Bobby_2021

It takes more vision to light a spark from scratch than for that scratch to become a wildfire. Musk had a vision. But the foundation was already set for him, more or less. Growing a company from scratch needs more vision than coming in between and taking it over. If Musk wants credit for Vision, he should have founded a company rather than playing corporate politics to oust their visionary founder. Are you going to say that Zuckerberg is a visionary for buying up WhatsApp and Instagram when they were making losses and getting it to be billions in profit later lmao? Consider that my noise in this thread which is far below your alien consciousness. I don't want to deal with your triggered response. The only self deception I did was to think that you were open minded and open to considering multiple perspectives and only because you marketed yourself as such. You are no different than Musk lol.

The most funny thing of all is people accusing me of being leftist/progressive while I am a right leaning individual in most of my takes. I simply have to acknowledge correct things from either perspectives. Damn stop getting so triggered. I am not a leftist.

@Leo Gura Again I don't tolerate factual errors. It's okay to admit that Musk took someone's else's vision and executed it to perfection. It's the same story with Jobs and Wozniak. Does emphasising Wozniak takes away something from Jobs? I guess yeah. That's a balanced perspective. Emphasizing Martin take away something from Musk too. At the same time Musk is also a genius. You have to be comfortable with that. You get so touchy when you don't get to frame things the way exactly you want it to perfection. Jeez. I asked you simple questions for which you had no answer. It was a simple question, which I will ask again. Was X country better or worse from Y country intervention? I discussed historical examples for X and Y which are all noise to you. You merely throw accusations and claims to authority. Cheap.

WTF Leo. I just gave you a fact. It was not Musk's vision. It was not his company. It's just a fact I pulled from wikipedia. That doesn't take away what he did with it. He managed the company brilliantly. But it was not his idea. It was someone else's idea which he executed brilliantly. You cannot make factual errors and blame for me being dogmatic while I point it out. I even included his wikipedia page ffs.

If you are working at Tesla in California, you would lose 50% to taxes and and another 20% in rent, food & basic amenities. So the difference is not that much as you think. And inflation is only getting worse in US so be prepared to deal with it. Else Musk would simply move his production to China like you do in a free and fair open market.

Tesla was not Musks brain child. He just came in between and took control of the company. It was Martin Eberhard's vision & innovation. It's Musk who threw him under the bus by playing corporate politics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Eberhard

That's too simplistic. CCP went enormous lengths to own the entire supply chain of EVs. Every single screw of production is owned by China. US couldn't even dream of it since individuals are supposed to compete for everything like in crony capitalism. Eventually loses to China in the long term. There is a lot more to it in how they balance competition. And also little money can afford you a good life in China. This is also because of state intervention. Take the cost of housing for example. While upper class liberals manipulate the "free markets" to inflate the prices. China is building a surplus of housing unites for their people thay houses are empty. In US you would lose your salary to some upper class white woman who is renting you her house. So high cost of living is a result of crony Capitalism. China doesn't have that problem.

Leftism doesn't need to undo the capitalist structure as a whole. Capitalism can run just as Musk runs his company. But the disproportionate rewards he gets from his company has to be redistributed for common good. Closer to the chinese model. China is already better in making cheap high quality EVs than all companies in US including Tesla. This is only possible by an ambitious state intervention. Not just ambitious individuals. These people are genetic freaks. They will keep working their ass off anyway. They are not running behind money. They can get rewarded a little less and things would just be fine.

Don't insult me by Pigeon holing my takes into the trash progressive ideology. Atleast pigeon hole me correctly. As a Russian propagandist. 😀 Progressives only admit explicit colonial exploitation. British in India, Israel in Palestine etc. Neo colonial exploitation flies over their heads. It's the conservative people who speak against western intervention in any meaningful way. Look how Trump deals with North Korea, Russia etc. These needless sanctions imposed on these countries only suffocate the average folks. Not their overlords. But it's the progressives who wanted to punish Russia, NK with sanctions. Not the republicans or conservatives.

These two are freaking demons. Bibi should be an angel compared to them

The point is she will not learn from her mistakes. The institutions in this country is going through a collective brain rot. If you don't take aggressive action now to correct it, it will lead to people losing faith in institutions. Just look at the SS chicks scrambling to hold a gun lol. This is not a minor mistake. This is a collosal mistake.

Putin robbing the country is better than Americans robbing your country. You have to understand that modern capitalism is designed to siphon wealth to United States and their allies, while you get pennies for cheap labour. Atleast with Putin, the money stays in Russia. Why do you think they wanted to expand NATO into Ukraine? Hint: BlackRock already owns land in Ukraine.

A lot of things happened for 5000000 years. If that is significant to the issue of interest, feel free to talk about it. Or address it when it is being talked about. Not only you don't bring up any larger context, but dismiss and deny when it is being bought about. None of this changes that fact that UKRAINE IS ASTRONOMICALLY WORSE OFF AFTER WESTERN INTERVENTION THAN BEFORE IT. Whatever little pesky corruption issue they had would have disappeared over time, had the west not poked it's nose into it. Now you don't even need added context to see that.

🥵 Hot If she has the slightest bit of honour left in her, she should resign. She will be more respected that way.

😭

They lost a war against America. And as a result they got into a terrible condition. What else were they supposed to feel? Their hate for America is totally valid. In their mind America is responsible for their suffering. And they might not be that wrong. The dissolution of the USSR was one of the greatest catastrophes in the 20th century.

Ukraine, then USSR was never free of western involvement. They were literally at war with each other. USSR was always under sanctions by the US during the cold war that Leo had to take a shit in a hole in the ground. That is because the US overthrew every single one of allies of the USSR by bombing, invading and sanctioning them. So obviously they were under severe economic strain. If the USSR could trade freely with the rest of the world, then Leo could have bought a toilet. One strength of the US is that it is good at dominating other countries into subjugation and covert and overt violence. So the US won over the USSR by sheer force. Hence they were left in abject poverty. That is not because of internal corruption. It is because they lost a war. US defeated the USSR. Hence USSR were economically stifled into dissolution among other factors. Period. -------------------------------- The US again got involved in the internal matters of Ukraine by ousting their democratically elected leader in 2014. No matter how corrupt they were, Ukraine went downhill from there on. The point is that Leo does not take into account the larger context in which things happen and just blame people for being corrupt. Maybe explore why they are corrupt? Nah that is too complex. This is good enough to flex on this forum, but there will be someone who have more context than you. And that will be Truth. Not yours.

And how is it looking after western involvement? I hope there will be a Ukraine after the end of the year. West got it from bad to worse. From poverty to death. Which is why I say nothing good comes from western intervention. Ukraine left on it's own will modernize itself. But you know the deep state wouldn't allow it.

What countries are you talking about? If it is about India, then yes, our infrastructure has been mismanaged for a little over 300 years by the British rule. It will take some time to get back on track. Centuries of exploitation will not reversed in a few decades. That's not how it works. I know it's completely our fault, but you shouldn't interpret that out of context.

Biden didn't need to stop running for president. They just had to stop reminding him.

What spoon feeding are you talking about? I did most of the spoon feeding you and you didn't even take the effort to address it. Especially Ukraine and Afganistan situation while plainly denying in the case of Iran with no explanation of any sort. That not soon feeding bruh that a lazy ass response. I did most of the effort in digging up materials, historical examples and got only lazy responses from you that didn't add much to the conversation. I consider this conversation to be over. I might point out the devilry though. Most people are unaware of it.

Mutual interest is what you call business and trade, where either parties get paid fairly. We should do as much trade as possible. Guess what stands in the way. SANCTIONS. "let us steal your oil or get sanctioned" Mutual interest is not what the west wants. They want criminal domination, enacted with sanctions. Most foreign interventions, in reality, serve no one's interests in the long term. Look at how Iran has become the biggest pain in the ass for Is***l and US.

Denying is so important. Do you know what's the first thing that American officers did after their embassy was raided by Iranian youth? They panicked and shredded all the documents related to the coup of 1953. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publications/iran/irdoc.html The students then reassembled it back. Denying the US intervention means that they could twist this as a reaction against progressivism and secularism. The western puppet shah was indeed imposing rapid secularism in a contrived fashion. They were intentionally destroying the identity of a country so that they could exploit their natural resources. It's devilry of the highest sort. It's an engineering more than anything. See: Covert Regime Change operations. ----- Now imagine if CIA didn't declassify these documents for some reason. What if all the details of foreign intervention was kept a secret.(They didn't do it voluntarily anyway) You could argue that the Islamic resistance/fundamentalism was against progressive policies imposed by the dictatorial shah. That's what they expect you to do. ------ Coming back to Ukraine, you will have to wait another 60 years for the CIA to declassify the documents related to the coup of democratically elected leader of Ukraine in 2014. Till then there is plausible deniability of western involvement in the coup and the ousting of their democratically leader. Iran had a shit ton of oil. Ukraine has 10 Trillion worth of natural resources buried under it. They don't even hide their intentions at this point: Just like foreign intervention and subsequent sanctions turned Iran into a rump state, Ukraine is headed into the same path. Same playbook, different places and different times. Few see it through.

What are you even saying? Here is what you are saying: "Development is really complicated" "You guys are brainwashed" "Overthrowing democracy and foreign intervention has nothing to do with regression in development" "Progressivism in anywhere but the west is "unsustainable"......" Loool "western progressivism and eastern underdevelopment has nothing to do with stealing Trillions from the global South on a yearly basis." Lolololol. Try making an actual case for what you saying with historical examples instead of making haphazard statements that could be interpreted ambiguously. I am not saying you are wrong, but you are not making a good case for it. Look at how I made my case. I drew a strict timeline of how social order was disrupted resulting in regression of development, by foreign intervention with many examples. I don't think this point should be a point of contention. Foreign intervention is for advancing foreign interests. Not local interests. Understanding that point alone is enough. I have given n number of examples in this thread. Geography and other factors being a bottleneck to development is rare. Even that doesn't give you a reason to exploit them, though.

Using the Nukes is not a serious possibility I guess. Where are they going to even drop it? But hey never underestimate their stupidity.