kinesin

@Nahm That goes without saying. When I speak of 'Leo' I'm not referring to his core being (which doesn't even exist) but to his presentation and the ways in which he interacts with the world. A person is defined in part by their interactions and behaviours, and that's the dimension in which Leo could benefit from further development of some compassion. He believes that he is compassionate and accepting of opposing views, sure, but there exists a perception that he's actually entrenched in his own thoughts and too quick to outright reject opposing views, and also too blunt/harsh in his manner when doing so. This is the sense in which his critics argue that he behaves like an authoritarian king of his own domain (aka, a cult leader in the most negative sense), and if he worked on those aspects of himself, he wouldn't attract such criticisms. Likewise, if he worked on this issue and stopped acting so sure of himself, he'd no longer project such a strong image of being a wise guru who knows the absolute truth of reality - because this image is what leads so many vulnerable and impressionable people to adopting his teachings so uncritically. Leo may read this and believe that I'm saying this out of hate or desire to take him down, but it's actually borne from a desire to see him fully actualize himself. Isn't the ultimate goal of personal development to shape oneself into an entity who floats effortlessly through reality while experiencing as much love and bringing as much positivity into being as possible, at all times? If a person's actions, speech or manner lead to discordance and chaos, isn't that a warning sign from the universe that we need to adapt ourselves? I want Leo's teachings, his manner of delivery, this community etc to be in genuine concordance with what is true, good and pure. If that could be achieved, the criticisms wouldn't even arise within the minds of the critics, and such chaotic outcomes wouldn't occur.

There are no ends, only processes. In my view some elements of Leo's clumsy delivery of these teachings has opened the door to chaos, of which SoonHei's death is one manifestation and these ongoing discussions are more manifesations. I think really the only thing that'll free the community from this issue is if Leo goes through a series of experiences which shape him into a more open, empathetic and considerate person who is less of a target for being accused of acting like a cult leader, and less susceptible to being interpreted in dangerous ways.

There was no 'headlines', the screenshot I posted was simply a screenshot which was shared in the thread announcing SoonHei's death. If you want to show another side of the story by sharing the PM you sent to Leo for example or giving more information about how the comments looked to you when you first recieved and responded to them, nobody would stop you from doing it. I should clarify, I'm not trying to put any undue responsibility on you. Infact I almost feel pulled into such a polar position as if by the magnetic effect of the position you yourself are expressing. You defend, so I observe myself stepping forward to poke. There's nothing personal about it, it's a systematic interaction.

Of course, hindsight is 20-20, but I would say this is far from 'jumbled' and infact shows clearly that he was entertaining dangerous concepts. Of course at that point, there was no protocol for dealing with users who express such leanings so it can be forgiven that it wasn't dealt with appropriately. I've seen you make reference to these 'edited comments' a few times and I wonder, do you have any evidence to suggest that any meaningful edits were actually made to these comments, and not simply cleaning up spelling errors and such? The insinuation I get from your claim is that any reference to contemplating suicide was added in much later, so you couldn't have been expected to notice any warning signs. It seems to me however that the entirety of this comment relates to the question of "if I die, will I respawn?" which is something Leo has clumsily claimed to be true before.

@Blackhawk You'd be better off rethinking it yourself, because that's the most accurate and useful interpretation of truth there is.

Try to look beyond this individual poster and their criticisms, and consider them as a single point of a larger pattern manifesting. There are a lot of people with criticisms of Leo around these days - infact the majority of the time his name is brought up anywhere outside of this forum or his youtube comments, these criticisms are discussed. Google his name and on the very first page you'll find posts arguing that he's a scammer, that this is a cult etc. In my estimation, all of this criticism is due to the fact that Leo has been sloppy and unthinking with his 'teachings'. If he were more careful not to lead people toward mental breaks, if he was more aware of his own ego, these issues wouldn't have arisen. In my view 'truth' means that which is actually in real accordance with what is good and pure, with what actually works and leads to positive outcomes. Leo's approach is producing chaotic ripples of criticism and negative outcomes precisely because his position isn't based in truth. Perhaps some elements of the nondual philosophy are true... but his personal manner of behaviour, his lack of care or consideration etc are not truthful at all. I agree with you, Leo won't change, he's simply too stubborn and ego-entrenched. These criticisms aren't going away though, so I foresee this community going down the path of many 'cults' where they have to become progressively more insular and closed-off to outside comments, and eventually the only people allowed in are the dedicated true-believers.

Leo makes a lot more sense when you start thinking that he's actually a manifestation of the actual, literal devil and that he's using evil manipulative tricks to get inside your mind and make you stray from actual truth, by convincing you that his poison is the cure. You can't convince or expect the devil to atone for his sins, because he's the master of his own reality and nothing you say can have any effect on him. The devil doesn't feel guilty or sorry about those who were ruined by him, the devil only mocks them further by blaming them for their own suffering.

@iboughtleosbooklist Your imaginary mother isn't worried by the things you're actually saying, but rather the manic energy you project while trying to explain it to her. Once you reach full understanding, the desire to explain things and enlighten others completely drops away because there's nothing left to fix. In 99.999% of cases where a person explores spiritual truths only to end up scaring their family, it's because the person's insight isn't as fully developed as they think it is. You don't need to explain to your mother that she's a dream character - who are you really trying to convince, anyway? And why? Infact, your imaginary mother's initial answers of noncommital and accepting "That's an interesting perspective dear..." etc is more indicative of enlightenment than the act of desperately trying to explain concepts to another person, as if their present way of thinking isn't already perfect as it is.

SoonHei DMed a moderator outlining what he planned to do and also spent hours speaking to his best friend about mahasamadhi, nonduality and how existence is a dream earlier on the day he killed himself. Before he jumped, he texted that friend saying "I leave you my dream. You already know, meet you in the beyond". It isn't an assumption that SoonHei killed himself as a direct result of these teachings, that's just the fact of what happened.

I was with you up until you made this comment. I've been meditating for around 15 years now though I'm not a fan of Leo's teachings - there's more than enough room in the world for a whole variety of different perspectives and opinions. That said, you went beyond your initial criticisms with this comment, and I also sense a bit of fear in you. I sense dissatisfaction and unhappiness, and those emotions are causing you to lash out in ways that are ultimately unproductive.

@Wilhelm44 Yes, it happens automatically. This is something you realize quite clearly upon developing a consistent level of mindfulness - no matter what you do or what you think, your awareness is always sitting back and watching it all play out. Your own actions, behaviours, decisions etc become just another process which requires no effort - for example while writing this comment I watched myself think about the question, I watch my fingers type it out, I watch myself deliberate over the wording, I watch myself pause for a moment as my hand reaches over to scratch my shoulder. A person who thinks this isn't the case and that they're truly in control of every thought and action simply hasn't developed a continuous state of awareness.

@Alfonsoo It's sensory overload, which forces a state of concentration because while you're overwhelmed with the sounds, there isn't any 'room' left for your brain to do its usual patterns of thought.

@spinderella It may be the case that you just don't know what you're supposed to be looking for. For me, the physical feeling of love is not too different from the sensation of being about to cry. There's a welling, opening sensation in my upper chest/lower throat and a sense of some kind of energy being transmitted.

@SQAAD The views of this community flow directly from Leo's beliefs, which are themselves typical of a more recent branch of extreme nondualism. I agree with you personally - I believe that although everything is ultimately one and that on the objective level everything is without separation or form, that the subjective reality we experience is as real as 'real' ever was, and that we shoudn't seek to transcend the dream or be ashamed of ourselves for treating it as if it were real. That said, the views of this community don't agree with that - from their nondual perspective we simply don't get it. I bought a frisbee today. A few hours later, I shaved my own mother's head because she's dying from cancer. I believe there's a real (as real as real can be) difference in nature between those two events, subjective though it may be, and that anyone who pretends not to be able to see that difference is deeply lost in delusion.

"There is no doubt whatsoever (ok, maybe a little) that illusion is the closest thing to reality we have." - Grand Enlightened Master Kinesin I'm curious Leo, when you're asleep and dreaming, do you spend your dream time trying to convince the dream characters that they aren't real, or are you generally too busy flying around on a unicorn?

I think Mason may have been poking a little fun at you, and the fact that your criticism of Adeptus appears to treat him as a real thing.

What difference does it make if reality is 'real' or 'illusion' anyway? I've lost all interest in questioning the nature of reality. It just is what it is, and all the various views and insights into its nature are just more parts of it.

@cle103 I would imagine it to be perfectly safe, however if you have concerns about safety than that won't contribute to a positive 'set' for your trip. Psychologically speaking, if you have any concerns on your mind they may be amplified by the LSD, and your mind may interpret various symptoms of body load as being something to do with spike proteins, which could cause anxiety. Imo it's better to just wait until these worries fade away before tripping.

I had severe treatment-resistant depression from age 13 to around 29. A person at age 26 is still not too far from being a teenager, from the perspective of the further development which occurs in a person's 30s. I believe that if she would have held on a few more years, she could have gotten through it.

@ItsNick Doctor 1: “Hmm, the patient doesn’t respond to any of our medications and not even ECT seemed to help” Doctor 2: “Shall we prescribe guided meditations? Perhaps a therapeutic session at the psychedelic clinic with MDMA or psilocybin? What about introducing the patient to spirituality?” Doctor 1: “No, that won’t be necessary. Book them in to be killed.”

I don’t know how you can say that it isn’t shocking the brain, when it literally involves directing 70-120 volts through the skull in an imprecise manner. ECT has been known to cause permanent cognitive impairment and amnesia. One study showed that upto 50% of people given ECT reported lasting changes to their memory. I empathise with the fact that as a medical practitioner you have a moral imperative to believe that the treatments condoned by your industry are beneficial to patients, but I don’t believe ECT will be viewed very highly in the future, to say the least. Remember, back when lobotomies were still practiced the general medical advice was that they were safe and effective. I understand that ECT is reserved as a last resort in many cases, but the fact that such a last resort is practiced while other treatments such as ketamine and psychedelic therapy go unused strikes me as absurd and indicative of major limitations in the scope of acceptable medical interventions.

False. Infact many people go through a suicidal period in their lives which they eventually emerge from, and accounts from survivors of failed suicide attempts almost unanimously report experiencing a moment of intense regret the moment they realize they've actually done it. If you're Dutch, you won't be able to see this rationally, the way people in other countries see it. People defend the evils of their own cultures because they have been inculcated to do so.

@Leo Gura It's probably the Netherlands, as I believe they're the only country in the world which practices psychiatric euthenasia. In NL children as young as 12 can be euthanized if their parents consent, and children over 16 can be euthanized without their parents having a say. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2491354 If any country today still carries the tradition of spiritually bereft scientific materialism from the nazis, it's the Netherlands.

@Scholar Yeah, I would have said something more like this in my previous comment but if I go against Leo's teachings one more time in the forum, he said he'd ban me. So I figured the meta here now is 'try to help new users to better understand and believe in Leo's teachings'.

@iboughtleosbooklist You won't live as Leo. 'Leo' is a construct, and within the subjective experience of that construct there exists a conscious awareness. The conscious awareness has no name, no face, no personality or opinions, it's simply pure awareness. Your character, your 'self', your name, personality etc is a construct too, and within it there is also a conscious awareness. The idea is, that conscious awareness is the *same* conscious awareness in each of us. There isn't one in you, one in me, one in Leo etc, it's just one awareness.