Bobby_2021

I was talking about his *actions*. The things he did do not speak anything to say he clung to the past. That's many things but that isn't characteristic of conservatism. You cannot deny that. It isn't a typical liberal either. It's just a version of radical liberalism. He was exercising his freedom to the max, the freedom to kill and eliminate all the un-aaryan race from the gene pool. Freedom at the cost of exploitation of others is not a foreign concept to liberalism. It doesn't fit the definition of liberalism, but that's what happens in reality. It's the liberals of the time that championed colonialism and progressive slave ownership. On a similar note: Do you think Trump clings to the past glory of America like he says? No. He will say whatever makes a the average normie conservative republicans wet. Just like Andrew Tate pays lip service to conservative ideology. They don't believe what they say and hence they are not true conservatives. Their audience are conservatives. Trump isn't a typical conservative. He leads the most degenerative life that's not reflective of conservatism, and simply coopted the conservative ideology as a means of power grab. In fact he was a former liberal democrat. If Stalin is a ruthless dictator who used progressive ideology to garner power for himself, it's not hard to think that Hitler, Trump, Tate are all people who lead lives that were not conservative, but tyrants who coopted and payed lip service to conservative ideology. How do I know that these right wing tyrants are not conservative? Because of their actions.

@Novac08 Do you think they(Hitler) appealed to conservative folks merely as a technique to garner support for their revolutionary/progressive world view? Nothing hitler did is what a conservative should do, since a leader is by definition a visionary. A liberal with a forward thinking plan for himself and his people.

By low development of people, you mean the apple executives including the CEO. Am I right? There is nothing stopping them opening manufacturing plant in the US or paying better salaries for the plants they open in third world countries. But they exploits people and convince liberals by gay ceo. This is their playbook. This is like bombing people on a plane while the pilot is LGBTQ so all is fine. It too east to have someone as a gay ceo. It's doesn't take too much work. Anyone can put up a website and write things that pander to liberals. Just give the solution already. What is the green solution? Green is not the solution to the problems of the last stage. Rather, the last stage runs to completion and as a consequence, you move to the next stage. You cannot solve orange problem by pushing for green. That's not how that works. This is something I agree. But that doesn't fit into the traditional notion of liberalism. Do you think that Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos is a liberal? They advocate for massive changes in society and work towards it. But they wouldn't be considered as liberal today, atleast not politically. If you can agree that Elon Musk is a liberal, then I can agree with everything you said. There is a huge challenge in assessing who is a liberal and who is a conservative. I don't believe that you can exploit people to death, appoint some gay or women to be the CEO and claim to be progressive. I am not being cynical of green. I am against exploiting people and whitewashing it all as progressive green stuff. Aka conservatism, going by their actions. Yellow is all about embodying conservatism and applying it to systems. It's about making the tiniest changes that it doesn't even record as a change. Much like evolution. This is the only right way to deal with giant complicated system. This is also where I fundamentally disagree that right is inherently lower than the left. Because the left can be just as dangerous when they come up with whacky ideas and burn everything down to ground, thereby undoing years of progress in the process. For ex: Unchecked immigration. That spiral is just a vague model that someone came up with. EDT is much better in my opinion. SD allows room for too much misinterpretation and flexibility. Reality doesn't strictly adhere to SD model. True liberal thinking, must have some impact on society if it has to be relevant. And that doesn't have in liberal circles, but in corporate and economic world. A true liberal wouldn't even fit well within these places because it would be too limiting for them.

Except that there is no solution. Definitely not a solution that Green liberals can bring. You simply say green woowo bs will solve everything, but doesn't give any exact path that explains how it will solve these problems. Green is not an action oriented ideology at all. Unlike the capitalists. If there is any solution at all, that is coming from capitalists who make capital to do the work. The only solution to stop modern day slavery is more capitalism. It is to build capital that does the slave labour for you so that people will not be exploited. Green liberals are not doing the work for that for sure. They are the ones standing in the way when it comes to building capital. For ex in Nuclear energy. ---------- Liberalism is a constant failure when it comes to policy decisions for a reason. You simply cannot orchestrate massive changes to any large and complex system. You have to be conservative and gentle or else the backlash from the system will be too harsh and the price will be too large. Liberalism almost never works in big systems. At the individual level, it is somewhat okay, given that you are a direct beneficiary of exploitation, or even the individual itself becomes a complex system too sensitive to changes, rendering liberalism a waste.

Slavery was justified in the name of bringing civilization to savages. The liberals of the day were the powerful slave owners. They were the ones who set out to the sails the seas to find and enslave new tribes. Leo is using the standards of today to judge people of the past and attributing all the shit they did to conservatives. But in reality those powerful people who did all the slavery were liberals of the time. That's conveniently ignored. Conservatives of the were the broke slaves who did all the labour. Even today, the liberal world is the direct beneficiary of third world exploitation and slavery. The liberal world view can be sustained only in abundance, which can be facilitated only by stealing from the productivity of the slave labour. Back then, the most forward thinking people had to be slave owners for a reason. That's the only way they could free up their mind to think liberally. In what sense did any of the things that hitler did was "clinging to the past". He was a bleeding edge liberal it seems. Because he envisioned a utopia that no one before has thought of before. He orchestrated radical changes in society which conservatives argue against. Conservative position is to maintain the status quo. What hitler did was to radically alter the fabric of society itself. Going by the simply definition of change = liberal. Clinging to status quo/past = conservative. Hiter tried to orchestrate massive changes to society. That that saw the end of him. The question is if they can sustain their liberalist world view without third world exploitation? And also can you mention the green aspects that apple has outside of their technical innovation, which is essentially the work of an orange cold capitalist. Their green outlook is all talk and virtue signalling. Even in the US they are playing crony capitalist style monopolistic games. Just because they have a gay ceo is enough for them to become progressive? Apple could choose to set up their factories within US soil and be as liberal as they want. But they didn't choose to do it. Like Andrew Tate, they set up their manufacturing in third world countries with loose human rights laws where you can work those people to death. And many people have killed themselves by working in these factories.

@aurum Do you think Apple Corporation is conservative or liberal? All relevant info was included in my post you quoted. I chose the Apple case since this is a practical situation that we both are familiar with and you can engage in as much nuance as necessary.

On the other hand, those rapists were liberals exercising their freedom to free sex and abundance. Those who refrain from giving free sex were the ones who were too conservative and regressive in nature. They simply were not open enough to enjoy sex like bold liberals. You can spin these things any way you want.

What are your standards for being "healthy"? And why is capitalism *inherently* unhealthy? As long as you don't go wolf of Wall Street style capitalism, it's good enough. The problem is when people think they are too smart to replace it comes up with some crap that's even worse. Healthy markets and economy is a function of the government. They set the rules.

Liberals want to undo capitalism. They don't distinguish excessive capitalism and normal capitalism. Capitalism == Exploitation, in their minds. Also the terms liberals are simply referring to left wing liberals in America and not what I strictly mean by liberalism. As it turns out, the right wing is the one who champions most liberal values at the moment, except for abortion rights.

The right wing is easy to identify and criticize. Nobody denied Hitler was right wing. And although hitler was not a conservative, strictly speaking, he did appeal to a conservative mind. But a conservative mind would never do the things a hitler do. These things are not even denied. Obvious. The problem is that people make it hard to identify left wing. Communists always play this game. >First they implement some bullshit leftist utopian vision. >Kill hundred million people. >Oppsie we were right wing all along. You can maintain this fluidity and bitch about implementing any far left policy and claim that people who failed it were simply right wing. This is giving us reasons to be more genuinely conservative. This is why people don't really understand or value the terms like socialism or even communism. It doesn't really mean anything. Because once they fail, it was not socialism afterall. Because by definition socialism is heaven. As long as heaven is not reached, it's not socialism. Liberals should limit their talking points to individual rights and what pertains to individual freedoms. Like LGBTQ, Privacy, Free Speech, abortion rights, Right to free health care etc. Even letting them talk about healthcare is already a huge stretch, but we can allow it. Liberals should not be talking about how to run a society or nation as a whole. They will run it down to ruins if they are allowed to talk about such stuff. They go no idea how the world functions as a whole. Also conservatives should stop talking about individual freedoms, because they do not value it.

@NightHawkBuzz Look into starting your marketing agency or smma. Big money to be made in there, still.

Words do not matter at all. If you can assert that CCP, Putin, Xi, Kim are all right wing fanatics even though they purport textbook left wing nonsense, words do not matter at all. Was Soviet Russia left wing or right wing? Nah bro they are orange capitalists using liberal brainwashing to maintain their green image. They don't believe in the things they say. Google is pretty much like Soviet Union. Speak progressive stuff, and then do monopolistic capitalist stuff when no one is watching. Same with Microsoft and Apple. You cannot deny this because thier hypocrisy so obvious. Well, you can judge them whatever you want. But if you want to create utopia, then you need plenty of slave labour. Liberals want to create utopia, but they are opposed to slave labour. They even employe slave labour in secrecy. Which is why I day they are not the liberals they think they are. Look at actions. Google exploits slave labour. All those hippie silicon valley startups will lose their hippie outlook once they run out of investors money. Apple literally exploits the living fuck out of third world countries and their lose laws on human rights. But they have a gay ceo so all is fine. You are beyond naive when you say that capitalism is being phase out lmao. We have more capitalism than ever. This is why I say liberalism is a facade that can be maintained only by brainwashing people into being in a bubble. Apple wouldn't exist without slavery. Get that first. Do I blame Apple? Not really. They have created a fantastic product on top of exploiting slave labour from China and Bangladesh. Props to them. Congratulations to you as well now you can purport more liberal brainwashing on using products built from slave labour. So my question is to you is, is Apple left wing liberal or right wing conservative?

The collective development of a society depends upon the circumstances that the they found themselves in. Not necessarily because they were highly developed to begin with. Likewise, Utopias you dream of, do not happen because of "higher development" of the people. These hippies do nothing to push society forward, and hence they are not really the bleeding edge liberals they think they are. Leftist hippies are quite underdeveloped compared to many orange capitalists. It's a complicated topic that needs some uncovering on the systemic skipped & stunted development of the hippies. Utopias happen due to the grinding work of the capitalists and the so called right wing conservatives and the slave labour they employ. But you think they are underdeveloped and that's blatantly wrong. ----------- Also the discussion is to find out who are the conservatives and who are the Liberals since people can speak of anything they want. That doesn't mean anything to their status of development. You should look at what they are *doing* to assess their development. This thread doesn't even touch that kind of depth of assessment.

This maneuver took 500 years.

@EdgeGod900 haha got it. What you think about work and what you might end up actually doing may be a lot different. So be sure that social work is indeed in alignment with your values. So obviously you have to go do it for a year or two to make sure it is in alignment with your values or not. These think tanks usually are propaganda machines of their donors. Does it always have to be the case? Nope. But it is the case a lot of times. They may not be interested in orchestrating systemic changes to societies. They are also in the business of survival and that corrupts their work as well. At the end of the day, your plan in the micro domain also matters in the long run. I am not pushing anything but I just wanted to make the options out there for him. Sorry if I came across otherwise.

Just do it already.

@Nivsch There are several reportings from reputed agencies like BBC that says that the IDF has been blocking food trucks from entering Gaza. Seems trustable. Israel has nothing to gain from them starving or not starving. But having killed 2 million people will stay with them forever if that's what this is going to end in. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68478831 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68486248

Hey man do you like coding? I recently discovered the rust programming language and I love it. Something tells me that you might like it. Because it's pretty intellectually stimulating, atleast for me. It won't be easy but it's possible to get jobs with some effort. Have you joined college already?

All of that is true, but they should just allow a bunch of food trucks to pass through. That's no big deal I suppose. I always defended Israel's decision to attack and kill terrorists, even when it comes at significant collateral damage and civilian casualties. But you can't starve those 2 million people to death. This is starting to look like a real genocide, if they are being starving to death. This will never look good on Israel.

The job market is wrecked at the moment. It's not your fault. Going to do masters may not be the best idea. Degrees do not matter as much as they used to. You have to earn name by doing free work of some kind. This is the only solution for the moment that you could do.

Never ask a German company what they did between 1925 and 1945.😅

This conversation is heavily skewed into favouring left wing as if everything lower down the spiral is inherently right wing. You cannot create wealth and freedom with Egalitarianism. You cannot create a left wing utopia and still have egalitarianism and equality. Utopias are created by capitalism. Slavery was required to build walls which created a small utopia at the time. You cannot have freedom(liberalism), equality(Egalitarianism) and wealth(Capitalism). You can pick 2 at best, if that's even possible at all. You cannot create AI without massive exploitation and crony capitalism. If you want massive wealth, you need hierarchies & crony capitalism. We do not have enough Capitalism in the world today. Capitalism and hierarchies has contributed more to the "utopian" vision than egalitarianism ever did and will ever do. Yes, they want to accumulate massive wealth for themselves, but they are also bringing massive wealth into the economy. The most egalitarian societies are built under slavery, oppression and sterilization of minorities and weak people and they also managed to whitewash their history.

Let's be real. You wouldn't let her do that and rightly so. It's okay to not give up to the angry leftists and have strong family values. The propensity for women to get fucked over is not little. You can let her learn her lessons and grow. But I would rather not have her go through all that.

You are not allowed criticize Islam like you do with others. Although there are many countries that ban it.