Jiri Kuokkanen

As far as I understand, many here believe that consciousness / I-am-ness was before we were born and will be after we die. I wonder how that would be the case. It seems viable to me that I was not conscious before I was born and I won't be after I die. At least I don't remember being conscious before I was born. I am not sure what is left of consciousness without perception and I am not sure if there's anything to perceive after death. But, I guess there's no way to know for sure how the truth about this is. It is philosophy and we can only try to imagine.

Thanks for so many answer, I'm afraid I can't answer everything thoroughly. If I'm missing something important, notify me or something. I try to react to some of the statements above. I can see that I-am-ness seems unchanging in my life experience. I'm still not sure if that holds true after I die or was it true before I was born. But I guess that is a plausible option, even though I doubt we can know for sure. Yes, what I have stated before in this thread can be interpreted that I don't know for sure that I don't know for sure. I don't quite dare to say that I would be sure about knowing that there would be no way to figure out what happens to consciousness after I die. But still find it highly questionable, because I have no clue what such method is that I could derive this kind of truth from and know it holds true. Why I talk about this, if I think I'm never able to know the answer? I was just interested why most of you have come to this conclusion. Maybe I'd find some kind of explanation that would change my mind. But I guess it is just too big of a gap in paradigms between my "stage orange" thinking and people in this forum. I've never quite caught the concept of knowing something without rationalizing. Have I experienced being unconscious? Hmm.. I'd say yes, at least in the "practical" sense. I don't remember anything from how it felt, so maybe it either didn't really feel like anything much or then I just don't remember what I felt.

Yeah, well, I agree on the last paragraph. Other than that I don't know why it would be more probable that death is a realization of false identification, than an end to ones consciousness. And I doubt I can ever know, at least during my life. But maybe I'm just wrong.

Is consciousness conscious about many viewpoints at the same time? I am conscious and you are conscious, but I am not conscious about your thoughts and you are not conscious about my thoughts. So is consciousness something other than us because it is conscious about both of our perceptions at the same time? I can't do that at least. Or maybe I just misinterpret what you tried to say.

I'm not sure if my interpretation is correct, but basically you mean that someone who had near death experience had perceived themselves in some other form than human? First explanation that came to my mind is that they might just been dreaming about that or such. But sure it is odd if the same environment was seen by many in that sort of state. Anyways, I suppose you mean that you believe that after death, we will just perceive some other reality and this keeps on repeating. I'm not sure why this would be more probable than not being conscious after death, I guess both are a possibility.

I like the saying "there aren't free lunches in the dating game". Monogamy might sound ideal and virtuous, but many of them end in vain, mostly because it is somewhat unnatural to be limited to one partner sexually. In the beginning of a relationship, the novelty makes us fall in love, but once the novelty is gone and you know the other person including their boringness and downsides, the mind might do tricks and suddenly you crush on someone new. However, on the other hand, I do find it very admirable when a married couple makes the commitment to stay together, no matter if there's problems like I tried to describe. Someone could call that "endurance" true love. But is that the ideal way to live, I guess it depends. Maybe if you find someone who is worthy of such commitment. More casual style of relationships or recycling partners to get a new rush of excitement might be an alternative option that leads to different kind of happiness and sadness. Maybe one won't feel very grounded if there's nothing that lasts long and one might feel lack of purpose because of the shallowness of changing partners constantly. I didn't even get started with all ideas I have about the topic, but anyways, thanks for the interesting topic.

I think "orange" advice is great for its purpose. Having some practicals routines, work-ethic and sustainable finances (for example) don't really hurt anyone. That's not all there is into life, but it's still essential stuff for having one's life in order. So, I'd say, yes, follow the advice that you find helpful by trying it out .

I feel that there is no reason of why reality is the way it is. Maybe there's doesn't have to be a reason for everything. In my opinion, the seeming randomness makes life even more fascinating. Like, what is the probability of life forming in the universe, when looking from the beginning. And what is the probability of conscious life forming in the universe. And humans? And then, what is the probability that my parents met each other? All of this seems pretty random and I guess I should be more thankful to even get to experience all of this. So I guess, the reality is the way it is, because of some random chain of events that in some bizarre way resulted to this, without design. Not sure if this was as deep of an answer that you were expecting, but here's just some of my thoughts.