RMQualtrough

Do you see that it doesn't actually achieve anything at all on a cosmic scale? Did I experience nothingness? I knew nothingness for sure. I knew myself to be nothingness through an experience I was having. I could not know myself to be nothingness if I was under general anaesthesia. Maybe I would somewhere else in the world simultaneously but you know what I mean. I am still right now on death row and doing all sorts of evil shit, I'm still Sam Harris arguing for materialism etc. So whatever viewpoint was gained or state of consciousness tapped into, it is STILL a relative one. Entering the state of consciousness which is literally nondual, meaning nothing even APPEARS to take form at all, causes cessation, and thus can't be experienced. Any sort of awakening directly impacts your relative life only. As long as experience is happening, and it eternally is and will, you are experiencing relativity in some way.

It's not a word game. The experience is an experience. Awakening is an experience. Exactly like any other... Do you know what happens when you awaken? You simultaneously don't and never do (I say you because many dislike the term "others"). You're walking around apparently enlightened while at the same time you're shooting up a convenience store and not believing in God at all. Because ALL of these things including understanding of nonduality, are appearances of form, in the appearance of duality because without formless appearing as form there's cessation. BipolarGrowth is right, but I would say his cessation non-experiences are still not literally collapsing duality, only relatively, because look here we are. Evidently what happens is it is relatively collapsed and relative collapse = the person ceases to exist. But here we see the appearances of things are continuing. So they haven't actually achieved anything. The ride never ends. Waking up is relative. It seems clear what is going on... An enlightened form is still a form that's there, it literally means NOTHING whether you are walking around understanding oneness. You are just a form realizing oneness and formlessness. It's still appearing. Appearance of duality is eternal. Even thoughts like "that's lonely" or "that's boring" are form and thus the formless as itself alone simply does not care except via experience...

Both nothingness and somethingness are what you are, literally speaking. And the totality is IMO not you. All elements of you are reducible to the singularity. But the singularity is, vice versa, not reducible to any sort of you. You aren't imagining the world or laws of physics etc. These are things beyond any "you", they're not something you're controlling or willing into being. The totality can't be called you I don't think, for these types of reasons. Consciousness = nothingness. Literally. It's literally nothingness in substance. It's a silly word really, because no normal person will see "consciousness" and think it's anything but something...

You can't actually prove this to yourself at all, like the title question it's unproveable. I wonder if this is why time seems to pass faster as we get older. Maybe we realize more and more that we've never actually left this moment, and the moments passed through you.

I very much prefer interpretations which acknowledge the separation as much as the oneness. For me appearing to appear = appearing. An illusion = a real illusion. My most prominent understanding, I felt, came from the split instead of becoming the visuals etc. A little clown man in my mind pointed at me in the foreground, and that did it... The "don't look at me here, look at you back there", then I found I was literal complete nothingness.

I don't understand this interpretation. There is nothing, the subject, and nothing-appearing-to-be-NOT-nothing, the object. If nothingness never appeared to be not-nothing (objects) there'd not be any experience at all full stop. If there was only appearing somethings and NOT sheer nothing coinciding with it, there'd be no experience at all. Because objects never know objects. The subject exists and it is pure nothingness. Objects exist and their actual "substance" is pure nothingness but an object itself is not pure nothingness because it's pretending to be not-nothing. Reality is only actual due to subject and object divide, and nobody has ever experienced the literal singularity where things stop appearing as things and everything is literally nothing with no facades period. Seeing things as nothingness is just a reinterpretation of the actuality of the appearance of duality which is still right there irrespective of interpretation.

Try proving to yourself that you experienced anything at all before this precise moment. Prove to yourself you didn't just pop into existence right now and all your memories are false. Prove to yourself you won't vanish in a nanosecond from now. Experience can NEVER end. Duality can NEVER end. If you die physically, experience MUST continue and if you are dead where do you suppose it continues? In Solipsism, there is also a problem in the fact that you are not consciously in control of the landscape around you and can't predict dialogue from others before they say it out loud. You call that your subconscious, the same thing happens when you dream. What is the difference between subconscious things you don't control and other people having independence? You will find you can't will me into posting specific things so what is?

If an illusion exists, it is part of reality period. Duality is in fact the most important element of reality because without it there'd BE no reality, just nothing at all forever and ever. Never do you awake from anything and suddenly magically that's real and nothing else was. If something happens it's reality. If it wasn't part of reality it could never have happened. You could hallucinate SANTA CLAUS and the fact you saw Santa is real and indisputable.

It should in totality just be called infinity I think. And the building blocks called literal nothingness. Both subject and object are made of nothing. And both together is just actual complete infinity. The term God is very humanizing.

I don't believe in these things for curing mental illness honestly. I personally found an afterglow which convinced me I no longer needed meds. Slowly after months I became very anxious/depressed again and went back on meds, and am again now mentally well.

@Breakingthewall Legit. You can't grasp reality by rejecting elements of it.

Evolution. Creatures without fared worse than those with.

No but you can observe them. I myself experience it right now. All experience is something appearing to nothing. Infinity alone, could not be experienced. Imagine a dream, if you dream of a beach, do you see that the very moment you see any part of the beach you're located somewhere inside ofthat beach scene? You couldn't experience the beach dream if you didn't appear to be somewhere in it. Which is dual. That is right now.

@Fearless_Bum You don't need language. The very second a baby is born it already experiences duality and cries when slapped. People are either finding they are nothing then ignoring that nothing, and concluding there's only something without a nothing playing the role of observer. Or finding the unification of nothing and something and saying it's beyond any word or thought, ignoring the fact of nothing and something entirely. Always 100% of the time, it is due to talking cross purposes regarding absolute and relative. Relative is part of absolute. Ignoring it will not make it go away. The thread question could not even be asked otherwise. How could one of us be "awake" yet not others? "Being awake" is an experience still happening inside duality which is why the question even exists... An awake person is dead, which can't be experienced... Only experience can be experienced, and that is duality. Any time you remove something from nothing, or vice versa, or try to expand to experience infinity, there is no experience. It is a whiteout or blackout or death. And experience AKA duality persists. It never ends. Duality is literally part of reality and the only part which is ever experienced.

Doesn't matter, duality is experienced by creatures without language. Humans aren't the only living things seeing duality. Any experience is duality. A creature eats food, it doesn't eat itself, there's cognition of self and other. This applies to all living things even plants where their "cognition" is alien to us. Nothing in absence of something is never experienced. It'd just be total nothingness. Something does not exist in absence of nothing, because things are made of perception. Remove nothing (named consciousness) and there's no awareness, hence no perception and again just nothingness alone which can't be experienced. All of this is happening inside the appearance of duality. Toad trips are happening inside of duality still. It's just so far from this that it seems to not be. A whiteout would be nonduality. But it's not because you can whiteout and duality continues: See me here. Infinity can't be experienced in the actual literal sense. Only finitude can be experienced. You can easily recognize that the color red you see is fundamentally infinity, but its appearing as something finite which is red and not blue. Your interpretation of it changes so red = blue, up = down, but that's cognition. It is still appearing as something finite.

@Galyna I don't think language is the cause of duality, nonverbal animals also experience it. And trees even, they will specifically grow towards sunlight, as sunlight is recognized as separate from itself the organism, whether a conscious recognition or not.

I interpreted the same experience very differently indeed. I think you are saying because the subject is nothing, it doesn't exist? I interpreted it as an existent nothing. It's there but its substance is literally nothing. Literally. But it's there. The same literal nothingness knowing all somethings through us, I don't think negates the fact of eternally apparent segregation. I can't describe your bedroom even if you are in it right now, and vice versa... Duality will always appear to exist.

I don't think such a thing can be experienced tbh. Dualism will always appear to exist. Awakening is an experience happening in apparent duality... So any state you experience is still an experience and also subject to change.

The characters and the character's desires are part OF it. It is both the terrified gassed jews AND the Nazis who desired to kill them. It isn't letting you get tortured it is itself being tortured. We are just empty puppets. There is no reason. It's a natural process/thing. In itself it isn't sentient, thoughts appear to it. The two are bound together and there's no word for that since that binding is neither nothing nor something...

Certainty. Even in lucid dreams there is a slight anxiety when you get killed in it. You're pretty sure you're going to wake up in bed but you're not 100% convinced. I'm also curious about some elements like evolution. What is the world that was dreamed up that creatures adapted to? Food for example, perhaps it has no physical literal reality, but it had some form of reality which caused animals to evolve in certain ways.

Yes of course all experience is in apparent duality. An experience of literal nonduality without that appearance is completely impossible. Experience needs experienced and experiencer. The thinker is what you refer to as "I", which is formless nothing. The thought is form which is fundamentally nothing so fundamentally is the subject. The pairing of this duality as a singular unit is total infinity.

I hate the term consciousness as it's a poisoned word. The subject is nothing, things are fundamentally nothing so they have to be made of the subject. The combination of the two is neither ultimately subject or ultimately object, and there is no word whatsoever. "It" may be literal infinity which would explain why it is impossible to grasp, since it encompasses everything, and a total singularity can't ever be found because subject and object are both then enveloped by it. You get what I mean. Because obv to observe something that happens within a dual setup of observed and observer. Consciousness is a poisoned word because people don't understand what it is and believe they possess it and all sorts of weird ideas.

I murder that little prick. The body through which dislike of the mosquito is felt is more powerful than the body that wants to feed. So it gets slaughtered like a sucka.

See if you prefer: You don't exist. Only I exist. True no matter which mouth it comes out of. The true name of all of us is "I" or "me". That is the real and only name we have. Whenever the word "you" is uttered, it's something as imaginary as a thought or tree or table.