Ayham

Fair, you can see how society also developed over time from blue, to orange, to green. One could also argue that certain societies were orange and became blue, or Iran for example which was very liberal and became...this after the Islamic revolution. Or some materialist scientist, turned into a religious blue priest. Or some hippie green person, became into a dogmatic blue religious person. All of those happen in our complex society. How would you argue that the levels in spiral dynamics are in that order? You could say that someone is 40% orange, 60% green, and he goes back to orange unconsciously to fully integrate it, but that's not really falsifiable. I could make a model as follows: red, blue, green, orange and it would be unfalsifiable the same way. I am just curious to hear various inputs, from everyone.

@Leo Gura I have used spiral dynamics as a lens for long, it has been life changing, and reading Ken Wilber as well, but I would be curious to hear your answer if someone were to ask: how do you know spiral dynamics is not bullshit?

good point

I see, good work!

Yes, each person can be different, have you looked into Kriya yoga and pranayama type stuff? that can suit you more for calming rather than samatha And yes I do look forward to experiencing 5 meo, and I like your description, I am stealing it

Yes you can be aware of awareness, or do self abiding without building up to good concentration or a calm mind, but it would be hard to maintain, something you only do during your session, and probably not as deep. Calm the mind, then, do non dual practice such as self inquiry or being aware of awareness, then try to expand that to your day to day life. I can't speak about psychedelics because I have no direct experience yet.

Good perspective!

Check out bernando kastrup analytic idealism

One needs to build up to that

We should do a challenge on who's more terrible in this

Interesting answers, keep going people

@Ramanujan how would you define "good" and "bad" people?

Hey! Good that you acknowledge this, yes face your fears and it will get easier. I have been here for like 3 years or 4, and I only have like 500 posts lol, I don't know how some people here have thousands, I see much newer accounts with thousands of posts.

Nope, still cans are the best! You are the best

You could have contemplated and practiced the topic during this time and came to an even better understanding, you still can.

There are various levels to good intentions, while I agree everyone acts from good intentions, there are levels: Acting with good intentions to yourself: because you are still selfish, you can't see beyond yourself, so in your worldview, good intentions take only you into account Acting with good intentions towards people you care about: you are less selfish, you act with good intentions towards maybe your friends, family, maybe your nation, your religion, etc. Acting with good intentions towards everyone: which also has levels, depending on how selfless you are. So someone causing a genocide or whatever, would be acting with good intentions towards themselves, or their group, because that's all they can see, and they believe they are the ultimate right. We are redefining good in this context, it is a way to understand others without demonizing them. Again, try to independently contemplate Leo's stuff before believing in them, I understand that sometimes we do believe in stuff without thinking them through, we all have this tendency, we must notice it and not act on it. In conversation, engage with Hegelian Dialectic, try to come to a synthesis that integrates both opposing views, leading to a better understanding. You got this!

1. I started with "start here" section in https://www.actualized.org/start, I watched all the intro videos, and the foundational videos, and afterwards I watched a lot of the new videos, but I think even though Leo changed my life, he has nothing more to offer, his content is repetitive to me at this point. 2. I do take notes on books and videos, but not Leo's, I used the actualized textbook and summaries thread to review stuff. 3. I have a goal of reading all the 5 starts in the booklist, I have read a fair amount so far (I also have the goal of completing Daniel berger list, which I find more serious and intellectual). 4. yes 5. it is rare to find someone or content that doesn't hold a specific worldview as sacred, questions all world views and uses all lenses, he even questions spirituality, that's what I like. 6. yes, and yes 7. I am struggling with doing stuff I don't feel like doing, but I am disciplining myself and trying to enjoy it.

This book is just gold, I made this post to encourage anyone who hasn't read it to read it.

@UpperMaster Okay here is how I understand it, your purpose reveals itself to you in solitude and silence. When you are distracted by the "feminine" or chaos, or thoughts, or whatever, you are constantly lost in the day to day activities, he describes life purpose as layers, like an onion, you have a superficial layer, which might be... build a sexy body and get bitches, then maybe a bit deeper layer which might be... get a car and a house... then something like contribute to society or family or whatever, the deepest layer would be spiritual realization. So, your current purpose changes constantly, you must sit in silence, in solitude, undistracted by the "feminine" and it will reveal itself to you, this can be done by just going on a retreat, taking a day off and just sitting with yourself with no distractions, etc. Until you exhaust this purpose, which you will know when you feel so easy and capable and used to it, you just don't see the point anymore, it lost meaning to you, then you retreat into solitude and a new purpose emerges, a new layer of the onion peeled. To be honest that's how I understood it, Leo's approach is cool, these are all maps, none of them is an objective truth, mix and combine. Sitting as awareness undistracted would mean, basically just sitting, not trying a specific meditation technique or doing something or reading or whatever, just being and sitting, doing nothing.

Got it. In my opinion, that applies to all self-help books, which is why I only listen to them as audiobooks, and keep the actual reading to heavier things, like science or philosophy or whatever.

No problem! Actually i think you in particular would like it, assuming from my limited knowledge about you from some forum posts

It was pretty insightful to me as someone who doesn't really have experience with relationships yet, I'm still 17

quite poetic huh

I am going through a sensemaking crisis, I am trying to stay in it as I believe it is useful to generate true understanding. This has happened due to reading so much stuff of contradicting nature. Reading books on idealism, reading books on science, reading books on materialism, reading books on logic, reading books on various spiritual paths, reading books on various philosophies, books on various religions, etc. I literally don't know what to believe anymore. I am trying to use it an opportunity to navigate and switch between multiple lenses, but it is actually paralyzing me in real life, for example, I abandoned spiritual practice because I just can't choose one out of so many, I am not able to have meaningful conversations because I don't really know where I stand anymore, spiral dynamics was useful but that too is just another lens, I am too wary of self deception to actually decide on anything. I want to stay in this state in order to gain true understanding, rather than rush to a comfortable choice and cling to it as dogma. Yet it is not really practical to live in. --- (rant below, sorry) This is also accompanied by the constant ridicule by most of my blue middle eastern culture. In middle school, I used to have a reputation for being a "disbeliever" lol, very few kids wanted to be friends with me, and those that did still ridiculed me. In high school, I got better at handling social situations, I was able to form friends even if from dogmatic beliefs, I did my best to understand them, talk to them from their worldview, and integrate stage blue, and I actually ended up studying orthodox Islam so in depth just to integrate it and not make it a shadow. But I hate how most of my social circle takes me as "lost in his mind", "deluded", some even literally think i am almost insane because I am "weird" I literally laugh at their face at all of this, I learned to not care, but sometimes I do end up caring. I feel a form of existential loneliness haunting me every day, no human mind can get mine, not in an arrogant sense, it is just that no human mind can get another human mind the same way it gets itself. And this loneliness just.... haunts me. I feel like, finding love or a high quality loving girlfriend would help a lot, but I don't want to be dependent, and also finding a girl like that in my culture is like finding a needle in a haystack. I am about to start college, I feel like a pseudo intellectual, I have a lot of knowledge in so many fields, I am too much of a generalist, I am trying to learn computer science and cybersecurity and marketing and real life skills, I have been volunteering, making connections, and getting certificates to my CV, I am not sure if I can leave my country, I come from a very poor family, my father is rich but he left us many years ago, I am literally responsible to take care of my family and I am unable to do that yet. Thoughts of solipsism haunt me every day, I am not even sure why I am posting in a forum with "other people". I am too ambitious and hard on myself, yet I also feel like I might have ADHD, I don't meet my standards at all, I can't even make good sense of the world or be consistent in all the habits I want to do, I know people my age doing better than me. I have no results in anything I read a lot but I feel uneducated and like a pseudo intellectual I train but I am skinny as fuck, though I admit I only train in summer holidays, but after finishing school recently I won't quit now I eat a very healthy diet and I have terrible cystic acne I meditate but that goes nowhere, I can't stick to a spiritual path, one day I do kriya, one day Buddhism, one day Sufism, at this point I am too overwhelmed and disappointed to choose anything at this point How the fuck am I supposed to live life and make sense of it? I took a 3 days at home retreat a month or so ago to answer this question, I got cool answers but nothing is changing. I am genuinely sorry if I ranted too much

okay, I will play the devil's advocate, I will try to prove why I am "not enough" or "unlovable", and see if you can convince me (Hegelian dialectic at its finest) 1. welll, let's see, for example if a 40 years old man comes, and he: has no skills whatsoever, has no experience in anything, isn't really bright, isn't really hardworking, hasn't really tried to do well, has zero social skills. Would I call him enough? no if it was someone with a mental disability, or an incapable child? sure, they would still be enough Is it an objective thing? no, but that's just the standard I choose to apply on people, it depends on: their starting point, their capabilities, their goals, etc. This 40 years old guy could be good enough in his standards, or someone else's, but not in mine. following this logic, I would say, considering that I had the opportunity to be and to do much more, I would say I am not enough in my subjective standards. And this applies to other people who had opportunity and capability, but didn't use it. I know a lot of people who I still consider "not enough", and few others I would consider "enough" 2. I feel ugly because: I am too skinny, I have bad facial features, I have a lot of acne, I have no idea how to dress well. Okay, I am convinced by the point that a girl can't reject you, my value doesn't change just because a girl refused to want to be with me, got it, but it still affects self esteem, I feel like I have to be more attractive, or work on myself harder to be able to be lovable, in a romantic sense i mean. The thing about my father, I would agree that it doesn't make me unlovable or anything, I don't have that as a belief, but I am saying that it could be a subconscious belief I am not aware of. Maybe we do have innate value as humans, but I choose to apply certain standards on myself, as well as others, otherwise I wouldn't really get anywhere.