Marcel

Which is insane. Patients are just like another piece of meat to them, that needs to be processed and filed so they can get paid and they do a terrible job at it on top. The payment structure should be made to reflect actual results and not amount of patients in my view.

Well that’s the thing, how can you definitively know what’s the case? Look. I’m not naive. I just don’t pretend I know stuff, when I truly don’t. All I’m doing is staying radically open minded. It’s not like I subscribe to everything I wrote. I’m just open to actually question it and not have completely stuck and inflexible conclusions. You are ignorant and think you have everything figured out. Ultimately you don’t know and assume.

I’m aware of the game. Ive witnessed it for over a decade. I myself was never a patient or rather refused to be one after seeing how the system worked. But. I went with my mom to her appointments and often times she wanted me to be part of what is being discussed, which is why I know it’s a complete waste of time in most cases.

Well I don’t live in the US, but from what I’ve heard they prescribe pills at a drop of a hat for just about anything. So yeah. It’s definitely bad in the US

This post was more of an angry rant of years of experiences I made with my mom that I never really talked about before. I do have compassion for these people, they are about as stuck as their patients sadly Exactly. Ultimately you have to help yourself, I just wish the people supposed to „assist“ in this process would be better or at least remotely useful. It’s beyond infuriating when every ( most ) mental health professionals are just the same tape over and over. Today I really reached the threshold for what I could tolerate, hence the wording of my post.

As I said 99% are useless. There are good ones out there, but finding them in this haystack of trash is difficult.

I’m not saying this lightly. I have seen it with my mom, have been with her to a ton of different therapists, psychologist etc. and etc. And now that my wife is going through the same, looking for a good therapist, the same pattern is repeating. 99% of them are completely useless, do not know what they are talking about, rant, don’t have any form of system in place, can’t offer or point to literally any resources, have an inappropriate attitude, can’t offer any solutions whatsoever and charge a good chunk of money for it. Scammers! Mental Health systems around the world are fucked. You’re looking for help? Good luck. Your best bet is figuring yourself out, without consulting any of these clowns.

Today I realised that I have more work to do. There are still situations that can make me furiously angry. I’m not saying anger is wrong or that I shouldn’t have the right to feel angry, especially when loved ones get hurt. But. I want to stay in control emotionally no matter what happens or what I am being told. Composure. I’m not trying to become an emotionless robot. I want to be able to feel and transmute any emotion at will. Especially anger, because it’s so potent. Anger is a powerful fuel and I will use it effectively to create the kind of situation I envision. I sometimes forgot how awful some people can act. I often make the mistake of thinking that just because I wouldn’t do something someone else wouldn’t as well, yet there’s always the possibility of evil beyond my comprehension or expectations. I need to broaden my scope in both directions of human activity. Increase my potentiality for good and evil. I have to be able to imagine more then the worst monsters to stay one step ahead of them. I have to be able to imagine more then most graceful angels to do even more good. All sides of human potential contain wisdom and I am more then willing to learn and pick the gold from every perspective that offers itself to me.

For some reason I have started participating in the forum a bit again. Well I typed out a couple of replies to a thread my wife had commented on. I don’t know if I will keep it up or not. It’s not really stimulating to me anymore. Id rather contemplate myself most of the time, finding and healing all the potential kinks in my system. The other day I read a quote that blew me away, because it’s completely correct. “You’re only enemy is your own ignorance” We as humans are largely ignorant, sometimes blissfully, sometimes wilfully, largely unconsciously of pretty much everything in the cosmos. Which also ties in with the topic of forgiveness, reminding me of this age old quote: ”Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do” I feel as if all the metaphorical dots, that I can currently perceive of, are connecting and aligning on an ever more deeper and nuanced level. I can’t wait for what’s next.

Well if it would be changed over night people would have a reaction for sure. But I bet the reaction would be an outcry to change the images back to happy, healthy, maybe cartoonishly animals and not actually about doing something about animal cruelty. Also. If the images would be replaced at a slow enough rate, from status quo, to maybe having a tiny bit of blood on them to eventually completely bloody, tortured and abused, over a long enough time horizon it would be the new status quo and a lot of people wouldn’t bat an eye.

Animal and plant consciousness, if such a thing as plant consciousness even exists, would or could be completely different. To quote Leo: “Nothing is obvious” I wouldn’t be so quick to say that I understand something on a deep level just because I have thought about for a few seconds like you seem to do. Everything you listed is not a proof of anything. It’s a bunch of assumptions. What if there was more to pain then “the impulse of moving away from it” ? How can you definitively know a plant couldn’t be “suffering” or experiencing some version of pain? Would pain, if plants do experience it, work the same way as in humans or animals? What if it works entirely different and does not serve the function you described and fulfils a completely different one? Just because a plant cannot take or “does not have the necessity” to take action does not mean it couldn’t be conscious. Very faulty logic. Why does consciousness necessitate action? Why does consciousness necessitate reactivity? Why does consciousness necessitate decision making? If plants are conscious or not, experience pain or not, is not nearly as obvious as you make it out be.

I don’t think it’s universally true that everyone recognises that, even kind of, intuitively. Hell, some people enjoy torturing animals for sport. It is indeed very easy to rationalise stuff like factory farming and animal cruelty away, especially because well, we eat them and are very far removed from the whole slaughtering process 99.99% of the time. The hunting dudes were very much enjoying that their dogs bit into the pig to stop it from escaping and the subsequent throat slitting and killing. Perception. How do they see these pigs? And yes. If they ( people working in these places and the hunters I just described ) allowed themselves to reflect or practice genuine compassion it would hurt bitterly in retrospect.

@Something Funny Fair enough. Let’s say we could set the experiment up in a way that factors everything you mentioned and beyond in. Well that’s the thing, what does the change in conductivity mean? ( Assuming the result stays the same, I’m speaking hypothetically ) Does anyone actually deeply understand that? Or if it turns out to be flawed experiment to begin with, how would someone prove or disprove that plants do or do not experience something akin to pain / are or aren’t conscious? „There is a huge difference in how cruel and desensitised a person needs to be to pick a flower and to kill an animal. There is a huge difference in how you will feel emotionally if you kill an animal with your own hands and if you pick up a carrot and eat it. Why is that? Have you ever thought about it?“ The problem is perception ( including, culture, conditioning etc. ) The emotional reaction or lack of one is dependent on how someone views an animal or plant. A farmer that kicks animals ( or worse ) like in the documentary you shared doesn’t have much of a reaction anymore, or even enjoys it! Like the guys hunting wild boar. What do you think the perception of someone who abuses animals is? How do they see them? Just imagine we ( hypothetically, I’m not saying this is the case ) all collectively knew that flowers were living conscious beings and have actual relationships with other plants. How much difference in desensitisation would it be between killing a plant vs animal in that case?

Well, the experiment can be easily replicated and verified or disproven of course, if someone set out to do so. ( Only part of the video I actually cared about, forgot to timestamp it, my apologies ) Lets face it. We, at a very large scale do not understand plants or how they may or may not perceive or feel pain etc. The idea plants could be conscious or can feel pain similar to humans or animals is a very radical paradigm shift.

1. Fair enough and I do agree on that part. 2.