something_else

That’s quite interesting, and actually quite different from approach anxiety. I don’t think you can make that anxiety go away by doing lots of short approaches, you really need experience talking to girls for a longer period of time and learning how to hold a convo with them to make this go away. 100 one to five minute approaches won’t solve it

Ironic

If you’re really socially stunted even alcohol won’t help. If you just struggle with confidence and a stick up your ass then alcohol will solve that problem real fast. But obviously it comes with other costs.

You can, it’s called alcohol. Lol.

This is one of the reasons why I don’t find her inconsistent account afterwards that strange. She consented to a threesome when she was already pretty drunk but probably still mostly with it at least, and then it escalated way beyond what she was comfortable with and what she consented to. They give her ket, weed, more alcohol and suddenly she’s phasing in and out of consciousness and there are 7 guys around her. An inconsistent account after that is what you would expect. Substance and alcohol use probably left her with very fuzzy and disjointed memories of what happened later into the night, but substantially clearer memories of the initial consensual encounter where she was less intoxicated. The mind can easily rationalise that into “I consented to all of it” or “I was just drunk and stupid” before taking time to process what really happened.

I do really think you deserve a ton of respect for your commitment to doing something hard like this. I really do. But I think it’s time to change up your strat and focus on quality over quantity. Set your goal to be “get ten phone numbers / socials in a night” rather than doing 100 low quality approaches. It’s clear you can approach, but something fundamental is going wrong with the quality of the approach if after talking to this many girls you’ve not even managed to get a date. Pickup is highly analogous to online advertising. If you put an ad up online and 10,000 people saw it but only 10 people clicked it and zero people bought the product, what do you do? Keep running the same ad til 100,000 people have seen it? No, you’d start tweaking levers like the quality of the ad, target audience, quality of the website, and quality of the product. Matching those last 4 levers to pickup equivalents: you’d improve the quality of the approach, where and who you’re approaching, texting/date skills, and your own style/appearance/value.

Yea, pretty much. And throw in growing up in a time where it was slightly more acceptable for men to behave that way, plus less overall awareness of manosphere content. All of that together can mean it’s less of a visceral reaction than it would be for a girl in her twenties now.

You said you were looking for a young and “moldable” girl.

India is a chaotic mess in most of the big cities, personally I love the hustle and bustle but it’s not for everyone. However once you go to places outside of the cities towards the Himalayas like Rishikesh, the birthplace of Yoga, it’s an entirely different vibe. Nepal has the chaos in cities to a lesser degree, but Pokhara is a pretty chill city and is surrounded by yoga retreats. The city is filled with spiritual girls too. There’s an element of group thinking there but there’s nowhere in the world where that’s inescapable. Better to be somewhere that the conformity is at least spiritual and aligns with you more.

The reason the girls you like don’t like you is pretty apparent from the traits consistently visible in almost all of your posts. The combination of mildly controlling, general disrespect towards women, enforcing double standards, and bitterness about dating are all traits most 20-something girls find really unattractive. Throw manosphere content consumer in there and you’re hitting like 5 of the most common red flags for girls in that age range.

Go to Nepal, or Northern India. Especially to a yoga retreat. I met sooo many spiritual girls travelling there from all over the world to get a yoga teaching certificate. This commitment automatically selects for the people who are seriously spiritual and not just superficially so. Also, many of the women I met were in their 30s but looked like they were in their early twenties. And very open and fun with their sexuality. It sounds like that’s basically exactly the type of woman you’re looking for, and if I had your goal that’s exactly where I’d go. And you are probably exactly what they’d consider their type as well. Hot, spiritual, deep, social, and a dancer

I’m sure there are some strong candidates in this video

There''s literally a disease called Coeliac which makes you violently ill if you eat even a tiny bit of gluten.

How long is your typical interaction with a girl after you start talking to her? What does it typically go like? Who typically ends it, you or her?

It’s really messy. Definitely not abundantly clear what happened yet. But I’ll give my interpretation of what I’ve seen. From the evidence, it looks like she willingly consented to a threesome with one guy she trusted and his friend, but the situation quickly escalated beyond what she was comfortable with. Exactly what happened from there onwards is less clear, but it’s pretty apparent that at least several more men got involved and that she consumed significant amounts of ketamine, weed, and alcohol that night. I’ve seen multiple times what the combination of a lot of alcohol + ketamine does to people, let alone weed on top of that. You are not a remotely functional human after that and it is very apparent from the outside. At this point, every guy that saw her would be able to tell that she was in no state to consent. Let alone consent to group sex. Even if she said yes to more men joining, which it is disputed if she did or not, at this point I think there is little excuse for the guys continuing. Yet at this point one of the guys instead advertises “free pussy upstairs” to 50 frat dudes, which prompts even more men to join. By this point you have one drunk, high girl on her own with up to 7 random men surrounding her. Expecting her actions to be rational both during this encounter and after is unfair. Bearing this in mind I think is a plausible explanation for her inconsistent recounts afterwards. That’s what you would expect. Substance and alcohol use probably left her with very fuzzy and disjointed memories of what happened later into the night, but substantially clearer memories of the initial consensual encounter where she was less intoxicated. The mind can easily rationalise that into “I consented to all of it” before taking time to process what really happened. Two personal experiences also play into my interpretation of this last bit too. Firstly, I’ve met multiple women who have been spiked and essentially just shrugged it off afterwards or even laughed about it. Said it wasn’t that bad, or it wasn’t that big of a deal. Or they question themselves about how much they had to drink. One of them was even raped after being spiked and she told me this story like it was a joke while laughing, but you could tell it was like she was laughing through the pain. Trauma like this can do strange things to your mind. Defence mechanisms are powerful. Secondly, my closest friend went to Harvard and I have heard SO many stories from him about frat/club guys. Spiking girls or getting them drunk enough to take advantage is considered acceptable, or even encouraged, behaviour in many frat houses. The “free pussy” message and responses to it do strongly suggest this was one of those frat houses. Putting all of this together I just struggle to see how most of the 7 men involved are innocent of any crimes. Even if they did not directly participate they were aware what was happening and did nothing. That isn’t a crime, but it’s still extremely unethical. I keep an open mind though, and I’m interested to see what other evidence comes out. But at this stage it certainly feels like this went well beyond what could be classified as irresponsible behaviour.

Out of sheer curiosity, what was her reasoning for how anyone could easily make money?

Great points . I didn't really actively think about ways to make my last girlfriend's life better most of the time, the opportunities just arose naturally and I took them. Probably the most excited I've ever seen her was after she told me somebody ate her fruit pastels at work. Before she got home I went out the shop and bought her two more packs and gave them to her when she got home. Like 5 minutes of my time, £3 spent, and I'd never seen her look so happy. The other thing she got super excited about was when I'd bring her back cool rocks from a hike. 2 seconds of my time, £0 spent. Really simple, small gestures that show you're thinking about the other person make the world of difference in a relationship. Often more difference than the bigger gestures.

I’m meeting more girls through dating apps than ever before. Though I heavily support the idea of meeting people IRL. It should be the primary way you date and meet people. However if you can make apps work for you, they’re great to have running in the background. Time spent building an excellent profile pays dividends for years with little effort on your part. There are three things I don’t like about them though. Firstly, they get repetitive. Same conversations over and over and over which can give you a kind of burnout feeling. Secondly, these companies are pretty sketch, and I think they should be regulated quite heavily given how influential they are. They’re almost certainly up to some automated fucky shit to get people to pay. For example, my tinder gold membership expired last week for example and now miraculously I got more likes in 1 week (that I can’t see) than I did in 3 weeks prior with gold, and there are ads teasing me about gold unlocking them every time I open the app. I’ve had similar experiences before as well where I feel like I’m being manipulated by a dating algorithm crafted to keep my attention and extract money. Thirdly, I fucking hate how they handle bans. My hinge account got banned while I was travelling. I hadn’t even talked to anyone on the app in a week when it happened. Permanent. No reason given. No option to appeal. Comprehensive fingerprinting which immediately detects matching face, photos, phone IMEI, phone number, IP, email, Apple/Google account, so creating a new account is near enough impossible without significant measures.

It's one of those things you think and do, but don't necessarily say out loud. It's a bit cringe because it could be a lie just to make himself look better. It breaks the show don't tell rule.

@oOo I think we’re talking past each other on the level of claim being made. I’ll grant you two things. The examples I pulled don’t establish that this behaviour is currently widespread on the forum, and using ChatGPT to find them means I should have checked the surrounding thread context beyond the single comment. If my claim were “this is a pervasive problem in this forum in the year 2026,” then yes, I’d need much better and more recent evidence. But that isn’t the claim I’m defending. I’m saying that developmental hierarchies like SD can be used as a vehicle for ego/status inflation, and that this can sometimes be reasonably inferred from the language of an individual post without establishing a stable personality trait. You yourself seem to concede that with the “talking to Yellow and below is like talking to children” example. Once we agree that this is a clear instance, then the question of whether the phenomenon exists is basically settled. What remains open is how common it is. I also think your demand for repeated behaviour/predictive reliability makes sense if I were claiming “this person is an arrogant/narcissistic person” or diagnosing some enduring ego structure. But that’s different from saying “this particular statement is self-elevating/status-signalling.” Context can absolutely overturn that interpretation, but then the relevant response would be to show how the surrounding context changes the meaning of the statement. Not to require a longitudinal psychological profile before we can make any interpretation at all.

You could def pull this off in a way that women find attractive. Doesn’t sound like he did, but it’s def possible.

Uhm. I hate to break it to you, but this really isn't a well designed website. It's incredibly overwhelming, too bright, too much going on, no consistency among UI components, no hierarchy among UI elements. It's not immediately apparent what is going on at all.

@oOo The shift is pretty straightforward. Initially you claimed no one had provided a single example who would satisfy the criticism. Once examples were provided, the standard became repeated behaviour across time that can reliably predict future behaviour. I don’t think that standard is remotely necessary to say a given comment displays ego inflation, or that people will use a hierarchy like spiral dynamics to inflate their own ego. People are drawn to status, hierarchy and ego inflation like moths to a flame. Take the following list: ------------------ “I'm pretty sure I'm the only person on the planet who could help you with this, as no one else understands enough about spiral dynamics...” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/17011-2017-in-review-or-why-i-no-longer-need-actualizedorg/?comment=172825&do=findComment “Everything changed for me when I moved from Turquoise to Coral... When Turquoise people talk, it's not long before my mind starts screaming, Ego!” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/26536-is-enlightenment-awareness-of-awareness/?comment=300651&do=findComment “Tier2 is pretty low of a devleopment imo, it's not that hard anymore.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/86897-hurdles-of-being-sd-tier-2/?comment=1228577&do=findComment “Some people tell me I'm more turquoise than coral, but that's because those people are either green or turquoise themselves...” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/29944-typology-discussions/?comment=364548&do=findComment “You sound Green. Wait till ur Turquoise, Coral, or Teal.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/47437-spiral-dynamics-turquoise-blue-relationship-and-interaction/?comment=602241&do=findComment “Perhaps your dogma and ideology is blinding you? I'm stage yellow and I have transcended that stuff.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/62455-what-do-you-guys-think-about-this-vegan-timelapse-video/?comment=855147&do=findComment “Everybody is blue or orange, while I am green and yellow.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/4266-finding-yellow-friends-a-yellow-job-yellow-resources/?comment=37602&do=findComment “So our communication and things we do together is mostly me helping him grow to my level.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/47437-spiral-dynamics-turquoise-blue-relationship-and-interaction/?comment=600883&do=findComment “I have this problem of communicating with people below my stage... I don't know if I should even talk to them at all...” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/45910-how-to-communicate-with-people-below-or-above-the-spiral/?comment=577373&do=findComment “Clearly he's coming at it from a tier 2 yellow perspective... you're coming at it yourself through a stage green pseudo intellectual perspective.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/111754-tier-2-debates-tier-1-bryan-johnson-on-jubilee/?comment=1703992&do=findComment “Talking to yellow and below is like talking to children.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/74536-i-bet-game-is-broken-at-stage-coral/?comment=1028203&do=findComment “I consider myself stage yellow, going to turquoise, so you can imagine that women that are stage orange and bellow don't interest me at all.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/54879-lack-of-attraction-related-to-spiritual-work/?comment=724731&do=findComment “Girls tend not to be high conscious anyway in SD yellow way which is my development level.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/90680-i’m-not-attracted-to-females-of-my-own-age/?comment=1287297&do=findComment “Personally I identify best with stage yellow... only people in Tier 2 would be able to really understand it.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7495-spiral-dynamics-yellow-to-turquoise/?comment=157163&do=findComment “I am a stage yellow muslim... If u are honest and innocent and study self improvement for 10 years, u will go back to islam.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/88267-leo-gura’s-false-assessment-about-muhammad/?comment=1249849&do=findComment “as yellow, I don't think beliefs can be ‘right’, only ‘effective and ineffective’... Maybe none of you see this yet perhaps.” https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/34741-the-loneliness-of-yellow-spiral-thinking/?comment=421726&do=findComment ------------------ In all of these examples, people are using their self-assigned Spiral Dynamics stage to elevate themselves over others, dismiss people beneath them, or give their own perspective additional status. You can call that an interpretation rather than a fact, but if none of these qualify as examples of the behaviour being discussed, I'm not sure what possibly could. More importantly, my argument technically only requires one example. “Some people use hierarchical developmental models to inflate their ego or claim status” is an existential claim, not a claim about prevalence. One genuine case establishes that it happens. That's really all I'm arguing. I'm not making some grand claim about this forum specifically. I'm saying people will turn hierarchical systems like Spiral Dynamics into status games because that's a very ordinary human tendency. This forum just happens to provide a convenient dataset because people talk about Spiral Dynamics constantly.

Nice just isn't really a distinctive personality trait. If the best someone can say about you is that you're "nice" then it means you are likely quite boring. Kindness is attractive, especially if coming from a place of strength where you choose to be kind.

Yes, shame and guilt are stage blue values brought about to tame stage red’s wildness. Some degree of shame and guilt is healthy in that regard, but the higher stages find better ways to tame that energy like education and opportunity. What happens with anti-porn and no-fap is an extreme amount of shame built up around something fairly natural and harmless in moderation. This is not healthy. I agree with LordFall that if you’ve got drive, goals and at least some success in your life, porn and jerking off is pretty inconsequential. If cumming to a porn star’s asshole is frequently the highlight of your day then yea, probably a bit of shame and guilt may help you move towards better values.