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@hyruga Doesn't every business work like you pay something and receive service, product or something else? At least for me it works perfectly as a motivator to be more masculine and making things happen. I understand that more spiritual businesses make their imago look very friendly, emphatic and easy to approach. The thing is that I've already watched the video I linked about Andrew Tate and I am watching another one right now and I don't see too many problems in him. For your info I am very good to ready people's personalities.

@zurew Yeah they could invest it more and more, but even they themself know that having lot of money itself doesn't bring any value to their life, but the thing that they buy with it and enjoy them. Watch movie called The Wolf of Wall Street and you may taste what it could be. It also is one of the best movies there is from some perspective. Also you should try to see why we disagree, because there is a lesson in that too. @Nilsi I also don't need these thing including other very basic things, but as I said that if I'd have these things I wouldn't be unhappy from that tho . Being outside of the matrix is more like the thing which I'd like to have. It brings you freedom to express yourself as you want according to your highest values. I don't actually even see how that wouldn't be something what every spiritual person would like to have. It just gives more possibilities.

@zurew Rich people aren't spending their last money on these goodies, but they have so much of it that they don't even know where to put all of it. Also if you are spiritual person I'd say that these experiences and speed of life that you get from being rich and outside of matrix are something which will up your perspective very much about life. Of cource you could think what I said as a excuse, but I am not about to debate about this thing, because it seems that right now all I can do is to show you this perspective and let you do whatever you want, because I can't force you to do anything.

@Scholar Remember that if I value nice things and beautiful moments, it doesn't make you more evolved as a human than me. @soos_mite_ah As I stated on the original post and even answered to another user I am not here to defend or attack him, but to make more sense of this topic in holistic level which makes people connect with each other easier. See that world isn't your buddies versus enemies. There aren't enemies, but just people with different perspectives and if they don't see something which you see then you should go and help them. Hating those other people who you think are your enemies doesn't bring more love to your life tho, remember that.

@zurew I, when I have enough money, because I don't understand why couldn't you have both of them. First reason is that tier 2 people are rare and most of them have used their life merely on spirituality or on something similar. If you get unhappy by buying something nice for yourself, because you think that you could've used that money to someone else then you certainly have some shadow sides that should be given attention, because that's unhealthy. Please show me if I'm missing on something you wanted to show me. @Nilsi Not necessarily tho.

@Scholar Listen, the thing is that I value love and connection (which actually are the same) over anything, but that doesn't change that if I'd make myself succesful, I'd have more resources to live in that universe where I can share love to others. I mean I can buy more goodies for others. In the meantime is it too bad to buy something nice for yourself if you are spending enough to help others anyways? Even helping others is thing you'll exhaust when you do it enough. Maybe you get wrong picture of me, because I am talking about success side of things rather than my normal spiritual side.

@Scholar The thing is that I don't find that lifestyle unattractive at all, but still I'd say I am tier 2 thinker or whatever scale you want to use to value me with. I wouldn't have any problems having couple of beautiful cars in the yard. That doesn't still say that I'd be all for the material stuff and I'd still do spiritual stuff and think about life. Why couldn't you have these unbelievable things that you could enjoy in the meantime? Point of spirtuality imo is not to stop valuing material things, but not to get attached to them while still enjoying them. You don't need to choose between these lifes, but you could have both of them, if you just want enough.

@Razard86 I didn't feel attacked, don't even know where that came from, but my whole point was to show that there are these 2 energies that would be good to be had. Andrew Tate just is an excellent in his masculine energy side and that is what many of us lack and should aim to have more of. Also I tried to explain the concept that fire can be dangerous if you don't know how to use it and so are lot of other things. If you restrict yourself from these things instead of learning to work with them I think it is not the most optimal route and you are left with lot of missing things in life.

@Carl-Richard Yeah, but then there is a beautiful perspective; if you can have this level of crazy life being stupid, what life could you have being smart. It's that most of us don't really use the masculine energy that I presented on the original post and that is what we need to start doing more, if we want to have life full of things which we wanted. I mean you can just alone use feminine energy, meditate and gain love to universe and "win" life that way, but most of us still want to do something with our lifes and that's when you need to see what others have done to make you motivated.

@8gates You can only love or hate that picture of what is presented of someone, if you don't know him/her personally. What I found from fast glance was that Dan Bilzerian has done more stupid things which actually are harmful for others directly for example throwing girl from his rooftop and breaking her ankle. Also the thing is that Andrew Tate actually teaches things, but Dan just lives a crazy life which isn't bad thing per se. It's not about do they have similar lifestyle, but what are the values and how much harm they make to others on the way and is it purposeful or that you don't see what harm you made.

@StarStruck Could you elaborate your perspective little bit more?

@Osaid Again one great response to this thread, thanks from that.

@Carl-Richard Exactly! Both male and female energy feel very good and even better when combined. It is just all about the values. -joNi-

@undeather We talk again and it is nice to see that you have really holistic way to look at this thing. I also like Andrew Tate and a lot. There isn't any problem liking him, because liking something doesn't straight mean that you agree with everything he says. Probably there is only one guy who you agree everything with and it's you, yourself. Having unhealthy masculinity means that you lack energy in femininity side and vice versa. Your reply is exactly what I waited there to come when I wrote that post. Thanks -joNi-

@seriousman24 Yeah, it is useful to see how others live, because it is perspective of how life could be lived. I don't say that you should copy it or deny it completely, but I say that it opens your mind to such possibilites. There is something to learn from all new perspectives and that's the beauty of life. You can learn something everyday if you're just open to these chances. Connor and Tate are good, because they show you how powerful you can be in súccess scale if you'd just want it enough.

@Nilsi Yes, you're absolutely correct that it's like playing with fire when listening to people like Andrew Tate. It's only problematic when you don't know what you should know about the fire and that's the reason I am teaching how the fire works. Actually we agree more than you thought in the beginning. Congratulations for seeing that! It would be fun to talk with you more and your more open way of discussing makes it even better. Thanks for understanding -joNi-

@Nilsi That's not what I said and you know that. You're just trying to make me look fool by using Straw man argument. I ask you nicely to change your tone, because right now it is not really holistical and spiritual. If you want to argue about this thing go somewhere else, because point of this post is to build bridge between perspectives as it was already stated in the original post itself. You may not like what I said, but at least respect me as any grown adult would do. Much love to you .

@Nilsi @Razard86 You understood me wrongly. This wasn't some defending speech for Andrew tate or attack towards him. What I wrote is a great lesson how you should think about these things and how tier 2 type of conversation looks like. So it wasn't about anything personal about him, but you guys. It's your spiritual and practical journey in your own life and I showed how you can use people who you think are your enemies to gain insights and learn from your shadow.

@Leo Gura I agree on what you said, but you should make video, blog post or state it on the forum that even if something doesn't directly make you god-realized it can still be benefical stepping stone towards that, because as you know we have to go through spiral dynamics, ego-development and other similar models' stages in order to reach higher. Everytime when someone in sheep stages even uses word spirituality it is vote for higher consciousness collectively. I mean at least I'd like to see society reach higher levels in my life time. -joNi-

@Devin I agree, enjoying life requires that you accept present moment as it is and feel the connection to the world "around you". It's not that you need to work, but you could if you want its benefits that it offers. You could do experiment and ask couple homeless people on the streets that if they could start working somewhere and have house would the do it. Ask for example 10 or 15 people to guarantee broader perspective and it can prove me wrong or right, but at least it gives perspective to the thing from the right people.

@Devin You're lost confucing absolute truth with relative domain. Yeah there maybe isn't bad or good life from certain perspective, because what the terms good or bad even mean. Still I guess you agree that you want your life to be extremely enjoyable and if not why would you ask questions about masters and where to find them. Yeah I absolutely believe that if you give enough time and needed conditions anyone could change their life for good. The problem in being stuck in bad life situation is not that they aren't trying, but that they need little help from someone to get right back to track.

@Devin First you said that focusing to basic stuff in life is a distraction. Then I explained to you that if you don't focus to basic stuff you're going to end up in a situation in life that you don't like. Basicly I'm trying to show the importance of making great decisions and not fully expecting meditation to fill your stomach and make you healthy with good relationships which aren't abusing you or doing any more harm to you. Then you agreed that the life on the streets isn't better. Could we say that taking care of your life is not a distraction from the perspective of having good life and you can't meditate yourself out of all situations without taking actions?

@Devin You are unbeliavable in your skill not to answer to thing what the other one said. Yeah, you don't need to tell them anything and most likely their life won't change and they are stuck being poor, angry to the society and sad with all possible illnesses. Again this conversation wasn't about should you do something or not, but is mastering basic stuff distraction as you phrased it or not. To me it is really weird that you don't see the obvious here. Again if you think that being poor in the streets is better life than not being then why wouldn't you join in to the parties.

@Devin You are just circling around the topic. I said that if you want to evolve to deep spiritual topics it'd be beneficial to have basics mastered. As you saw from my example that without good founding people aren't ready to do deep spiritual work, because they are too much in denial and they think about their suffering. Most likely they wouldn't even understand the reason to meditate, because they would laugh at you and ask "will I get something to eat from doing so". If you'd say you get something even better they'd just continue laughing even more.

@Carl-Richard I quoted Devin from another thread and he is simply denying those things and thinks that you can just go directly to god-realization. That made me see that many people think that spirituality is just going to cave, dropping attachments and doing nothing with their lifes. It wasn't merely about meditation, but about mastering basic stuff in life, because without those everything could fall apart. Also if something makes you "enlightened" or not is very personal thing and only you could know answer for that for yourself. -joNi-