Zen LaCroix

I know for myself getting rejected a lot can produce a rage in me which I'm still working on to be neutral towards or find funny. For yourself if you don't care about rejection where does the need to be careful about not hating women come from?

This seems like the first step when you stop being a nice guy. You no longer feel the need to be nice to people who aren't nice to you or who are being unpleasant. Its an interesting realization when you realize that you were raised to be so nice and respectful towards women but they weren't raised to be that way towards you.

Very interesting. Can you expand more on what you mean by "getting numb towards what women feel". In what way? I do think that just comes with being more grounded and less outcome dependent and validation seeking. However I'm curious to know what your perspective on it is?

Wow its amazing that you were able to take so much action. Whst was going through your head before you approached? How did you deal with the resistance if you felt any?

You overuse the word. Many people here barely have their survival needs met and are talking about how spiritually elevated and mature they are. The word is overused. Often by people who fail to connect with regular people. Its easy to call them immature. How developed are you if you can't shoot the shit with regular people. This thread here is about dating. People act like because they're so concious they shouldn't have to play any games. This actually shows a lack of conciousness because you obviously have to give someone what they want which is to be teased, playing with tension and to chase etc.

I noticed that in the forum in general a patternI have noticed for months you calling people immature. What is your meaning of immature?

The topic of self-amusement is controversial when talking about improving with women because. Almost every time it’s discussed it’s generally mentioned with the caveat of “Don’t be a clown” or “dancing monkey”. And I’ve seen the dancing monkey stuff happening and I’ve done some weird things for self-amusement myself. I noticed a stark difference in how naturals self-amuse versus other guys wether they’re learning to improve with women or not. Naturals always look high value/ cool when they self-amuse. Whereas other guys often don’t. I’ve heard guys say it doesn’t matter how you dance just as long as you are enjoying yourself that’s all that matters but it’s not true. If you are dancing in a completely off-beat, off-melody way which I’ve seen actual autistic people do you look like you have low social value/ uncool. It’s not even that you need to be a good dancer but jumping up and down as if you’re listening to Metallica when a melodic song is playing on the speakers in the club make you look out of touch and socially uncouth. Self amusing is about feeling good in your own body. It really is just having fun it’s the same thing. Guys who are bad at self-amusement - Don’t understand that it’s just about having fun - overcompensation - trying too hard to keep the girls attention - There’s a lack of groundedness in their self amusement - Jumping up and down and dancing wildly (I believe we can tell that they are overcompensating for attention that’s why it comes across as clownish) - They have the vibe of the child that's like "mommy look" and they do something and then look at their mother for a reaction Overall it’s silliness from an overcompensating place it seems for the girls attention and a lack of intent. The girl is in charge of the interaction How I’ve seen naturals self-amuse (these are just a few examples - Flirting - Giving the girl a fake name - Getting the girl to sue - Push/Pull - Teasing - Showing disapproval - Pretending to be gay especially with their male friends - Making the girl chase even though they know they want her anyway. Ex. They cut off attention to the girl and treat her like she’s a spoiled brat for trying to interrupt him - Playfully yelling at people - Mocking girls - Treating girls like children - Giving the girl a role or role-playing ex. Pretending like you know each other from middle school when you actually don’t - Refusing to engage with logic or answer questions - Dancing (they look cool when they dance though they’re not doing it awkwardly or because they feel they have to) I’ve seen that for naturals it comes from a place not taking on other people’s frames, maintaining their own frame and not taking anybody seriously. But there is a time to not be silly. It’s mixed in with actually getting to know someone and the intent is there. They are in charge of the interaction You can learn self-amusement from girls too. I’m still learning this stuff myself.

Karisma King is a great teacher who has reached excellence in dating. Look up his youtube channel

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Do you think this makes you holier than thou? That you have chemistry but are not thinking about sex? Not sure why you had this thought process that its Awesome haha. Fix your social programming. Its kinda insulting and disrespectful to be hanging out with a girl you have strong chemistry with and not be thinking about sex.

The guys I've know to get laid the most are simply cool guys who are fun, charming, bold, high sex drive and barely work. They actuallyoperatein a way that's against what society pushes.

I think too many spiritual people try to deny the physical world that they live in and and it comes out in unconcious ways like this. There is this harmful idea in the spiritual community that you transcend your sexual desires once you become enlightened. Why can't you be enlightened and also wanna fuck a lotta women at the same time. I'm not enlightened so I wouldn't know but this denying of sex leads to stuff like this

Bro this girl still has feelings over this guy it seems. She's not some innocent fairy in this situation. Girls choose these men. I dare you to ask her was there anything she liked about the abuse. And push for an answer. Many women who have been in domestic violence relationships report having the best sex of their lives in domestic violence relationships. There is a high chance she will get bored of you for not abusing her. If you are emotionally healthy go be with a girl who is also emotionally healthy not some girl who likes domestic violence. You think her ex wis a POS but you'll soon find out she was exactly where she wanted to be

I have a similar experience of being sexually shamed by my mother at a young age just not to the extreme that you've been. You may be unaware of just how much trauma you are holding. I see that you are really good at intellectualizing your problems and you are aware of what they are but that doesn't actually get rid of them. To release this trauma try something called Somatic Experiencing. It's one of the most effective ways to release trauma and results come quickly. You wrote a lot can you just be clear in one sentence what your moral issues are? However if you believe that caring about personality before looks or not viewing women sexually somehow makes you moral it absolutely does not. It just means you are disconnected from your sexuality.

Interesting. Thought they were one and the same. Spiritual gurus have made it seem like awakening makes you moral and just and care about all beings.