Bobby_2021

🥵 Hot If she has the slightest bit of honour left in her, she should resign. She will be more respected that way.

😭

They lost a war against America. And as a result they got into a terrible condition. What else were they supposed to feel? Their hate for America is totally valid. In their mind America is responsible for their suffering. And they might not be that wrong. The dissolution of the USSR was one of the greatest catastrophes in the 20th century.

Ukraine, then USSR was never free of western involvement. They were literally at war with each other. USSR was always under sanctions by the US during the cold war that Leo had to take a shit in a hole in the ground. That is because the US overthrew every single one of allies of the USSR by bombing, invading and sanctioning them. So obviously they were under severe economic strain. If the USSR could trade freely with the rest of the world, then Leo could have bought a toilet. One strength of the US is that it is good at dominating other countries into subjugation and covert and overt violence. So the US won over the USSR by sheer force. Hence they were left in abject poverty. That is not because of internal corruption. It is because they lost a war. US defeated the USSR. Hence USSR were economically stifled into dissolution among other factors. Period. -------------------------------- The US again got involved in the internal matters of Ukraine by ousting their democratically elected leader in 2014. No matter how corrupt they were, Ukraine went downhill from there on. The point is that Leo does not take into account the larger context in which things happen and just blame people for being corrupt. Maybe explore why they are corrupt? Nah that is too complex. This is good enough to flex on this forum, but there will be someone who have more context than you. And that will be Truth. Not yours.

And how is it looking after western involvement? I hope there will be a Ukraine after the end of the year. West got it from bad to worse. From poverty to death. Which is why I say nothing good comes from western intervention. Ukraine left on it's own will modernize itself. But you know the deep state wouldn't allow it.

What countries are you talking about? If it is about India, then yes, our infrastructure has been mismanaged for a little over 300 years by the British rule. It will take some time to get back on track. Centuries of exploitation will not reversed in a few decades. That's not how it works. I know it's completely our fault, but you shouldn't interpret that out of context.

Biden didn't need to stop running for president. They just had to stop reminding him.

What spoon feeding are you talking about? I did most of the spoon feeding you and you didn't even take the effort to address it. Especially Ukraine and Afganistan situation while plainly denying in the case of Iran with no explanation of any sort. That not soon feeding bruh that a lazy ass response. I did most of the effort in digging up materials, historical examples and got only lazy responses from you that didn't add much to the conversation. I consider this conversation to be over. I might point out the devilry though. Most people are unaware of it.

Mutual interest is what you call business and trade, where either parties get paid fairly. We should do as much trade as possible. Guess what stands in the way. SANCTIONS. "let us steal your oil or get sanctioned" Mutual interest is not what the west wants. They want criminal domination, enacted with sanctions. Most foreign interventions, in reality, serve no one's interests in the long term. Look at how Iran has become the biggest pain in the ass for Is***l and US.

Denying is so important. Do you know what's the first thing that American officers did after their embassy was raided by Iranian youth? They panicked and shredded all the documents related to the coup of 1953. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publications/iran/irdoc.html The students then reassembled it back. Denying the US intervention means that they could twist this as a reaction against progressivism and secularism. The western puppet shah was indeed imposing rapid secularism in a contrived fashion. They were intentionally destroying the identity of a country so that they could exploit their natural resources. It's devilry of the highest sort. It's an engineering more than anything. See: Covert Regime Change operations. ----- Now imagine if CIA didn't declassify these documents for some reason. What if all the details of foreign intervention was kept a secret.(They didn't do it voluntarily anyway) You could argue that the Islamic resistance/fundamentalism was against progressive policies imposed by the dictatorial shah. That's what they expect you to do. ------ Coming back to Ukraine, you will have to wait another 60 years for the CIA to declassify the documents related to the coup of democratically elected leader of Ukraine in 2014. Till then there is plausible deniability of western involvement in the coup and the ousting of their democratically leader. Iran had a shit ton of oil. Ukraine has 10 Trillion worth of natural resources buried under it. They don't even hide their intentions at this point: Just like foreign intervention and subsequent sanctions turned Iran into a rump state, Ukraine is headed into the same path. Same playbook, different places and different times. Few see it through.

What are you even saying? Here is what you are saying: "Development is really complicated" "You guys are brainwashed" "Overthrowing democracy and foreign intervention has nothing to do with regression in development" "Progressivism in anywhere but the west is "unsustainable"......" Loool "western progressivism and eastern underdevelopment has nothing to do with stealing Trillions from the global South on a yearly basis." Lolololol. Try making an actual case for what you saying with historical examples instead of making haphazard statements that could be interpreted ambiguously. I am not saying you are wrong, but you are not making a good case for it. Look at how I made my case. I drew a strict timeline of how social order was disrupted resulting in regression of development, by foreign intervention with many examples. I don't think this point should be a point of contention. Foreign intervention is for advancing foreign interests. Not local interests. Understanding that point alone is enough. I have given n number of examples in this thread. Geography and other factors being a bottleneck to development is rare. Even that doesn't give you a reason to exploit them, though.

Using the Nukes is not a serious possibility I guess. Where are they going to even drop it? But hey never underestimate their stupidity.

Israel cannot lose so many men. It will lead to an internal destabilization of their society from the inside out. So the numbers don't mean much at all. I don't think US can give a lot of support. They don't have so many weapons to give away to be honest. Their stockpiles have been depleted by sending it all to Ukraine. US did a mistake by focusing on high tech equipment like F35, since it would lead to larger profits, and not artillery shells, ammunition which is what decides the fate in battlefield. Since when did US win a convincing war in the middleast against a formidable opponent? Not even once. They choose to bomb poor impoverished regions and still lose. The Islamic resistance forces are far more stronger than they were years ago and they are prepared for this. When I am saying I am seriously concerned I really do mean it.

He is stronger now. -------------------- Seriously concerned for Israel. They are dragging themselves into war they cannot, forgetting winning, but even sustain.

The west institutionalise collective punishment as a weapon. Like sanctions imposed on Russia. It doesn't affect Putin or his buddies in the worst case. But they still do it so that the population has to suffer. Same with Iran and North Korea. These sanction only suffocate the average folk. So people has this idea in their mind that if some govt is doing bad shit, they have to enforce some sort of collective punishment on the average citizen who have no clue what's going on. This may lead to racism as a second order effect. But it is racism to sanction Russian athletes and artists taking away their opportunities for something Putin is doing.

@Karmadhi Israel is a beautiful country I like to visit once. The problem is that the entire western attitude of grouping together people into one blob and hating them for something that some leaders did. For example there was plenty of Russophobia after the Ukraine special military operation in Feb 2022. The hate against Russian general populace was so avid that the west feels like it needed to sanction athletes and artists from participating in events as a form of *collective punishment*. This collective punishment is totally unwarranted. But that is a creation of the west in the first place. Goes to show how the hate always somehow finds a way back.

Kamala harris is insufferably incoherent. I cannot get myself listen to her speak. She definitely losing with this unlikable personality.

Overthrowing a democratically leader, stealing their oil and siphoning their natural wealth to mega corporations in the west, and as if all of that is not enough, sanctioning them and anyone who does business with them is the epitome of secularism and progressivism. I wonder why you didn't mention freedom and democracy as well with secularism and progressivism. That's a match made in hell. Thanks to the CIA women have to wear Burqas instead of Bikinis now. 😂

You better not infringe on your partners sovereignty like United States infringes on the sovereignty of liberal leftist democratic states.

" No Leo, women wearing bikinis in Iran was made possible only due to the hard work of many people including many American missionaries. It does point to systematic painstaking developmental efforts over a long period of time that was making astounding progress till 1979. At times it was met with resistance from rural parts of the country. They pushed it slowly and steadily regardless. Imagine if they also had the wealth of their own oil fields, coupled with a progressive establishment instead of losing it to British and the Americans. As if overthrowing their democracy isn't enough, they even imposed sanctions on the Iranian people to further subjugate them even today. All of it is supposed to have no effects on their development. Nice joke. This is criminal domination 101 with all means possible combined with victim blaming. In short, western intervention is to blame and nothing else. There are no "other factors" bullshit.

The whole problem is the genocidal state of Is***l's lobby has the US congress by the balls. And the genocidal state wants nothing but total domination. So they drag US to random wars and destabilize the living shit out of middle east. Then blame islamic fundamentalism. All of it will come back to bite it's own ass.

I cannot help it. Leo is fundamentally biased with western dogma even though he himself is Ukrainian. I don't know how it this even possible. How can you sit and watch you own people getting subjugated by western capitalist interests while you blame them for their "lack of development". In an older thread, Leo explained how the liberal outlook of California is what attracted billions wealth, eventually leading California being richer than many countries. This is in part to being California's geography and it being the last to be colonized. But when I pointed out that Indian subcontinent was the wealthiest part of the world before British colonisation, suddenly he pointed out that wealth doesn't equal development. California being the last to get colonized makes it liberal and highly developed and wealthy, according to his own words. But India being colonized and looted for 200 years is itself responsible for the lack of development, and has nothing to do with colonization. Lmao I can't.

https://imgur.com/gallery/iran-1970s-before-islamic-revolution-pmiVZFM Please don't come back at me with CIA rhetoric that Islamic revolution did the damage in 1979 as if it happened in a vaccum. Research how the Islamic revolution came to be. Think about why the middle east has become so destabilized. You are so close. Do some research. Ask to Claude 3.5 Sonnet.

Let's do a few case studies. We are arguing too much in abstractions. Talk about the real world. 1. Do you think overthrowing the democratically elected president of Iran in 1953 by the CIA was the primary reason for the lack of development of Iran today? Keep in mind the crippling sanctions imposed on Iran too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Iran#:~:text=In this period%2C women were,political activism to some extent. We can use women's rights in Iran as a gauge for development. 2. Do you think expanding NATO into Ukraine and selling their land to BlackRock for pennies on the dollar has resulted in their lack of development now? [ Think about all the crimes that are about to rise, Demographic collapse and widow villages ] 3. Do you think the back to back Invasions of Afganistan has resulted in their stunted devlopment ? How was Afganistan back before 1979? Again, use women's rights as a gauge for development. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/womens-rights-in-afghanistan-a-timeline?slide=2 Keep in mind that women got the right to vote in Afganistan one year before women in the freaking United States of America. @Leo Gura Take your time and tell me what you think about it.

Please tell me why these things happen. What's truly at stake? I am listening.