Kksd74628

@Devin I agree, enjoying life requires that you accept present moment as it is and feel the connection to the world "around you". It's not that you need to work, but you could if you want its benefits that it offers. You could do experiment and ask couple homeless people on the streets that if they could start working somewhere and have house would the do it. Ask for example 10 or 15 people to guarantee broader perspective and it can prove me wrong or right, but at least it gives perspective to the thing from the right people.

@Devin You're lost confucing absolute truth with relative domain. Yeah there maybe isn't bad or good life from certain perspective, because what the terms good or bad even mean. Still I guess you agree that you want your life to be extremely enjoyable and if not why would you ask questions about masters and where to find them. Yeah I absolutely believe that if you give enough time and needed conditions anyone could change their life for good. The problem in being stuck in bad life situation is not that they aren't trying, but that they need little help from someone to get right back to track.

@Devin First you said that focusing to basic stuff in life is a distraction. Then I explained to you that if you don't focus to basic stuff you're going to end up in a situation in life that you don't like. Basicly I'm trying to show the importance of making great decisions and not fully expecting meditation to fill your stomach and make you healthy with good relationships which aren't abusing you or doing any more harm to you. Then you agreed that the life on the streets isn't better. Could we say that taking care of your life is not a distraction from the perspective of having good life and you can't meditate yourself out of all situations without taking actions?

@Devin You are unbeliavable in your skill not to answer to thing what the other one said. Yeah, you don't need to tell them anything and most likely their life won't change and they are stuck being poor, angry to the society and sad with all possible illnesses. Again this conversation wasn't about should you do something or not, but is mastering basic stuff distraction as you phrased it or not. To me it is really weird that you don't see the obvious here. Again if you think that being poor in the streets is better life than not being then why wouldn't you join in to the parties.

@Devin You are just circling around the topic. I said that if you want to evolve to deep spiritual topics it'd be beneficial to have basics mastered. As you saw from my example that without good founding people aren't ready to do deep spiritual work, because they are too much in denial and they think about their suffering. Most likely they wouldn't even understand the reason to meditate, because they would laugh at you and ask "will I get something to eat from doing so". If you'd say you get something even better they'd just continue laughing even more.

@Carl-Richard I quoted Devin from another thread and he is simply denying those things and thinks that you can just go directly to god-realization. That made me see that many people think that spirituality is just going to cave, dropping attachments and doing nothing with their lifes. It wasn't merely about meditation, but about mastering basic stuff in life, because without those everything could fall apart. Also if something makes you "enlightened" or not is very personal thing and only you could know answer for that for yourself. -joNi-

@Devin Never said grinding at normal work makes you most happy, but it just is good stepping stone for homeless and I guess that he doesn't have laptop lying around with him so he could start trading some bitcoins. I understand that the skips are useful, but in that particular case I'd start from the basics and when they are in good shape I could start going more to spiritual stuff with him. Also you should see that, because he has been in very bad environment he probably isn't ready to drop some core beliefs and would call your teachings bullshit.

@Leo Gura That's actually very good that you pointed this out here, because most people here on the forum have picture that you somehow deny the power of meditation and so on. As I commented to you on another thread, even if something doesn't directly make you experience god-realization it can still have its use for other things and even to god-realization indirectly. That's also one video idea for these folks; Importance of mastering basic stuff. That could cover the trap of only trying to do highest spiritual things and expecting it to be enough. -joNi-

@Devin Fear is not your only or even the best motivator, contemplate towards that and you can see what I could respond to your last message. I know one guy who only smokes and drinks and I wouldn't say that he is any closer to god than being healthy. He just stares into nothingness, propably not thinking too much. That being said I wouldn't suggest being homeless as a spiritual practice, but maybe for a couple of days and even that wouldn't the real thing which is without your knowledge, spiritual skills and way of looking things. Can't you really see how lucky you are that you had even your level of parenting, school, friends, shelter, food etc. You are deeply denying the suffering and life poor people have. Life is not as good and easy for all that it was for you, keep that in your mind. It's not that they chose their life to be that way, but it was pretty much what was given. Most of them are so unhappy and powerless that changing anything won't come to their mind even. Of course they can change their life with a help, but doing it alone can be hard if you've been homeless for decades.

@Devin Being poor and not having home where to live is not a problem that you're too disconneced from god. It can be phrased that is problem that society is too disconneced from it, but that's an another discussion. That you don't have home cannot be "cured" only by more god, but you really need to take practical steps towards better future. Good luck at least making that poor guy meditate when it's raining outside and (s)he doesn't have anything to eat and (s)he is sleeping top of cardboard.

@Devin You can do it both ways; fix your life until you've time just to relax and do spiritual stuff or skip everything and do spiritual stuff and fix your life after that. The thing is that, you can't assume that everything fixes itself after some shift in experience. It helps a lot, but it is like winning in lottery, yeah it helps to have financiality so well under control that you can use it to change your whole life, but the "work" still must be done. Also sometimes it's hard to meditate if your life is total chaos and taking psychedelics when your life is full of traumas is a recipe for bad trip.

@Devin With the same logic given you don't even need zen and clinging not to cling to anything is useless. Now your smartiness is harming you to see big picture. Point of any spiritual teaching is trying to have best possible life and if you argue that even that is clinging then I can't say anything, because you're too trapped in your on logic that you can't see what is being said. If you'd ask any great spiritual teacher that should you eat healthy and aim to have great relationships with people, I'd guess they'd say big YES.

@Devin How they are distractions, if they grow you and make you in a state that you can grow with more ease? They make you appreciate life more, because without those things under control, you would get too unhealthy, full of traumas and loneliness. What many people get wrong is that if you don't need something it doesn't mean that you cannot have it and enjoy it. Point of letting attachments go is that you don't cling to these things. It's huge misunderstanding that you should live in a cave doing nothing if you're perfect zen guy. Perfect zen guy could be your best friend without you even noticing too much.

@Devin I mean what you even thought when you were writing me that reply that those things are distraction .

@Majed Only thing people who answer here can give is their perspective of what worked for them and you actually don't benefit out of that. It's matter of do you seek for more understanding or certain state of mind. I as you would still keep contemplation with your routine, because almost nobody has thought all meaningful things to their end and that makes them suffer in their lifes. Remember that meditation is used only to train you to have these states outside of meditation aka mindfulness. -joNi-

@Devin Yeah, I was wrong, solving hunger and bad living habits including poor diet, relationships and emotional problems is just a distraction. (sarcasm)

@Leo Gura I'd say that everything which solves even one big problem in your life makes you closer to god-realization, because all those are in your way to attain it. Teaching poor people how to work doesn't lead them to god-realization directly, but doing so helps them to get into state of living that they can actually start using their time to spiritual stuff which eventually leads or doesn't to god-realization. At least their lifes get better and that's the end goal, isn't it. Even you have practical teachings of dating or whatever and you should know that they just clear negative junk out of people's lifes. -joNi-

@evolving55555 That's actually what I wanted to say. So pick up things you like to work on for example: being present during the day, trying to see positive sides of things, contemplating some ideas. Minimize the things you focus on one period and try to have lot of free time just to be and chill with others. Because this whole life is after all a vacation, don't train for it like you would to some competition. Whole point of life is to love/appreciate/accept present moment as it is so don't do too many things so you don't end up not seeing the forest for the trees.

@evolving55555 First advice for you is that stop seeing it as non-vacation or working. If I'd be where you're I would take everything out of it, because most likely it'll be one of your life's peak moments. Try to be conscious in whatever you do and meditate at evenings and mornings so you get into great state of being. Don't forget to write your thoughts to some paper. There is nothing wrong with chilling with people, because making deep connection with other people and nature anyways is top priority of life. Sharing your experience with others can actually be beneficial, because that cleans your mind. -joNi-

@SQAAD It depends on the state and perspective you're looking things from. Of course from limited perspective you can divide things to opposite definitions, but that doesn't make the things any more bad or good. What even is bad? Thing which you don't like. Try to define good or bad without making that definition from your perspective. What would that even be a like. -joNi-

@Devin There is a benefit in both having social circle around you and being completely alone. If you have lot of interactions with people you learn to build confidence to express yourself fully and your loving skills. Almost all relationships and friendships teach you valuable lessons if you are just open to learn from them. In the other hand if you want to level down and practice on easier environment first you could just be with yourself meditating and contemplating for a while. Still being with humans is just better if you don't get distracted too much with their stupidity. Just know that they don't know better. -joNi-

This thread is example of how human interactions could be, if everyone would focus to feeling love and making more with their actions.

@Vynce You just need to be more excited towards the conversation and that can't really be faked. Easy fix is not to be in situation you don't like. Generate deep desire about some things in life and try to lead any conversation close to these things and you may be genuinely interested about these meetings. Also all social situations are most likely pretty small talkish so you should have lot of different exciting stories to share and make the conversation more fun for both/all of you. -joNi-

@WokeBloke It was never about do you exist outside of my experience, but do I even have experience outside of yours.

@Razard86 You see how good it make you feel to make that post. That is what I meant that you live in your own emotions and you decide what actions you make to produce wanted situation, feeling or impact. Everything you do is to make yourself see how loving you can be and that is what makes you feel awesome. As we talked in another thread and I hope we'll continue; love is what you put in. What is even better is that when you see that you do everything to feel love and that's exactly what everyone else is doing as well.