Bobby_2021

I used to be an avid viewer of this channel. Later I had to unsubscribe as he was getting more ideological in his defences.

There is too much to talk about vaccines & c19 but this thread was not about it per say. I expected people to say something like "mandates happened & it was unfortunate." Which would be the correct stance. Instead what I got is unconsciously setting the precedent for government to violate bodily Autonomy. Thankfully here in India the supreme court is against forcing everyone to get vaccinated citing bodily Autonomy & individual integrity. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/covid-no-individual-can-be-forced-to-take-vaccination-supreme-court-1944356-2022-05-02

What if it doesn't have to be simultaneous? Can two minds exist non simultaneously? This kind of makes sense.

Why should I trust you? ??? @Michael Jackson I don't trust you either. ? Only I exist.

Sperm on its own cannot make a baby. It has to added value to make it to a fetus. This makes the fetus more valuable than the sperm.

I think you have taken it too personal. Better read my definitions I have already given. This is not a moral claim or value system claim. I don't intend to continue the discussion since I am making the same point I have already made. It is not my fault that lines do not exist in reality. I am not being vague. There is no boundary for being human. I am not being intangible with my claim. But I will elaborate a few points later for the clarity on the topic since this is a public form and many people other than the two of us read this.

This is what I mean by sufficient potential. I have clearly defined everything that can be defined. Sperms do not have sufficient potential, unless interfered with. Well I have never called anyone immoral on this forum. That is typical stage blue behaviour and it do not represent me. You putting words in my mouth and me having to defend claims I never even made is quite tiresome. Just show me where I called you immoral. I will delete my account right now if you do. I am merely saying that abortion accounts for murder. Everything else is the baggage you bring.

Awesome thread @Someone here I can confirm to you that I exist. I have complete sovereignty of my existence. You can trust me here. I am existing. This is for sure. I just want to ask you to confirm if you exist. Just to make sure that you do. If your answer is yes, then it implies the existence of two minds.

Bro, you know very well that strict lines/seperation/boundaries do not exist in this non dual reality. There is no point pestering me to provide something that do not exist. That's why we circumvent this problem using potentiality argument. This is how real world works. There are no exact line of boundaries between countries. What usually happens is a buffer zone. A zone that dosen't belong to either of the countries. The actual boundary between the two countries us supposed to lie somewhere in the buffer zone. The equivalent of the buffer zone in the case of the baby is the potential. Once the object surpasses a certain potential, which is clearly defined, the actual line that seperates human from non human lies in that potential. That's why Killing the potential amounts to Killing the human baby. Because somewhere in the potential range the actual line of seperation lies. You cannot pin point that particular line. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The line still exists within the potential range. Now the conversation must be centred on potential, not on the specific line. Now you are going to again ask me if killing sperm is murder, which I explained clearly that sperm doesn't have enough potential. It has a minimal potential, just like your flat-screen led television has also has potential to be a baby. Everything has potential. Potential can be measured in Reality and is tangible which is not the case with a strict lines. Taking the whole conversation to the lines is pointless.

Bro if you give the government the power to freeze bank accounts of people for protesting over bodily Autonomy, immorality has already happened and you have sat there laughing at them. Realise the precedent you are setting here. Tommorow they will enforce another shitty policy and you won't be able to cry #MyBodyMyChoice. Oh wait that is already happening. Just that you are on the other side this time. And your arguments on whether it is infectious or not won't fly here. You think this wasn't gonna happen? You shouldn't give the government power over it's own citizens. Individual must have the freedom to simply not take anything unwanted into their own bodies. Plain and simple.

I didn't say it isn't a human before it has heartbeat. If it has a heartbeat, it is a human. There is no denying that. That's exactly my point. All of those are distinct points in time. Also why are you ignoring the potential? There is potential for the embryo. So killing potential amounts to murder as well. I don't see how you can construct an argument around this. I don't require construction of lines for this, that's why potentiality argument is used.

Well fat people get sick more often and are more vulnerable to heart disease and diabetes and a whole other set of diseases. They are burdening the healthcare system. Covid-19 is deadlier for fat people. https://www.science.org/content/article/why-covid-19-more-deadly-people-obesity-even-if-theyre-young So are they going to mandate exercises? Nah. That won't make money for big pharma and that might make people actually healthy.

Potential is not arbitrary. It is clearly measured. I don't get where the confusion is. If the embryo is not manipulated with, and it becomes a full grown adult then it has sufficient potential. Else it has little potential, as in the case of an isolated sperm. I say little potential because everything in the universe has some potential. Potential is never zero for any substance. It is only a matter of adding potential to actualise it into a human. At the time of heartbeat. There is no denying that it is a human life if it is a human heart and it is also beating. But that isn't a licence to kill it before that, because it has potential to be a baby. Come on?..you are not having plant life inside the womb.

People don't care about killing the life around them, So why should it matter in the case of vaccines? Then why do you need two words to describe it. It is because it is different. By that logic there is no difference between Hitler and a baby. Don't use high level abstractions to justify things according to your convenience.

Apply the glorious liberty to vaccines issue as well. exactly this. People should wear masks and vaccinate if they have to protect themselves instead of infringing in the liberty of the unvaccinated. There is a reason why I decided to talk about the vaccine and abortions simultaneously, is to hammer this point home. I am also pro abortions by the way. I am just saying that amount to killing people based on how we classify murder. Abortions increase the collective karmic trauma in society but yall not ready for that conversation.

Isn't interpreting everything as relative falling into the same trap as pragmatism? "Nothing matter because everything is relative." So yeah do whatever you want. Nothing really matters and it if does it is always relative to something else. And that thing doesn't matter too. Nothing matters, just like the pragmatists. This is just intentionally blurring the lines only when you find it convenient.

The argument for potentiality is flexible and makes sense. And I have thought through it. Everything in this universe has some amount of potential. Even dinosaurs and Bananas have the potential to be human. Does it have sufficient potential is the question. I define potential as: Is something becomes human, if not interfered with, then it has potential. The interference process is merely manipulation by adding or subtracting potential. In this context subtracting potential too much amounts to murder. "Then is masturbation considered murder? Because you are killing the sperms? " No. Because the sperm alone has no potential to become human. The sperm has to added more potential by having sex, and impregnating the egg for it to be considered to have potential. The act of sex is adding potential. The sperm does not have enough potential on it's own. So jacking off doesn't add up to murder, since it didn't have enough potential in the first place. Sperm has minuscule potential but so as Stars and planets and trees and virtually every form of carbon. But not sufficient potential. Crucial Distinction. If is has sufficient potential, then it must grow up to become a human, with no external interference or manipulation. If it does, then it is that act of interference that has potential, not the sperm itself. The act of sex (unprotected obviously) +sperm+ few other factors = Sufficient potential Sperm alone has no potential for actualizing into a human, s too little potential to become human, therefore you can jack off without having it be a murder. @Leo Gura I remember you bringing up this point in one video ( I can't remember which one) justifying why abortion cannot be considered murder on the basis of potentiality argument. If it is, then jerking off must also be considered murder. What do you think about this? Really? Are you going to argue that it is not a human? If it is a murder, then it is a human murder. You are not murdering a chicken here. Anyways that was the point of my initial post. Women must be allowed to murder potential babies. I am pro abortion. Just getting the Truth. You can do whatever you want. Do not bend the Truth. It is not merely a life. It is human life and it is a human heart. We do not have laws that punish murdering chicken. But we do have laws against murder of humans, and murder is a crime that correlates with low consciousness, especially if it could have been avoided with choice. It is not complicated, you are just trying to make it complicated and confusing by blurring the lines. But the lines are clear on this one. Yes, Killing anything that has a heart accounts for murder. if it is a human heart, it is a human murder. Go ahead and have laws if you may wish. That's what the conservatives are going to do anyway.

For Being loved: 1) I was highly fond of magnets and science. My friends at school used to bring magnets to class and play with them. I couldn't play as much as I wanted to so that pissed me off. I wanted more magnets. I needed to make more magnets and show it off to my friends. My friends were not nerds neither I had internet or anyone else to ask "how to make magnets?". I was desperate. And I didn't have a single clue as to how. So I began searching through and old stack of books to search for any information on magnets. I could not find any information. I still pushed ahead with no end in sight. I had to take the books, which were mostly on science and search through them. It was a roller coaster of emotions. Not only do I need information, I also want to know how to make them. My search continued with the only thing fueling my search was my love for magnets and science.I was looking for such a specific thing in mind so there was not much hope that I will actually find it. And then finally I got one textbook which had a section on electro-magnetism. Suddenly my hopes went high, but not too high. I closely studied every page and I turned them, and alas I found it. Finding it was nothing, now the hard part on actually making it. It was basically to take a nail, tie it with copper wire and connect either end of the wire to the battery, and the nail will behave like a magnet due to electro-magnetism. And then, I accidentally touched the wire and guess what? The wire became burning hot. The love and burst of emotions I have experienced at the time is insanely overwhelming. I finally got the felling that I am going somewhere with this. I have made progress on my own from scratch starting from basically nothing. I felt like a scientist myself. Feeling the heat from the wire also gave me the feeling that I found something else on my way to making magnets. It was like an unexpected bonus. I did not know about anything since there was no google to search things on. Every single step in the journey I had to think, take risk despite having practically no hope and noone else to help me around, and I unraveled mysteries of the universe. It was a simple experience in retrospect, but it was huge experiencing the milestones in real time. 2) I feel great sense of love when I am in a team and I single-handedly make the team win by my own efforts. I feel like I haven't contributed enough if I don't. There has been few occasions where I single-handedly answered multiple questions to gather all the points and win the game for my team. Also I have the same feeling of love when I score all the points in games and matches to crush others. Now this looks more like some insecurity but back then I felt like I am part of something greater. For not being loved: 1) This the earliest and clearest memory that I have. There was a family function happening at my house and I was still a baby. The moment I woke up my mother was holding me. I felt peace and loved. I was holding my little hands on her shoulder and telling to myself that this is my mother. I love my mother. I love my mother so much. She was holding me in a way such that my chest was on her chest and I was hugging on to her neck. I couldn't see her face. I was enjoying the moment and then out of nowhere my actual mother appears. I felt so betrayed that I cried out loud. Actually it was my cousin sister was holding me. I was thinking it was my mother the whole time. I feel betrayed by both my mother and my cousin. I want to take revenge on her. I was so internally disturbed by this. For this reason, I would never make babies cry no matter what when they are with me. I don't like adults that make babies cry for fun. The baby might be feeling something else.

People cannot make subtle distinctions, neither do they closely study policy proposals. If they did either of that then they would have already been a progressive for the betterment of society. Plus, the progressives tend to be judged more harshly in my opinion. With that said, most progressives in America are already enjoying or benefiting from the status quo. They are conservatives in disguise and has more money and wealth that what they show to the public on paper. They serve the interests of the wall street.. (which is still better than actual conservatives). They are also socialists. I think we need to educate people on both sides of the isle.

@puporing I am personally in support of abortions. I wanted to dig in to see whether it constitutes for murder based on how we classify murder based on existing laws. This is purely a philosophical argument.

What do you say to someone that resists mandates citing #MyBodyMyChoice. To be clear they are not Anti vaxxers. Just Anti-MANDATES. ie people who believe in their own bodily Autonomy. That they have the right to decide what goes inside their own body. Also society also had slavery for millions of years. That doesn't justify having it anymore.

Doesn't it account for murder though? Plus even if it, I think women should be able to do it. I personally do believe that. But still it does seem to be murder.

I think instead of having a pinpoint line, pro life are looking at *potential*. If something becomes a baby, when not interfered with, then it holds the potential to be human. Once it acquires potential, then it is only a matter of time it becomes an autonomous human, thereby entitled to all rights that comes along with it. So harming the potential amounts to murder. Well there is no denying that anything that has a heartbeat doesn't hold life on it's own. It's foolish to equate something that has a heartbeat as not being human. Once you have a heartbeat it is only a matter of *location* and some time till you are a completely autonomous human entitled to all rights. Clearly if you see something that has a heartbeat, you clearly know it's life. Life stops when your heartbeat stops. We can be clear that *location* of an entity dosen't imply whether it has life or not. So if it has heartbeat, it has life. Hence harming that life, amounts to murder [If you go too far with "where to draw line?", then you won't even be able to definite what a human is, which will deem the whole conversation as frivolous, since muder doesn't really exist as well.] That's solves the "where you draw the line?" Pretty much. The argument that can still stand is Bodily autonomy. That women should be able to whatever they want with their body. Well abortion can also harm the humans around you. So there is one similarity. Well, you have to understand that different people have different ideas of "harm to society". Infringing on their bodily Autonomy is literally harm to society from the pov of people that dosen't want to get vaccinated. But according to what you said, it is ok for the government to pass laws that violate bodily Autonomy, if it harms life around us. It clearly does in the case of abortion. To elaborate the case of vaccines, those people at the risk of flooding the hospitals could have been advised to self isolate, since going out is going to spread the disease anyway. Despite that the government choose to violate bodily Autonomy, which is still justified according to you. I can't help but think one of the statement has to be wrong. Both are contradicting each other. Either Bodily autonomy must prevail or it must not.

Pro vaccine means I believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine and have took it myself but I don't require others to take it. Pro abortion means women must have the right to abortion if they need it

Read somewhere that majority of the abortions are availed by minority women. This will only increase the number of non white people,