taotemu

If you watch Leo's videos and replace every time he says "you" with "I" it makes A LOT more sense. Leo is a spiritual neophyte and he is working through his own delusions under the guise of teaching others. When I watched his video of when he was tripping (enlightenment experience happening in real time), and he appeared to be alone in his home, he was talking to his camera. That is a performance. That is ego. Leo demonstrates little awareness of how powerful his ego is and how distorted it is making his insights. When he realized he went too far in his video about the dangers of psychedelics, instead of owning it, he projects his lessons onto his audience. That is classic narcissism. Narcissism is by definition self deception. He can't seem to see it. And I fear that many of you don't see it either. This guy has a very good critique of Leo along these lines.

Yeah, that is the risk one takes exposing a narcissist.

My first mystical experience was when I was about 10. It happened while I was asleep, like a dream. But this was no dream. There was no "I" and nothing was actually experienced. "I" was simply one with the void. There was no light, but also perfect light. It was pure bliss. When I woke up and went to school, I had no idea what to make of it or how to even attempt to put words around it. For years I never even tried. Eastern mysticism and psychedelic experiences are the closest I could find that talked about such things. As an adult I've taken a lot of LSD, mushrooms and even 5MeO-DMT and NOTHING I have experienced since comes close. I don't know how it happened, or even what happened. Grace is all I can think of. But that experience was so indelible it has never left me 45 years later.

@caelanb You will never find awakening. It isn't lost. It isn't some hidden truth. It isn't a feeling or even a thought. It is simply the realization of who you really are and by extension, what is really real. As they say in Zen, "It is too clear, and so it is hard to see." It is as close as your breath. It is what is looking through your eyes and thinking your thoughts. It isn't some new theory or belief system. It is not some better version of you or some superhero. You don't need psychedelics to discover it (although they can help in some cases if we are really hypnotized by ego). I can only imagine how many people have chased their tail in looking for it. Like Michelangelo said about sculpture, just remove everything that isn't you. What you are left with is enlightenment / awakening / self-realization. When it comes to you, you will think, "Damn! It was right here all along... I just didn't recognize it".

Alcohol is basically the opposite of LSD. Alcohol dulls the senses, inhibits higher consciousness, enhances and yet clouds the ego and can be highly addictive for many people. Alcohol abuse can destroy families and lives. LSD on the other hand heightens the senses, opens up higher consciousness, exposes the ego for what it is and is non-addictive. I suppose LSD can still be abused and can, in some people, lead to delusional thinking and even psychosis. But I would prefer to be around someone tripping on LSD rather than someone in a drunken stupor who can become angry and even violent.

I don't think you understand the nuance they are describing here. There is an order and pattern to the world. The mathematical models are highly predictive, and in the case of black holes, quantum mechanics and relativity, the mathematics described phenomenon prior to empirical observation. This has implications that mathematics is a part of the underlying order of the universe. That is NOT the same as mistaking the map for the territory however. It is also NOT the same as being stuck in a materialistic paradigm. That would be a very unsophisticated understanding of what scientists are actually saying. Higher level mathematics may be closer to consciousness than simply a model of material things. This kind of mistake happens when spiritual people lack a scientific understanding. They either take the strangeness of quantum mechanics and turn it into some kind of New Age woo woo non-sense, or they dismiss what science is actually saying about the nature of reality as pure materialism. As if the 20th century in science never happened and we are still stuck with Newtons laws and an 19th Century understanding of the world. It is science that is confirming that consciousness may indeed be pre-eminent, basically confirming the psychedelic and the subjective experience.

I don't know how many scientists you know, but pretty much all the ones I have talked to about this issue understand completely. Their maps are VERY useful and so it can seem to us non-scientists that they mistake the two. They don't. At least the ones who are not just lab technicians. This whole forum is an example of mistaking the map for the territory. At least as any observer unfamiliar with what we talk about would conclude. It is a perfectly understandable thing to do. It is what we humans do. We make maps, models, stories and paradigms of our experiences. While the layman easily mistakes the map for the territory, anyone with any sophistication with science and math doesn't.

MDMA = feel love, feel bonding, feel good, not a psychedelic. It can help with processing PTSD as it can help rewire reward pathways. LSD = feel connected to everything, mind / consciousness expanding, psychedelic. It helps to gain God like perspective on your life so the ego doesn't run everything and you aren't ruled by fears and base desires.

That's what I thought. But it isn't just nausea, it is violent vomiting and it doesn't matter the dose. I've taken mushrooms dozens of times and this is a reaction that has developed over time. I've gone into the experience before. It isn't a spiritual reaction It is purely physical. I would love to try pure psilocybin as I believe it is an allergy regarding the fungus. With LSD I don't even get nausea. It is clean and pure. Intense as hell, but it isn't pure physical pain like with mushrooms.

My first psychedelics were mushrooms. An amazing introduction. "Earthy", powerful closed eye visuals and open eyed visuals above 5mg. Visits from "forest creatures". Feeling part of everything. Profoundly connected. I believe I have developed an allergy to them unfortunately. I get very nauseous on even micro-dosing now. Maximum taken: 7.5g My second psychedelic was LSD. Holy fuck powerful. Sacred geometry and rainbow fractal closed eye visuals. Open eyed wavy, distorted, Van Gogh looking reality. No visits, just my consciousness in orbit. Ego death at 340ug. Laughing at the absurdity of the ego. Feeling connected to everything. LSD is my favorite psychedelic by far. Maximum taken: 340ug I have done 5MeO-DMT just once. 20mg of freebase smoked. At this dose, it isn't psychedelic. More like a profound dissociative. I was gone for about 10 minutes. No memory of anything. Total whiteout. Profound gratitude to be back. Shockingly powerful. I use Cannabis fairly regularly. I usually dose it so it is just a mellowing to relax at the end of the day. At higher doses it can be profoundly psychedelic. Seems to act as a catalyst for other psychedelics making them more powerful.

Sorry Pooh, but it won't work without a MAOI.

Everyone has biases. Most are benign, like taste in music or preferring chocolate over vanilla. A bias that may be a problem is where it either negatively impacts other people (bias for racism) or intolerance for other peoples choices. Any bias where we don't feel like we have any freedom around it, or it occupies an inordinate amount of our time (like OCD) is likely one to work on. The first step is getting clear on them in the first place.

Yeah, probably. But Pooh may be able to handle it. Generally that is true, especially if smoked. But if you eat it, it won't do anything without a MAOI except make you sick.

Yes. This. I’ve had experiences on psychedelics that were so amazing, so powerful, profound and all around “Holy Shit”. I’ll feel an afterglow for days, even weeks later. But then eventually I’m back. Perhaps with more insight into what is possible. Perhaps able to recognize my own BS better. But certainly not enlightened. My most profound enlightened realizations occurred sober. Perhaps psychedelics helped in some way. But I’m highly suspect of anyone who claims to be fully enlightened who advocates the only or best way to get there is psychedelics.

@Leo Gura thanks Leo. I don’t know much, but I do know that I don’t need psychedelics to awaken. I’ve done plenty, and I have experienced complete presence. It isn’t ego that makes me think psychedelics won’t get me there, it is ego that makes me think they are necessary.

If by tripping balls you mean that our consciousness is generating our perceived experience of the world, you are right.

@Ilan some people should NOT take psychedelics. I hate how they are talked about like they are some kind of existential panacea. Hopefully you will be able to navigate out of the hell you are in.

Yep. 5MeO is serious business. I’m not sure I’ll ever take it again. I’ll probably stick to LSD and cannabis. I don’t like feeling like I’m dying. Call it ego if you want, but I like this illusion of a world and I got very little out of 5MeO.

Exactly. Zen goes right to the jugular of the problem IMO. No distractions, no theology, no metaphysics, no philosophy. Nothing. Just a focused awareness and mindfulness of here and now. Everything else is story and ego.

Yes. I think we are saying the same thing. Being liberated of desire doesn't mean we still don't want to eat chocolate, or have sex or want to stay alive. There is just a freedom around the desires. Desire stops being compulsion. We don't suffer when our desires are not met. As you said, happiness is not held ransom.

No. Any desire is a trap, even the desire to be free of desire. Embrace the paradox of it and just live this moment and realize it is perfect.

I agree completely. It is only when ALL desire ends that we are liberated. The desire to become free of desire and become liberated is itself a trap.

I have benefited greatly from the Work of Byron Katie. It is more a technique to dismantle our stressful thoughts than some spiritual exercise. Her book "Loving What Is" helped me tremendously with dealing with my emotional pain and suffering. It is profoundly simple, yet it takes some practice to break through. In the beginning it can be helpful to find a trained facilitator. She has TONS of free videos on YouTube where she facilitates people through their painful thoughts and stories so you can see how she does it. It was a game changer for me. I practice it almost daily now. https://www.youtube.com/theworkofbk

This is perhaps the most profound thing I have read in a LONG time. I realized this in a deep, deep way a few years ago. This life is IT. There is nothing to do, other than just living my life. Enlightenment is this breath, this moment, this pain, this suffering, this joy. Enlightenment doesn't make those things go away. It just changes how they are seen and experienced. When we can see the flaws and suffering as part of the beauty of this life, then we are free of Samsara. Desire ends and we are liberated.

"Happiness is like a butterfly; the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder." - Henry David Thoreau The traditional Chinese thought that perpetual joy / happiness was a pathological state. Kind of like mania or insanity. Balance is the ideal. Compassionate detachment. In the West we are addicted to external things to try and make us happy. It doesn't. It can't. But we chase after this Disney induced psychosis and try and keep feeding the Hungry Ghosts of our soul. Misery is the result.