sure what the right sub forum is for this post so I decided to post it in the "wisest" one I've realised that I am struggling to stay consistent with vegan diet because I was out of touch with why I want to do it and my values. I just got into this groundhog day of trying to eat vegan, failing, trying again, failing again, etc. etc. And so now I am thinking that one of the best ways to get super clear on why you want to do something is to have it questioned and challenged by other people. So, here we go: Essentially, I want to eat a vegan diet because I love animals. I care about them, I feel a lot of empathy and compassion towards them. Seeing them hurt makes me hurt emotionally. I would never hurt an animal with my own hands, so the only reason I am able to eat non vegan food is because it is so disconnected from the process of actually acquiring it (which is why I think that I really need to get in touch with my feelings and "why?"). Also, it's important to note that I do not call myself vegan, because I still want to use some animal products, like beeswax and ethically sourced wool. And because I don't want to put labels on myself in general.

I invite anyone who is interested to watch this documentary on animal abuse and exploitation and then share their thoughts. I am currently on minute 6 and I can't imagine how huge the balls of the journalists who were filming all that must be.

@Salvijus it's actually crazy how brainwashed people are, just because they've been living in a society that kills and abuses animals since they were born. Just think about it from the perspective of an alien. Scenario one: Breeding an animal and then buying it to keep as a pet for your personal gratification. Causing it many genetic health issues due to breeding them to look "cute" Brutally killing hundreds of other animals over the span of many years to feed it. In some cases, dumping it in a shelter to get euthanised because you got bored of it or it's too much of a pain in the ass. Scenario two: Adopting the dumped animal, feeding it maybe not the best but mostly okay diet while avoiding deaths of hundreds of other animals. The idea that the second option is the radical one is bewildering to me. To me it sounds like a decent, reasonable compromise.

I guess chewing on raw meat is very pleasant.

Yeah, and I gave you examples of how hypocritical it is.

How is tofu or tempeh cheating, lol? Not my fault you can't cook

Oh well, my common sense is saying that you are talking our of your ass and have no actual knowledge or experience to back it up.

Just say that you are not into having a serious discussion with those stupid straw man examples. Lab grown meat is a thing already. Oh okay, so you have one example that is not even correct , got it. Brutal torture and slaughter of millions of animals is not over the line. Breeding animals to make money of them is not over the line. Breeding animal for looks, causing them to have all sorts of health issues is not over the line. Dumping animals in shelter is not over the line. Feeding your dog a vegan diet (that you judge while having close to zero knowledge about it) is over the line. Makes perfect sense. And what's the basis of you saying that. Do you have any expierence with dogs being fed vegan diets and know how their well being is? I am sure whatever crap kibble they feed to the dogs in the animal shelter before killing them off is much better though... God forbid someone decided to adopt them and give them vegan food. That would be atrocious, way over the line.

How many times do I need to repeat that? NOBODY is going around, putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to be vegan. All that's done is: "Hi, would you consider switching to a vegan diet?". There are courses for beginner vegans, 30 day challenges, etc. The worst thing that could possibly happen to you is that a guy with a microphone will approach you on the street and ask you some questions about veganism. This is a silly argument because meat, and fish, and eggs, is way more expensive than soy, chickpeas, beans, lentils, etc. You can literally get a year long supply of legumes for under 200 bucks where I live. And even if you eat meat, you still need to eat all the vegetable and grains to have a balanced diet. The only vegan food that's expensive is fancy processed food, ala vegan burgers, sausages, cheese, etc. Oh yeah, I am sure there are lots of money in the niche start up industry that's vegan pet food. Much more money than in the meat processing industry and your regular pet food brands, like Royal Canin, ads for which are plastered in every vet's office around the world, even though it's a total crap. But I am sure if I made a post about feeding my dog/cat Royal Canin, you wouldn't bat an eye. But as soon as something is vegan, everyone is suddenly turning into sherlock holmes. What is really happening is that vegan pet food feels weird, and foreign, and radical so you are not even open to trying and seeing if it actually works. Because guess what, it won't kill you pet after they eat it once. The worst thing that could happen is that after a while they will have some nutritional deficiencies that might turn up in their blood work, which will then need to be adjusted properly by working together with a vet. And this should be done regardless of what food they eat. You still need to visit the vet regularly, do health checkups, bloodwork, etc. But guess who is more likely to do it. Your average pet owner or a vegan who loves animals and who is going though all this effort of researching pet food, finding the appropriate diet, dealing with people being sceptical and judgemental of them, etc.? And its not like your average pets is in a very good shape. Cancer, being overweight, kidney stones in cats, stomach issues, are all common problem on a regular diet. But nobody cares.

@Salvijus https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/20/vegan-pet-food-as-healthy-for-cats-and-dogs-as-meat-says-veterinary-professor https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0253292

What impractical levels? The only thing you came up with was pets, which I don't see the issue with as long as the animal is healthy and is getting all the necessary nutrients.

This is a dishonest way of putting it. I haven't studied the topic too deeply, but as far as I understand, there are vegan pet foods for dogs and have that have all the necessary nutrients. Force feeding is what's done to geese at factories where food is literally pushed down their throats. In this case you just give your pet his food and they eat it, willingly. For some reason, I don't see people having issue with feeding their pet your average pet food which is literally a cancer inducing garbage. That's just something you came up with. Nobody is saying that. This is debatable. Where there is will, there is a way. Many people that eat animal products could totally live on a vegan diet so it makes sense for vegans to try to reach out to those people and at least get them to try. Once again, nobody is walking around, entering houses with a gun and making people go vegan. If you want to make an argument that vegan activism shouldn't exist, I don't agree with it. Many people are in poor health and chronically ill while eating animal products, but they don't question their diet because it's a status quo. But as soon as you get sick as a vegan, everyone start to question what you eat. And lab grown meat is promising (unfortunately, meat industry is actively lobbying to ban it). If more people supported veganism as a whole, there would be more push for lab grown meat to become mainstream.

Once again, this is just something that you have imagined yourself. There are millions of vegans practicing veganism every day, making a positive change in the world. It's ironic because you are the one expecting some kind of naive utopia by saying that vegans should care about literally all death in the world, and that veganism should be practicable by literally every person in the world or there is something wrong with it. How about we do some philosophy? But real philosophy, grounded in the real world, instead of this mental masturbation. What exactly is your critique of veganism as a movement and of vegan people in terms of their actions? What would you have them do differently?

Not really, this is just something you came up with It is for many people, nobody is standing with a gun to your head telling you to stop eating meat. All this boils down to is the fact that one person is taking concrete action that lead to a better world for everyone and another is simply engaging in armchair philosophy that leads to nowhere, except to justifying further complacency and inaction.

no that's the only way we can living in alignment with your strawmanned vegan values. I have already responded so many time in so many ways to the bacteria argument, it's becoming annoying.

no wdym?

@Nemra I am tired of arguing about dying bacteria and other stuff like this, sorry.

obviously, that was a joke.

@Nemra I see killing as abuse.

@Clarence nothing too radical about it. I've been eating vegan since I wrote that post and I am doing great.

I love it when people use spirituality when it's convenient for them to justify the shit they are doing. Putin be like: death is imaginary, nowhere in the universe does it says that killing thousands of people is wrong. Distinction between a human and a bullet is a human constriction.

Yeah well, from what I've studied all of it is basically just bullshit greenwashing. There are 2 basic methods of how animals are killed in a "humane way": 1. Electrocuting them to knock them out, and then slicing their throat 2. Using a stun gun (basically a hammer propelled by air) to break their skull and knock them out, and then slicing their throat. Both methods are painful by themselves and very ineffective at actually knocking animals out. I've seen lots of videos of slaughterhouse workers having to shoot / shock them repeatedly many times for it to actually work.