SASAM

What is your vape cart ratio - specifically with the first story?

@Leo Gura Make a video about it then. Or is that the one topic you refuse to touch?

I'd like to see Leo breakdown The System of White Supremacy (Racism).

Thanks, checking this out now. My man Wattles has yet to lead me astray (NB: I don't take the 'cream of tartar' advice literally):

There is nothing simplistic about drawing the line at forced vaccinations. I will rewatch this video, though. Thank you.

I see. So, then, what is the serious non-materialistic paradigm's approach to viruses and vaccines?

@Leo Gura Still trying to figure out how viruses are real when brains are not. Not trying to be a 'hoaxer'; just joined this forum to exchange with people who were trying to understand the ultimate verities of life; who were interested in deep metaphysical truth. I would've thought a convo like this would be a bit different here. Leo's breakdown of science on Youtube is advanced. He exhaustively lays out the follies of modern science (Scientism); the implicit bias and limitations of today's science. He suggests that people's belief in modern science is no different from a religious person's belief in their religion. No different. A person spewing out scientific facts and literature to prove their point, without a deep and critical epistemological analysis, is no different from a Christian proving their point by referring to passages and verses in the Bible. This thread is filled with arguments pointing to modern scientific proofs; seemingly to an audience that on some level understands the serious biases and limitations of modern science in relation to 'objective truth'. This audience ostensibly understands the perspective that 'there is nothing but subjectivity'. I have given a good comparison in how today's society does not give a damn about rational objective truth, saving lives and protecting others when it conflicts to their individual and group preferences (carcinogenic meats and infant male circumcision); and in my ultimate analysis I see a deluded and miseducated public who place their faith on science, which they do not understand the limitations of, who are moving not by rationality, but by fear; Fear that this 'new normal' will be permanent, fear of their loved ones dying, fear of themselves dying, fear that they'll lose the future they envisaged before the lockdown, and even their homes. The problem is; fear unchecked has a way of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. At the end of the day, I respect people's right to take the vaccine if they so choose, and would like to see more people defending people's right to opt-out of taking the vaccine, without any restrictions on their freedoms - without shame or duress. To me, the line is clear on the reasonability of what society can demand here - it stops at forcing people to put substances into their bodies. May seem arbitrary to some; not to me. Anti-maskers are not identical to anti-vaxxers. A more appropriate term might be anti-forcing-through-group-shaming-and-social-restriction-vaxxers. The second you try to impose your worldview on another to the detriment of their freedom, you are on thin ethical ice.

Great points about religion. But both points are cases in which society is stepping in to prevent the religion from harming others who are not able to protect themselves. This is a case of protecting religious (or free-thought) adherents from society. Why have we not stepped in to stop male circumcision (for minors)? Again, because society does not follow logic, we follow our irrational likes and inclinations. Today, most of society likes materialism, pharma, processed meats, and cut (circumsized/mutilated) male genitalia. Tomorrow, they may like spiritualism, holism, fasting, prayer, and intact male genitalia. The individual's rights should be upheld, affirmed, and protected regardless of the whims of the current masses.

Certainly, I am hyperfocusing, because I am an individual. You are also avoiding my questions. I actually would like to know whether you think we will save more lives by mass vaccinations versus putting a cancer warning on processed meats. You may think I'm asking in bad faith, but I promise you I actually would like to know. Which do you think would save more lives in 10 years? I think you can probably guess my views on drinking and driving as well, although, if I express them I am fairly certain most people who may have been agreeing with me before will diverge.

Would you say that a Christian Scientist or a Jehovah's Witness should be shamed, judged, pressured and restricted until they take this vaccine for the greater good? These groups are religiously barred from participating in modern pharma, but society is barred from restricting or discriminating against them (in Canada). Society and the constitution has already declared that these groups are exempt and should be protected from any discrimination because of their beliefs. They MUST be allowed to go to the same schools, malls, amusement parks, etc. that the rest of society is allowed to, by law (where I am from). This is protected by Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Constitution Act). I am saying that one shouldn't have to be part of one of these fringe groups to be protected from discrimination. You should simply be protected and free to choose for yourself (in Canada, I believe you'd be protected under Freedom of Conscience) Live and let live.

I get that all that stuff has convinced you. Why do you think you have the right to impose restrictions on my freedom to believe and act otherwise? There should be the highest of highest limitations and care to ensure that your fears and convictions do not interfere with my freedoms and vice versa. I am thankful I live in a place where people understand this and are willing to speak out to protect those freedoms: https://www.saanichnews.com/news/doug-ford-backtracks-on-new-police-covid-19-powers-amid-intense-backlash/

The logic is that The World Health Organization, the same organization that declared this pandemic, declared that these foods were cancer-causing in 2015. In science, declaring something as causative is almost never done, it is mostly correlative and suggestive/supportive, so this was big news. Not just 'crappy foods'. It was in all the headlines for a few weeks and then thizzled out. This declaration should have been viewed as a huge deal with massive societal changes in attitudes to follow, similar if not identical to that which happened with cigarettes . Society decided: no, 'we like bacon.' My point is that society is more motivated by arbitrary feelings, likes, dislikes, and fear, mostly, rather than logic. And further, elected officials are more motivated by big business (bacon/hot dog manufacturers) than the health of the people. I don't think that changed from 2015. Likewise, everyone's seemingly new sense of societal duty for this virus was nonexistent when it came to bacon and hot dogs in 2015.

What will save more people in the long run: Mass vaccinations or slapping a Cancer-warning sticker on hot dogs and bacon? "This same World Health Organization came out with the (to me, world-shattering) news that hot dogs and bacon are to be classified as Class 1 Carcinogens back in 2015; the same cancer-causing group as cigarettes and alcohol. However, society did not react by slapping CANCER warning stickers on all hot dog and bacon packages at your grocery store, as would be logically and socially-ethically consistent. Especially as heart disease and cancer are the top causes of death in these societies. No, we implicitly decided that an individual's right to eat hot dogs and bacon without being reminded that they are cancer causing superseded the massive (although distant) burden on our health care system. "

Thank you for you tact and concern. I genuinely want what is best for you as well, sir. Absolutely. If you've been following the majority with regard to diet and medicine, and have not spent years trying to find and follow a holistic, natural lifestyle, I think it would only make sense for you to be consistent and take the vaccine. This same World Health Organization came out with the (to me, world-shattering) news that hot dogs and bacon are to be classified as Class 1 Carcinogens back in 2015; the same cancer-causing group as cigarettes and alcohol. However, society did not react by slapping CANCER warning stickers on all hot dog and bacon packages at your grocery store, as would be logically and socially-ethically consistent. Especially as heart disease and cancer are the top causes of death in these societies. No, we implicitly decided that an individual's right to eat hot dogs and bacon without being reminded that they are cancer causing superseded the massive (although distant) burden on our health care system. I know that a communicable virus is not the same as self-caused disease from over-eating. But my general malaise with virtue signaling in society probably started there.

Very good question, however, I don't think I could answer you honestly without being seen as going against the guidelines along the lines of 'covid-hoaxing'. So I'll just say my life experience and education has led me to a worldview that sees viruses on the same level of reality as brains. And I see consciousness/direct experience as more real (as in causal to) these physical phenomena. I also subscribe to the following as common-sense advice in regards to the medico-pharmaceutico-industrial complex: Again, I understand this is a touchy subject. Please censor my post if anything I'm saying crosses the line. I do not wish to violate any guidelines and truly appreciate being able to be a member of this forum. Peace.