BadHippie

Are you serious? So taking a vaccine every few years (some people here in Germany even talk about yearly vaccination) is focusing on the cause? For me focusing on the cause would be advising people to have a healthy lifestyle. Not telling people to stay indoors, prohibiting sports, having curfeys, making people anxious. This actually makes people sick. The vaccine also makes people sick, but of course they are desired side effects...

@Forestluv Can you post the study at least? I went through a lot of "peer-reviewed" studies, which doesn´t mean the science is good. You make another assumption that I am not being interested in expanding my knowledge. I am actually. Sadly this forum is the complete opposite of what I expected. Most of what I see here are dogmatic views, which I can put into different perspectives. Most people here seem to think that there is only one legit perspective when it comes to COVID, which is really not doing this forum any good.

@Forestluv You always talk about this asymptomatic spread. Can you show me a study or something? That goes completely against my own personal experience, which is king.

@Forestluv I think you also do the thing you call "fearmongering" by making COVID-19 into a Killer-Virus, which it isn´t. People actually seem to think that it´s more dangerous to have a positive PCR-Test that tells them they have Corona, than taking a vaccines that still isn´t fully tested (long-term). @Opo This is what I call fearmongering. Why don´t you point it out to him - Forestluv? It seems to be fearmongering is only bad here if it´s fearmongering for the wrong cause. Yes Asymptomatic people can have damaged lungs. This doesn´t necessarily mean it comes from the Coronavirus. There are things like smoking, living in an environment with bad air, eating specific food that can damage cells etc.

@Fishmonk You have to be careful what you post here. People actually believe here, that it´s the "absolute good" if everyone gets vaccinated. Most people here don´t seem to realize that devilry often comes in the form of some narrative that says it´s "absolute good". I can see where your view on Leo comes from. The same goes for me, I thought Leo would be interested in different perspectives. As he always tells everyone his highest value is "truth". This doesn´t seem to be the case anymore. Otherwise he wouldn´t simply trash every single thing that questions his worldview. About herd immunity I think it´s quite interesting to realize that the WHO changed the definition again. They also changed the definition for pandemic before the swine flu. I hope some people will see the similarities between these two pandemics.

1. A conspiracy-theory is basically a theory about a conspiracy. Conspiracies can also be called plots, schemes or secret plans to deceive a group or an individual, or to gain some advantage over someone else. So a conspiracy-theorists is basically someone who studies, analyzes and understands (subjectively spoken) the social-techniques to deceive and releases them for public usage. A good example for practically used conspiracy-theory was the Stasi in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi), if you read their handbook there are tons of techniques to study there about how to manipulate public opinions. 2. Conspiracy-theories without negative framing come into being if someone can explain things, like that there are economic-crises or that people come into positions of power - which can be explained easily on the surface-level of events - by saying that there is someone pulling-wires in the background. E.g. when people started dying in some village back in the middle ages, a lot of people said there is some witch or something to explain those events. Or when someone explains wars by saying that it´s all because of the Bilderberger-meetings, because they want to give a boost to the arms industry (I am not saying any of these theories are true) Yet these theories are quite attractive to people, because it relieves them of the necessity to do the research that would be necessary to understand a system that´s so complex. Basically they use the experiences from their own life - people lying, people are bad - and project them onto some group or individuals. And tada, now some people think you know who´s good and evil and who you have to remove in order to make the conspiracy stop. 3. So conspiracy-theories emerge in societies if you can explain certain events differently. Different explanations for (most of the time) public events . e.g. JFK, 9/11, the pandemic. These perspectives are competing against each other, and people wanting to believe than one version is certainly true. And people thinking it would be for the best if the other perspectives could be pushed to the side and not listened to. So basically everyone who has a different opinion (explains things by saying there is some wire-pulling), about some collectively known "truth" (most of the time) is a conspiracy theorists, who is full of shit. People will rationalize the opinion by saying he is stupid, has some "evil" agenda, fell prey to right-wing propaganda and so on... So why is it not allowed to discuss (conspiracy)-theories about the world here? Even Leo said in one of his videos that we are a lot like chimps, who do a lot of scheming , fighting for status, backstabbing etc. Which basically is conspiring..

@Forestluv If it´s like that, can you show me a bit of the mountains of data? I searched for a long time, and couldn´t find any. I don´t think viruses don´t exist, just that we misinterpret them. I even checked John Franklin Enders work on Polio. He basically took fluids from a human with poliomyelitis to tissue cultures, which he said were sterilized... Then he made the assumption that the cells were dying because of the fluids (virus). Yet he didn´t take into account that the sterilization process of the cell cultures, was what killed the cells... You can check this out by reading his papers.

Yeah, I agree. We could smartly handle the pandemic, without fucking up the middle-class. Sweden is a good example, they have one of the lowest number of intensive-care beds, yet still manage without mandatory measures. Correct me if I am wrong. Germany has one of the highest number of intensive-care beds / population, yet we still struggle with authoritarian measures. Media is still telling us our hospitals are full, yet when I´ve been in the hospital in Winter, visiting my dad it was so empty it spooked me. Something seems fishy here...

@Forestluv What I wanted to tell you is that a lot of data-points that were released in 2020, actually weren´t new. They were simply not looking at the old Coronaviruses which act pretty similar. Most of the Data released till October wasn´t new to me, as there were a lot of experts telling us (here in Germany) what we have to expect. Maybe there were new ones, I just didn´t see them as new. As new is a relative notion. I don´t really focus on studies myself that much. Also I don´t think peer-review is as fool-proof as you make it seem. Give a virologist a paper from another virologist and he will probably review and proof it because he has a similar mindset, which doesn´t make it true. Honestly I don´t see why most people are so willing to cover half their faces when they are healthy. We lose a lot of facial expression, which is really important for healthy growth in children. Even for adults (check out Dr. Gerald Hüther, most famous neurobiologist here in Germany). I think you can buy his books in English as well. I also notices how wearing masks killed a lot of social interaction. It reduces our own inner need to socialize when people are wearing masks, as they don´t seem that approachable anymore. Basically what you do is increasing the CO2 you breath in if you wear a mask. I get headaches after less than 5 minutes of wearing. I am pretty sure that´s my body telling me to take of the mask and breath in normally. Also when we are healthy we are constantly breathing out viruses and breathing in fresh air, which is important to our body. When we wear a mask we are constantly breathing in our own viruses again, as some will stick to the inside of the face-mask. Then no one is wearing their mask correctly (at least here in Germany) which makes them even less healthy. People are putting them on/off a lot. They are touching the mask inside and outside and so on. What about all the trash we are making because of these stupid masks? I don´t want to support that to be honest. Also studies showed that asymptomatic people are super unlikely to spread the virus. I don´t know how you always come up with the worst comparisons... I won´t answer to that part about semen. Of course it´s second hand, as well as all of your knowledge about the topic of masks. Or did you do all the experiments yourself? If not you don´t have personal experience and it´s simply a belief. I am basing my view on masks more on the side of personal experience though. As well as talking or listening to different psychologists, teachers, kindergarteners, scientists, neurobiologists and so on. Of course some parts of what they say is still just belief, but I can confirm a lot of stuff in my own personal experience. I don´t think I am 100% correct. I will probably have pretty different opinions about a lot of stuff in 5 years. You as well probably. I put "virus" in quotes because I never confirmed for myself that there are "viruses". Did you make control experiments, with Koch´s postulates? I tried to look for papers where they claim to have isolated a virus. But I didn´t find a single one that´s compelling to me (bad methodology, wrong assumptions, no confirmation process...). But I would love it if you could show me one, as you are a trained Biologist. Did you ever check if the earth is truly spherical with your own eyes? I didn´t, yet I still belief it being so, as I saw a lot of pictures and compelling evidence. But it´s still just a belief, even if it´s very unlikely to be untrue.

@Forestluv And sending American soldiers there killing a lot of people isn´t a human rights violation? You again make it seem as if it´s okay for America to invade countries based on some wrong assumptions. America never started a war because of their "good nature" it was always to proceed with some agenda. The fabricated story made it possible to start the war, so I think it´s pretty important to understand how propaganda is used to make people support these stupid wars. You should check out Dr. Daniele Ganser (Historian from Switzerland) who´s focusing on undercover operations since WWII, crazy stuff he reveals.

It just depends on how you define "New-Age" for yourself. There´s no absolute answer to what "New-Age" means. It all depends on what you include and exclude into that concept.

@Preety_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony Another example of how news are used to fuel some agenda

Children can think pretty well, at least that´s my personal experience. If you look at society at large you can see how culture prevents people from looking deep into their conscience, so I´d disagree on that as well. If people could truly look at their own lives - objectively - simply by getting older, then we wouldn´t have as many problems as we currently have. What´s the difference between soul and spirit for you? I don´t see a difference personally. So you are basically saying the majority of humanity has forfeited their right to be considered human? Just because they do stuff that´s normal in their culture and are inhumane in your personal context? That´s some self-serving kind of view I must say.

It being over is a relative notion. There are ton of scientists suggesting it´s basically over and we are simply keeping up the numbers with unnecessary testing. I think you make some wrong assumptions there. We had a lot more information in January-March than you make it seem. Check out what Dr. Ly said back in January. He basically told us every symptoms COVID-19 would have back then, while mainstream media labelled them as new discoveries. Some people still belief masks for asymptomatic people are a good idea. Luckily now we had some courts in Germany evaluating the current scientific evidence and they now say that wearing masks is actually bad if you are healthy. Why are so many scientists still belief it then? If you check studies, that emphasize how important and good masks are against protecting against "Virus" you will realize that those are mostly based on calculations and bad models. Also they have culture telling them what is the "absolute" truth. They don´t want to be labelled as conspiracy-theorists for speaking out against masks or lockdown, so they have a strong bias towards believing the studies telling them that masks are a good idea. Keep in mind that just because you are a trained biologist, doesn´t mean you are free from distorting science or molding it to your pre-conceived beliefs. We have so many stupid scientists in any subject. Most of them are way to limited by their own perspective, so they can´t understand the big picture. Did you ever question the most acknowledged beliefs in pop-biology? A lot of them are way to partial and limited and don´t have a lot of value.

@Preety_India Would you have acted differently if you would have been born in Hitlers shoes? What about children who get born into Taliban-Environment and then become suicide-bombers? Are they sick and evil?

Dr. Fauci sounds like the American version of (Dr.) Drosten here in Germany

Well in my opinion someone is very conscious if he´s able to take on a lot of different perspectives. Not being stuck in his own ego. The fact how I call myself on this forum, says absolutely nothing about me, or who I call conscious. "Bad Hippie" is a nick-name my girlfriend called me when we started dating. I kinda liked the ring to it, so I went with it.

@Stovo So anyone who´s against Lockdowns is automatically orange? I don´t think so, I would say I am pretty green/yellowish (sure I have probably have some orange aspects I still need to integrate). It depends on why you are against lockdowns. There is a lot of scientific evidence, saying Lockdowns hurt a society more than it does good. We can also see this in countries with no lockdown like Sweden, as compared to Austria or Germany. Same with Internet Censorship. There is a lot of good stuff getting taken down because it contradicts what the WHO says, which I don´t think is good. I know some Doctors who got censored personally and they have compelling evidence for what they are saying. This doesn´t mean I am against Internet Censorship in general, but I don´t think it´s unproblematic how it´s currently done. Because who decides what´s true and what´s false information? We would need an absolutely uncorrupted way of checking information for truth in order for censorship to work fairly.

@snowyowl Yes, we have. Sadly they don't teach most of the relevant stuff in school, so a lot of Germans don't know these "facts".

People in Germany are already talking about taking 3 vaccine shots yearly - because the virus (obviously) mutates. Personally I don´t feel like vaccinating myself. I´ve been healthy almost all of my life without any vaccination. They are probably a good thing for old people, but completely unnecessary for younger people, in the case of COVID. Yet they are trying to push mandatory vaccines for everyone. I don´t see how that´s not fishing for more profit? I agree. I most don´t use these terms. I just wanted to make a point. As you make it seem like all "conspiracy theorists" only have stupid reasons for what they believe when it reality it´s super nuanced. Sounds like Rule Omega to me. If you heard about it. Don´t you also have a pre-conceived agenda when you say that germs do exist? Did you actually check for yourself? I for example believe in germs, yet I don´t think I am a 100% right. I talked to a few people who said that the whole Virus-theory gets misinterpreted and they were even able to show me evidence (that was quite compelling, still not sure about it) for that. This doesn´t mean that there aren´t any germs though, just that I have to synthesize both perspectives to a higher one.

@Forestluv I agree that Germany probably is relatively more advanced than America. I´ve never been to America so I can´t say for sure though. Sure we understood Hitler was "bad". But we never understood collectively why Naziism happened, and now fascism is on the rise again here and people don´t even realize.

@Forestluv Yeah there is actually work we have to do to understand reality. We have to do our own sensemaking to understand reality, otherwise we are simply believing stuff without actually checking. And believe it or not everyone I know, who gets labelled as a conspiracy theorists, actually has very good reasons to believe what they believe. I talk to them and try to understand where they come from. Most people who go to demonstrations here in Germany (at least the ones I talked to) have a pretty good sensemaking. How about trying to understand where they come from - if it´s not completely crazy, like the narrative you described - instead of vilifying them and assume they did a bad job in fact-checking. There are good/bad reasons for (not) wearing a mask, there are good/bad reasons to (not) take vaccines, and so on. You make it look like there is on absolute truth, and everyone who disagrees is a crazy conspiracy theorist and believes stupid bullshit. I can talk to most "conspiracy theorists" pretty normally, they aren´t as dogmatic as you make it look. But when I try to talk to pro-lockdown, pro-mask, pro mandatory testing people it´s like you talk to a wall. They mostly don´t have any arguments beside trying to vilify me by saying I don´t care about the deaths. I actually do care about the deaths, I just try to see the bigger picture and the lockdown look like they hurt our country a lot more than a lot of other ways to deal with the virus.

@Forestluv The problem with Germany is that they didn´t overcome the past in any meaningful way. Sure globally they think we are a parade example, but that´s just how it looks on the outside. It was more like we faked that we overcome the past, otherwise it wouldn´t be possible what currently happens in Germany. Dushan Wegner wrote something like: "The Germany are behaving like someone who got hit by a brown truck, while crossing the street with a red traffic light, and now is fighting against everything that is brown - instead of fighting for the general compliance with the traffic regulations." We drew the completely wrong conclusions from Naziism, I think. Most Germans either think Hitler won by seducing the people to the "evil" side, or that the majority of people suddenly decided to become "evil". I don´t like either of these explanations, if you look at it psychologically you will probably think so too. A lot of people even believe that the majority of the 60 Million Germans felt freed on the 8th of May 1945, the day of the liberation. If people actually understood that "evil" always comes in the robe of the good, we wouldn´t have this extreme rise of fascism that can currently be seen in Germany on almost all the Newspapers and the public-TV. There is an agitation going on against everyone who disagrees with the current politics, that is making me sick just watching it. 100 000 people or more demonstrating, I´ve been there, and the people get vilified as Nazis, even though I didn´t even see a single one on the whole demonstration. I´m sure there were some (it´s impossible to have this big of a demonstration without there being someone from almost any group), but definitely in a minority. If you read German Newspaper, it´s disgusting how they frame stuff. Like last week I read an article and they wrote: On the demonstration there were right-wing people and people who demonstrated with right-wing people. That´s just bad framing, but sadly it works on the majority of people in Germany. I could say the same phrase with left-wing and it would still be true. Or check out the way experts get publicly killed for saying what they believe. There is no discussion, they just get instantly labelled as right-wing, conspiracy-theorists etc. etc. etc. Crazy times here in Germany.

There may be less racism, but there is a lot more fascism currently going on. At least that´s my own experience living in Germany. Of course that depends on how we define fascism. About sensemaking, I think Daniel Schmachtenberger did a great job of conveying how it works.

@vladorion I agree, it´s disgusting how they use our highest values like solidarity in a way that´s completely lacking. A year ago I would have also said I am more left. Now I simply stopped trying to put people into these labels. The political left here in Germany has become so fascist, that it really is hard for me to live authentically here. I get ridicules and vilifies for living true to myself. The problem is people can use labels (conspiracy theorist, right-wing, brainwashed, trump-supporter, anti-vaxxer, etc.) to vilify someone, then they don´t have to listen to them anymore. Which makes discussions impossible. But we need discussions and different opinions to actually grow.