wildflower

Theres more meta and or fundamental things: the being in a romantic (essentially discriminatory) relationship in the first place is a net loss. But honestly this type of discussion doesn't lead anywhere because it's an extremely hard truth to accept, like all truths, until you accept them, then you realize how much better it is. Thats the funny thing about truth, relatively it's hard to accept, but absolutely its the best thing for you, and you will ultimately understand that, but only after the fact. But like all truths, it's little at a time, the Ultimate Truths might be extremely hard to take right now, all at once, so go easy on yourself and step by step, if its true and real, it should pay fruits

I don't meant to be anal about this. But I just want to be clear, for all that might possibly read this. It is completely and utterly possibly to have a relationship to sexual pleasure, such that not doing it, isn't just not any problem what-so-ever, it's a choice, a preferred choice I think from our brief communication, this paradigm Im presenting is so far fetched, you probably think Im in denial or crazy. But it's the truth, and I would only encourage you to remain open to the possibility of what Im saying - years ago if someone told me I could have the relationship to sexuality as I do now, I'd have the exact same reaction of everyone else in this thread - so I completely understand you all, but honestly I didn't start this thread to pressure you or convince into anything. I merely wanted to speak to Leo, as I feel like I am at a similiar stage and wanted to know how he is coping with this existential proposition

Ultimately all material existence is inherently suffering, and when God realizes it fully, the universe will stop. This is a bold hypothesis that is a tangent In answer to your question, it is a continuum, not a binary absolute, it is a convergence. You will as you see for yourself, in your own experience, which is your own epistemic understanding, start to gradually see and know the truth about sense pleasure, such that the idea of renouncing sex for example or for masturbation, will cross the threshold of non problem. It will literally be no problem at all, because you fully understand it's a net loss, and you prefer not to do it, out of choice. Right now the idea of giving it up is pretty scary, and you resist it, which is fine, I'm not saying to force yourself, that just causes more suffering on top fo doing it. You don't actually get anywhere that way. Just be honest with yourself, and open minded to the possibility

It depends on your level of understanding, conciousness and wisdom. I'm not trying to create an aversion to sense pleasure, and if you can't see that acting on sense pleasure is always ultimately selifshness and a net loss, not just for you but for the person you have sex with (at some point you will understand the harm you are doing to them), then no problem, it isn't true for you right now. I can only share my own experience. The logic, truth or wisdom behind it, really shouldn't be hard or complex to understand, when you understand the connection between love, selflessness, selfishness, sense pleasure, desire etc etc But look being human isn't easy, but we should be clear to separate truth, how we currently behave, and our ability to accept or embody truth.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you - wasn't intentional. I actually emailed you recently (3 times last week). I feel like we are brothers in sorts. Our journeys are extremely similiar, and I resonate and agree with everything you say, and have come to almost the same conclusions on the videos I've seen from you (I discovered you only recently) I ask this without any prejudice or judgement at all, if you believe in what you say, are you embodying it fully, and if not why not? Like none of the theory or understanding is complex or complicated, right? It's just the actualizing and living in accordance to truth that seems the hard part. How are you coping with it?

@DefinitelyNotARobot your ability to love and accept sense pleasure, desire and the ego, doesn't mean you act on it or pursure it. Here let me show directly the erroneous epistemic views you have, and I offer this with as little abrasion as possible, it's also the same as Mathew above: You can change within your or mathews statements sense pleasure with absolutely anything else in the universe, but to show you the erroneous view, change it to murder 20 kittens, or to 5 innocent babies. God still forgives you. But should you do it? Can you see how God forgiving you isn't a justification for you to do it, or that it won't negatively impact you? Or is in anyway wise? Or without consequence?

@DefinitelyNotARobot this is the type of thing nothing I will say will convince you of the truth, so the only thing I can say is to see for yourself in your own experience. You can also see how it makes sense if you define selflessness as your capacity to love, and the desire for sense pleasure which essentially is an attachment to sense pleasure as an impediment to selflessness. I mean theres tons of different ways to skin this cat, but ultimately it boils down to your desire for truth, desire for for the capacity to love, wisdom and honesty. At the other side of renouncing attachments and desires, is a net gain, not a loss, but sometimes (if not always) it's hard to see that

Sure, but that isn't wisdom, or truth. The truth is sense pleasure is a net loss, it causes you suffer, makes you more selfish, less capable of love, furhter away from God. The question isn't about how God would judge your ignorance of sense pleasure - to be clear