Federico del pueblo

@Dear Fiona Hey thanks for your insightful post! It's inspiring to see how much change you were able to achieve in terms of your emotions and your relationship and that you reinvented yourself. Great job! @Eph75 Got it! Thanks for your guidance and recommendations! @Osaid Thanks for your detailed answer! You made a lot of good points. I especially like that insight about how the other guy has literally no idea who I am, what my background is, what I'm dealing with and so on. He is basically judging a mental image that he created, which he confuses with myself. I reflected again and realized that most of my strong emotional reaction on that night was not primarily due to the guy himself. Imagine it more like this: you've been working on something for a decade. The first years after getting I'll you just somehow manage to finish your academic studies. My entire masters degree I had to do while already being sick and not even knowing what I was sick with. Then after that I worked for some time as an engineer, basically just suffering from symptoms every day, but torturing myself because I had no idea what else to do. Then I stopped working. The condition had already gotten drastically worse at this point, so I regret my former choices of just continuing and not stopping sooner. Then several years of research about the illness, using that drastically reduced mental energy I still had (which was more suffering). Then several years of taking specific action based on the new understanding, failed approaches, more research, more approaches that didn't work etc. And now finally making some improvements (but rather slow and much more is still needed). If then somebody like that dude comes along and judges me solely based on the most surface level fact that I'm not working then this is like some final drop that makes the barrel burst. @QQQ Thank you man! Much love for you!!!

Interesting. Any chance you can still remember a specific video in which he talked about that? Or has this gotten lost when all the older videos got deleted?

@Ulax Oh yeah, I've heard of that book many times and still haven't taken the time to read/listen to it. Thanks for the recommendation.

@Eph75 Ok, thanks. That makes lot of sense. Becoming better at observing the emotion and perceiving of it as an event, rather than my personal problem. I could have known about that approach from the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. I'll try to be more mindful, less attached to and less judgemental about my emotions.

Sure. Which book is it?

Haha, oh wow! That is boss level self assertiveness here. I like it ? @Sincerity Thanks! I appreciate that. @Lila9 Thank you so much, that's a good reminder!

Oh wow man, those are some very interesting thoughts and I hadn't thought about it in this way. Thanks for sharing that perspective. That sounds exactly like my experience. Because it is true that in my society people who exploit the social system are judged very negatively. There are even like specific phrases and denominations for people who do that. I live in Germany, Germany could be considered a "performance society", like you are what you achieve. And then there silly sayings like "Hartz 4 und der Tag gehört dir" which translates to "Hartz 4 (the name of some kind of social benefit) and the day is yours" poking fun at people who just prefer to stay at home and watch TV and drink beer, financed by other people's tax money. So from there comes my insecurity, because I can be afraid to be put in one box with all these lazy, unambitious people who live from other people's money. And the fact that you would not at all be able to tell that I'm dealing with some debilitating condition adds to that anxiety, I might even look like I'm more vital/vibrant and positive than a lot of other people, which can sometimes inhibit me a bit too, because I don't want to look all too well and positive after having told someone about my situation to not look like some simulated. I know this is all silly, but these mental programs are rooted deep. I've had to do a lot of work to improve the insecurity about this stigma and there's still some more to be done. Thanks for all the kind words man. I appreciate that I can be helpful for some of you. All the best for you!

So you mean in a spiritual sense, like expanding my sense of self into something much bigger than "a man"? Sure. The context is interesting here considering that the dude is someone who literally works every day, Monday to Sunday, 12-15 hours. He has some businesses in the field of construction (like roof constructions and steel constructions of all kinds) and is the definition of a hustler. Seems like someone with very conservative values. So I don't know if he's doing it out of passion or because he was raised to believe in work above everything else, but I don't think it's healthy to work that much (and hard af), but who knows, maybe it's good for him. Correct. That's like 90% of the emotional side of things in my case. Others' perceptions of me regarding a bunch of specific things like the health/job Situation. It is what it is. It's improving though. Actually today I'm already much more chill about the incident. That was just a very narrow, socially conditioned mindset combined with too much alcohol. I don't really judge people who are not enlightened or in the process of getting enlightened as failures, I mean I'm far from being enlightened myself ?

Thanks for your kind words! You're a very good soul (well...I don't know if souls exist, but you know what I mean ?). I especially like the That's deep stuff right there. So thank you a lot! Oh yes, that's very true. If people see me they think "this dude seems so vital, there's no way he could be dealing with anything serious". I responded with something like "I think you're misunderstanding something here, like I'm not doing this to have some eternal vacation financed by the government, but because I have no other option" and then explained a few more things. But all seemed to go over his head. He had some really weird perception, kind of like assuming that I simply don't know what to do with my life and there for I just chill and do nothing. Just really silly, but yeah I should not even have taken it seriously at all, considering his level of alcohol intoxication he already had...

Sure. The hard part for me is to "not use" (i.e. not give a damn about) society's standards. That requires work for me. Yep. Good advice! I'll do my best Thanks man! Sorry to hear that. I hope things work out well for you! Oh thanks man! That's a lot of useful advice! Fortunately I think I'm already (finally) healing. It took me years to even get correctly diagnosed because my version of the health condition is kind of atypical, which made it tricky. And it took me some more years to find out what actually needs to happen in order to recover. Apparently it's also taking me yet another view years to recover by applying all the right strategies. So we're looking at an entire decade from mid-twenties to mid-thirties, which is kind of frustrating because that's usually such a good age to live life to the fullest. Anyway there's no way around continuing the work and eventually recover. I'll make it or die trying Oh wow, that's a lot of interesting stuff. I think for now I want to continue with my current approach because I've already investigated so deeply into the topic and things are getting better (even if it's a bit slow). I'm also of the belief that my condition at the most fundamental level was caused and perpetuated by trauma, that seems quite obvious when I look at when the condition started (and how) and the emotional baggage that I've dealt with. So I'm working through all of that. These social anxieties around how people perceive of my situation are also a part of the puzzle, because this creates stress that contributes the root dysfunction of my nervous system...so everything needs to be released. Thanks for all your help and suggestions bro, I hope you'll also find the solutions for your struggles, that would be awesome! Keep grinding ??

@Loba oh man....I actually feel ashamed that our first exchange on this forum was so negative and combative... I still remember that I posted a bunch of negative bullshit directed at you in some thread of male/female dynamics and I basically became a triggered moron. Sorry for that, you know how it can work sometimes, our little egos get triggered etc. Thanks for your kind words. I do what I can. I have to sleep now and will check in again tomorrow. And I agree, we have to find purpose in these complicated situations and see what we can make out of them...it can be a blessing if we're willing to investigate. Other people are there to make us stronger, even if they are a bunch of insensitive bullies, it's their job to be a sparring partner for us. And when they die with 85 years of age they won't understand not even 30% of the consciousness stuff that we're exploring right now....but let's not get all that cocky We just do what we can and whish everybody else the best on their journey. Best wishes!

@StarStruck good to see that you're becoming more aware of these things and are changing ?? You'll be surprised how well women will treat you when you've gotten good at asserting your boundaries and at speaking your truth.

The misunderstanding here is that this is blunt. It's actually not blunt to inform someone that you won't pay for all/many drinks, but "only" for one. Imagine if you and I randomly got to know each other at a social activity and then I'd invite you for a coffee, simply because I wanted to. Would you then be mad if I told you that if you want more drinks after the coffee you'd have to pay for them yourself? Probably not, you might even offer to pay the next round of drinks. You don't say this to a girl in a challenging/sort of serious/butthurt or insecure way, you totally no big deal it. Don't be afraid how she perceives you, nobody should expect you to pay several drinks for them and if she does she might just want to exploit you or simply has taken on certain societal beliefs about men being the ones who pay. In either case you don't need that girl and you don't have to feel bad about her having a negative perception of you. Doing things that are uncomfortable (but aligned with your values) is part of your maturing process, so it's good for you to do them.

You could have said: "Fine, we can drink more. I invite you for the coffee, if you want more drinks then you'd have to pay for them yourself, just so there's no confusion later on ;)"

@pfletcha Sounds like there must have been either some kind of trauma OR long-term social conditioning regarding sex (typically received from your parents), so that you ended up with these unhelpful emotions and beliefs. Do you remember what your very first sexual experiences were like or whether there were any significant other negative experiences that could have affected your sexual confidence? Like for example if you get repeatedly shamed for your body as a boy you could create certain emotional problems that will affect your sexuality. The problem with these emotional issues regarding sex is that they create this vicious cycle of negative experiences which lead to negative emotional responses (and beliefs) that will affect your next experience in a negative way and so on. So you should definitely research different techniques for trauma release or "trigger reduction" (working with emotional triggers) because it seems like your brain has learnt to associate sexuality with stress and fear and thus any sexual situation (or maybe even just thoughts about sex with a new girl) puts you in this negative emotional state. How is it actually when you know you have a date at home with a new girl? Does that already create anxiety? Anyway, I had similar issues. For me working with Emotional freedom techniques (aka tapping) has worked really well, because it allows you to very specifically target these triggers of anxiety around sex and thus over time the negative emotions just get resolved which then allows good states to take over (arousal, relaxation etc.). And yeah, in case you watch p*rn, please get rid of that because in cases like yours this will typically add to the anxiety and emotional weirdness, you're basically watching other guys doing things with girls that you're currently not capable of doing, which will likely program your subconscious mind in an unhelpful way. Instead do "healthy masturbation" in which you just use your own imagination (maybe picturing a girl from RL or a imaginary one). Let me know if anything is unclear.

It's important to understand the context though. Like, I had one experience in a eastern European "party" City that basically resembles the experience of Leo's friend, just that I didn't stop the time with a clock to know whether it was after ten or rather thirty minutes. But the girls were from the US, partying in some eastern European city, knowing they would never be there again, and that they would never meet any guy they met there again. And then girls are much more likely to be in a "ok, let's do a bunch of the slutty things I can never do otherwise" kind of mode.

Just go to a major city where people from all over the world (or at least the entire country) go to to party, then have decent player kind of game in some well crowded night club and things like this can happen, even on the dance floor btw ?

@Brent Rothwell First of all I would try to do a bunch of night game sessions and see how it goes there. In a lot of night time venues approaching looks more natural and like "it just happened". Maybe night game goes better and you can build some confidence there which you can carry over to day game. Then I would consider whether you have good fashion, like if a girl sees you for just 2 seconds, is her inner response "yeah this guy looks well put together" or more like "meh...I don't know...nah let's get away from him". Because first impressions matter. So now to the opener itself: This sounds okayish, but could be better. See if you can be more specific. "Beautiful" and "pretty" sound very general and like you might have said it to 500 girls already. Also these two words are slightly cheesy. I think if you just used "I just love your look" and then add something like "it's elegant but also somewhat crazy...so I was like 'this girl probably won't be boring' ". This should create more intrigue and it also has a bit of a challenge to it due to the "not boring" part. Another kind of opener that you can try is a push pull as a opener. Here you would start with something like "hey, excuse me...Hi, you look kinda adorable..." (This is already a bit of a push pull due to the "kinda", so the compliment is softened) and then you can add some kind of tease like "but you also look like trouble a little bit...so I was intrigued and had to say 'hi' ". Now the girl isn't put so much on a pedestal because you also say something a bit challenging. But the most important thing is delivery. You must own your opener. You really have to look like you want to be in this situation, but many guys look like it's a torture for them to speak to the girl and thus they look like drug dealers who don't want to be caught. So you have to speak loud enough, speak clearly, hold good eye contact and speak with the right intonation. The intonation must be the one of a statement, not the one of a question. The more insecure you feel the more likely you're gonna sound like you're asking something instead of affirming something. What you say should have a small exclamation mark at the end of it. Not three big !!! but one small ! Also the doesn't seem like good game, because you're asking for a rather big commitment of her (getting to know you), based on almost zero information. It's better to just declare what you wanted to do as a reaction to the good first impression you got from her (so I wanted to come and say 'hi'). Consider how much more intriguing and challenging it is for her to hear "so I wanted to quickly find out whether you're as cool as your look suggests" or so. Then another big thing is buying time. Throwing in a false time constraint is very useful. So if you say something like "I have to leave in a minute, but just quickly..." you signal to her that this thing won't take long and that can buy you minute or two in which you can convey your personality. And always make sure to carry the conversation. If awkward silence arises you're the one responsible for filling it, because she probably won't and instead might just flee ("yeah I must go now" etc).

As is the case for 99% of guys. Not if you go about it with the right mindset (see below). That scientists probably hasn't gotten laid from night game even just once in his lifetime. Anyway this seems like tribe psychology. It doesn't work like this in the modern day and age as soon as your tribe (city) has enough people so that not everybody knows you. You could have been rejected 5000 times and a girl wouldn't even know. Rejections will sting a little bit (or significantly) in the beginning, but you can desensitize yourself over time. When you get rejected accept the pain in the moment (don't try to force the pain away), then see if you can find something to be proud of. Or find something that was funny about the approach/reaction. Make this fun. Don't try to create this perfect seducer type of self image. Rather laugh about the bullshit that happens. Like, when you get an immediate blank kind of rejection you just say in your head "yeeeeaaah, here comes the MASTER PUA, MPUA, MPUA! (in a joking way)" Also Rsd Tyler once said something along the lines of "ok, here's how rejection works...you get rejected and it stings, then you get rejected a few hundred more times and thus you just care less and less, until you've stopped caring altogether. Once you've stopped caring about rejection, you look like you don't care...and when you look like you don't care then you look like you're getting laid...and when you look like you're getting laid you'll get laid". Hope this helps

And what does that mean? You can't get dates until you're rich and famous? ? We don't know what you did on the date. It have been your vibe too. If I go by your posts on the forum then I could well imagine that you give off a vibe of desperation, especially considering that it was your first date in X years. Bro, you need 1 date per week, not 1 date in 2 years lol. New girl. That last one is already unattainable for you at this point.

@Someone here have you actually ever studied any kind of attraction theory? I mean, this is kind of the prerequisite for guys who haven't been well socialized and/or always been attractive to girls. Get in some good theory, then apply it, then adjust and learn and if necessary ask more specific questions.

Don't worry about that. Pick up was basically designed to mimic status. If you are good at pick up your behaviours will elicit very similar responses to that what status/power/money elicits. Well executed pick up creates a sense of social proof (which is a type of status) even when you are just by yourself, because your behaviours then indicate that you must have been successful with women and treated well by people in the past, otherwise you wouldn't be able to behave so socially confident and savvy. This doesn't mean that you should walk around in some potato sack with holes in it and have all your front teeth missing. You should obviously take some care of yourself. Also it is of course helpful to have status/power, but it is not NEEDED to get laid. Interestingly there can be men who are financially very successful but still suck with women and there can also be broke scumbags who take hot girls home. You just must be persistent with your practice, learn from your mistakes and not immediately give up when you fail to then blame it on your lack of "resources".

The advice would be to get good with girls. Once you can get laid with girls of that calibre somewhat regularly you won't hate them anymore. If your game is good (and also some decent fashion and you're not a Desaster in life) you have enough value for these girls too. That's why good game has so much to do with validation. These girls are so used to receiving tons of validation, thus they value the guy from which they can hardly get that validation, because he has options and standards etc., but who still might be attainable if they match his standards sufficiently. That's what these girls respond to well, the guy who is not impossible but hard to win over, who's willing to walk away, unwilling to take her shit, who doesn't try to impress her and so on. And don't be mad at these girls. It's good that it works the way it works. Like this, if you put in the work you can eventually have these girls whilst 97% of guys can't. What do you think how much normal girls hate men because we value nice tits and booty so much, so that an average girl never has a chance against a very hot girl? That's even tougher than what men have to deal with. So be grateful you can do something about your situation.

Sounds like now he's got a good story to tell ?

Haha great. "Will you handcuff me later on?! I've been a naughty boy :)"