subterfuge

i have it. Nothing amazing in there tbh

I just don't know how anybody can say that girls don't care about looks with a straight face, tbh. I agree that game is often going to come into play and if you have zero game you might still get rejected even if she thinks you're handsome, but having 2 very good looking friends as wingmen i've seen first hand how they can get away with very sub par game and still get the desired result, and how they literally even get approached! (and she has nothing to go by other than their good looks at that point)

thanks. I guess I just read too much into it. I mistook her friendliness for attraction. I feel ok now and know I didn't do anything wrong. Cheers

thanks. Yes, that's more or less what happened so I guess in theory I didn't do anything wrong, but have this nagging feeling that a girl would only ask a random guy to go too a bar with her at midnight if she was looking to hook up which would make it my fault

I was out cold approaching on Sat night. Hadn't had any luck so decided to go home. Ordered my cab in the cab rank and spotted a pretty girl sitting down also waiting for her cab. I said hi to her and we chatted for a bit, and then she more or less said we should cancel our cabs and go get a drink together/ I thought this was a home run! Pretty stranger wanting to go for a drink with me. However, after we get to the bar and get a drink and chat a bit, as soon as I attempt to slowly escalate, she stops me in my tracks and tells me she has a boyfriend. I think soon after that she more or less drifted away but I was left scratching me head lol. Not sure if I screwed up somehow, or whether I never actually stood a shot. Would a girl ask a random guy to go too a bar with her late at night if she wasn't into him or just had zero intentions of hooking up? Maybe i read too much into it lol Keep thinking about it yesterday and a bit frustrated

yes, speaking too another pickup guy on reddit, it appears he may well have lots of usernames and is likely 'john anthony' himself (who appears aweful at game from his infields as well as being exposed a few times) shilling for business and making up lies so yeah. Not surprised the compliance theory makes no sense. It's all about attraction. If you're not her type, she fails to comply with any sexual compliance test, no matter how small you try to 'baby step' it

lol. There's no attraction material. If you're not her type, she answers your quetsions (, 'i'm just going home after work', 'yes I like wine' etc, and then says 'no thanks' when you ask her out haha). That's called asking a girl some questions, but maybe you consider it 'game'. Different strokes

He's one of the few people who claims to be able to do what I want to be able to do so I keep getting roped into his posts lol. However, one massive alarm bell is that he seems to think john anthony is the best there is. I've seen john anthony's infields. They are not good! i've seen his 'premium' infields and John Anthony can't seem to convert an girl from no to yes and he can't get compliance when the girls aren't into him. So if the reddit guys hero can't do it, I wonder whether the reddit guy is living in a fantasy land lol. I'd love to see in person someone using variuos methods to take girls home who clearly seem uninteretsed and unattracted to the guy on his approach. It's talked about but basically never been shown. A bit like alien life haha

That's where his theory and you understanding of his method is a bit different I guess. He said it's not about finding one who is compliant and down. His theory is that they are ALL compliant and down (assuming they are straight) and that with that in mind he will just choose the hottest girl and pull her home Yes, that's always been my general thinking too. I think a LOT of the time you can run really good game, but she's just not interested/attracted/whatever, and so will of course fail your compliance tests as soon as they are very 'man-to-woman'. He says that basically never happens though and is remedied with his operant conditioning etc Just hard to know who to believe and stuff nowadays. I've seen millions of infields from the apparent 'best' and honestly i'm rarely impressed (I can tell within seconds, from her level of instant attraction, whether the infield will be a success or not and i'm basically always right! The PUA is good at capitalizing on existing attraction, but he can't 'convert' a girl from 'no' to 'yes'). But it seems to the only people who claim to have this super power of banging whoever they want due to almost mind control level game are people on forums and reddit and stuff who also don't have infields. Kind of frustrating

so you certainly seem to understand what this guy is telling me. Yes, his theory is that attraction is both irellevant and also super easy to get. Now you just keep asking for small comliance steps all the way to to sex. And you 'solve' the issue each time she rejects comliance (either with a tease or with some sort of logical objection handling line such as 'I have to be up early too' if she says she can't come back because she was work in the morning) But I have been testing it though ,and as expected, girls will fail to comply, assuming i'm not her type, as soon as teh compliance test is anything that could be sexual. No matter how small I increase each compliance test there is a 'line' where, if i'm not her type, she won't comply. But he says that's now how it works and he can bang 10/10 models every night etc which is what I want to do!. lol. But maybe it 'works' for him because he's much better looking than me? I don't know. Although he of course says he's not and that girls do'nt care about looks anyway. Guess it's hard to test stuff like this. My really handsome wingman can (and does) get laid being ridiculously direct so you could say his style works, but for most guys it's suicide lol Is your friend really good looking? Sounds like his results are better than any PUA i've ever read about or on youtube. And this is using the same compliance method? Yeah, I think in one post the guy claimed he could make girls eat dirt using this compliance system lol. I think there's a good chance he's in dreamland and I also am suspicious that he might in fact BE that 'john anthony' scammer guy. I'm sure I could find much better examples of his posts where there's good discussion between him and people saying he's talking crap, but here's one of his posts. He goes by 'kpop' https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/qyux8i/would_it_be_okay_if_i_do_this/hlol6ik/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/p9v3wy/do_girls_secretly_like_manipulative_men/hc7x5s2/?context=3 Maybe a thread where a few of us who are struggling can use his theory and compare results. Hopefully we can all be sleeping with the very hottest girls each night using the compliance method!

'The thing is, compliance and attraction are going to be connected. If she's not attracted she's not going to comply enough' - That's exactly my thoughts. But he tells me i'm wrong. He says attraction is irrelevant (although he also claims it's teh EASIEST thing in the wolrd to get, making it a non issue either way)

Yep, I agree it's toxic. (although when he says 'neg' he said it's more a tease as you say) I guess what i'm asking though is does it actually work!!? (allowing you to sleep with any girl basically. Even if you're not her type) In my experience it certainly doesn't. Negs and all that stuff never work like in the books for me (unless it's on a girl who thinks i'm hot). If she's not attracted to me, she doesn't care about being 'punished' lol. His theory seems whack to me but maybe some here agree with him But maybe it's because I don't believe i'm a 10/10 like he does? (at least that would be his answer i'm sure)

yes, that was my first question tbh lol Ordinarily, i'd say (as you suggest) that certain outergame could help you along, but this person seems to think that outergame doesn't build attraction (he hates people like Todd Valentine who use pushpull lines for example) and he also says attraction isn't important anyway! Just compliance. And you just need to babystep comliance a tiny bit at a time all teh way to sex as per his theory. his theory seems to be a mixture of believing you are a 10/10 and every girl wants you badly (inner game) combined with SOME outergame (operant conditioning. Punish her lack of comliance with a neg or solve her lack of compliance with the correct objection handling line) I just feel if he was able to do what he claims he can do (basically bang any girl he wants despite being old and not good looking), he'd be richer than Bill Gates lol

Just to be clear, the guy i'm talking about on reddit who I have quoted isn't john anthony as far as I know (although he seems to think john is a pickup God although the infield i've seen of john anthony makes him look like a buffoon with zero 'game', although he claims like 2500 lays!) I'm asking about the reddit guy and his posts and theory. Maybe best to Forget about John Anthony lol

Was reading someone on the seduction sub on reddit who claims to be nearly 40, not good looking, but pulls insta models and F1 grid girls and stuff every night. He advocates 'john anthony' in terms of game who I have looked at briefly. But I fail to really see any 'game' there. (although he claims that's because game isn't about lines and techniques but about 'operant conditioning' and believing you are a 10/10) So the guy on reddit for example answered my question about how to hit on girls who are working and how to attract them, but he said 'you're job isn't to 'attract' them. You're job is to arrange a time to have sex with them''. He then gave me his script, which is: You need to ask for small steps in compliance not just hit her with it like a club, "you're hot! lets go out!!" One of my fav. lines to open service workers is, "You seem like the lazy one... do they just let you keep your job cuz you look like that??" And then the next sentence is "So what've you got going on today after this?" And you proceed to find out her logistics - what time she gets off work and if she's busy later. Once you figure that you, you can go into the date invite in the form of: "Do you like X activity?" -> yes -> "okay cool, we should do X activity [after work or sometime soon], sound good?" then once she agrees to that you can nail down the specifics. So I see very little in the way of 'game' there (e.g if you are not her type I don't see how that would 'work') but he said i'm wrong and that it works if you believe you are a 10/10. He said he believes he can bang ANY girl if she is straight. On the topic of attraction, he says: What you need to understand is that attraction is basically an irrelevant footnote. Like I'm not trying to be mean, but if you're still thinking about attraction, you're at a beginner/low-intermediate level. That's not the difficulty of pickup at all. It's very easy to get with basically every straight woman who is open to being attracted by anybody. I've never had a hard blowout in which my wing was able to open the set. Step 1 is assuming attraction (so here's probably where you're defeating yourself - if you don't believe every girl is already into you, then she likely won't be). I'm a 10, and the only reason I'm talking to her is to find out when she's free to hook up. Everything I say and do comes from that frame, and many girls will just immediately pick up that frame and accept it. The only thing you need to consider from there is compliance or non-compliance. If the girl complies, then she's rewarded (with physical/verbal/logistical escalation). If she doesn't comply, then she's punished (with an IoD - Mystery would've called this a neg), and you vibe/keep talking. I use a basic structure of question -> she answers -> I tell a DHV story feeding off her answer which hopefully hooks her into the conversation. The most important part (which most guys don't do) is to sexualize the conversation frequently. That creates the right emotional energy to make her want to continue the interaction. So then the next time you go for a compliance move, she's more likely to comply. He was then asked: ''Is your theory that if you are ugly and she's not attracted (assuming you believe it's posisble that a girl can find a guy ugly or maybe you're from the school of thought that girls don't even know or care what good looking is) you just need to act/believe (assume) that she IS attracted and then she will be?'' It isn't my theory. It's what I experience everyday of my life, but yes. Most women will just fall into your frame if it's strong enough. I've had women I cold approached turn red and apologize for not remembering my name because she thinks I'm a guy she must've slept with and forgot based on the way I'm treating her. Does anyone here run the same 'game'? (if you can call it that) I've tried his script a few times recently on girls in restaurants, but they just say i'm not her type, although he tells me girls do't have a type and arent' attracted by looks etc. And that attraction doesn't matter anyway. Only compliance (which is why he uses his 'compliance method' based on 'operant conditioning') in order to bang any girl he wants