zazen

Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love with a capital L is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek. Transaction is the nature of life, right now oxygen is being transacted between your lungs and the trees. The question is of depth. The prostitute and the male client are transacting at a superficial level. The man gives his money, the women just gives her body, but nothing more of themselves is shared. In a relationship, the body, heart/emotion, and energy are shared beyond just resources and the physical. The woman gives of her feminine essence, the male of his masculine essence. Only life/love/god is unconditional love, on the level of form we are bound by the physical, the finite, and with that condition.

Yes, its all about incentives. There is instinct, intelligence and the incentives that interact with the two. In big cities as urbanisation increases, our animal instincts are in over drive, especially mating instincts. Sex and the city isn't just a series but a real phenomena. Our hind brain keeps second guessing our partner in todays modern environment and won't allow us to rest as there's always the better option out there in the city, its a constant tease. Internet and in particular social media now has also given us access to unlimited potential mates. A girl living in rural america can get dm'd by a top tier man in New York / Miami / La and be flown out. Our instinct is to gorge food, and have sex / reproduce ad naseum. But we temper that with our intelligence. Rite now the reason for obesity and unstable relationships / hook up culture is due to our environment incentivising our instincts at a heightened level, which is a test for our intelligence and level of conscious control on ourselves. Fundamentally, our primal instinct, conscious intelligence, and modern environment are at war.

@Gesundheit2 That song is a vibe, only real tings round here Much love.

Emerald, see my reply to javfly33: '' Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek. '' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You say its nuance and it is, but part of that nuance is recognising the physical level of existence where we have a bio and neuro chemistry. Thats what Leo and spiral dynamics all eludes to, we have different modes of reality. You can't discount the physical level of things, its all integrated. Its not either or, but both and. A holistic perspective includes the material and the spiritual. The blind side of materialists is they exalt only our animal nature (and the cruel darwinian zero sum game aspect of it only) BUT the blind side of so called spiritualists is they exalt only our divine nature and deny the animal nature (as its cold and hurts our sense of morality on some level) and think all is just lovey dovey. The fact these truths sting a little is good, it shows sensitivity and that we are human and attuned to something higher in us that wishes to move away from that animal instinct, and to move towards intelligent living. Neither approach allows for total understanding and human flourishing. True Spirituality includes both and see's both. The level of the form and level of the formless. So called spiritualists (who deny the material) are so caught up in what reality should/could be they never consider what it really is physically. The materialists are so caught up in only what the physical reality is they never consider it could be more.

Your proving the point. Hypergamy is in all women, not just gold diggers. Women have STANDARDS and thank god for that. Women set standards for men must meet in order to procreate, thats what got us where we are today. Children are costly to raise in time and resources and women had to ensure the survival of their offspring with the most secure strong mate they could. If women didn't have standards and mated with anybody we would still be in caves. Strength and status come in differing forms, physical strength ensures protection on a physical level, mental shows you have intellect to manoeuvre reality and get creative to survive, emotional strength indicates your able to survive through hard times and if you have good emotion it signals you must have abundance, social strength and ties shows you can survive as you have people who will take care of you, and lastly spiritual strength and having magnetism make all humans feel alive spiritually themselves which they all want to bask in. Gold diggers are just looking for one kind of strength which is resources at the exclusion of all else in the man. You say '' if you make six figures and have a girlfriend, chances are she will not leave you for another guy with similar or higher stats, unless you lose those privileges.'' Yes, once a woman has consolidated on the best mate she can and they aren't any higher options out there and is emotionally invested in you its unlikely she will leave, ESPECIALLY if she doesn't have ACCESS to that better male or she thinks she can't get them. In todays world we have ACCESS all the time with the internet, even more with social media, and the illusion a lot can succumb to is they CAN get them because in the past they maybe slept with such a men/dated or those men even slide in their dm's , like their pictures on Instagram if its public, or they get in the presence of such men in their occupation. The monkey brain keeps second guessing in todays modern environment and won't allow us to rest, there's always the better option out there and our instinct is on over drive. It takes a lot of consciousness today to live through intelligence than instinct and to have healthy long lasting relationships, for the environment isn't as conducive for it. There is plenty of nuance in all of this. We also have sunken cost affect, which is once we have emotionally invested in something we don't want to give it up, even if there is something better out there, we cherish what we have built rather than the shiny new object we have no history with. We also don't want to lose the respect of the family or community in the past when it was looked down upon to divorce and branch swing. But biology can still get the best of us and plenty people still jump to the new better deal as their relationships become stale and its more morally accepted (not shamed like in the past) in the modern day.

Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek.

All depends on the place that artist is coming from. Some do it from lack, others from an expression of completeness. This forum and all of Leo's work is his art, his offering to us but I doubt it comes from a place of lack, more from a place of sharing and celebration. Freud studied sick people for the most part and thus his bias on human psychology and his view was that of the negative. Everything man does can only be for ego and is always sex related. In the east the enlightened ones were looked upon as they graced those lands, the positive psychology, healthy beings which formed the Easts basis of what humans are capable of, that they don't just do because of lack. They behave, but they have Being also. Freud's analysis was that humans behave in order to have things that feed the ego and that is true, but we can also behave out of fullness of our Being.

Not in the way humans are. This is making a mountain of a molehill lol. I hope the quality of this thread won't be diluted to nit pick at every word and line. See the bigger picture, the nuance. Love.

Nice tone man, very inviting and pleasant. I never said they don't but see how it could come across to you that way. I said animals just live, and man lives but is conscious of his existence. Thats the difference. Animals feel emotion too, and if they evolved modes of expression like us they would surely also create music art poetry etc.

Yes, in the past men and women were paired off by force / arranged marriage. And more recently not by force but by mingling with each other, but it was done within smaller communities where their options were limited, and where women still relied on men for their livelihood so the incentive was there to pair off with a mate for security. Now women have security of their own ( the government and personal income ) more freedom which is great. The government loves it as it increases the tax base, the corporations love it for their stocks. But, women are attracted (by the mechanism of hypergamy) to stronger than themselves, it is hardwired. Which is why most women always want a man taller than themselves, they feel protected on a visceral level, although in the modern day they have no fear as we live in a safe environment, the base line experience of women is fear due to her biology and to seek out security. We must have empathy for them. As women can earn at the same level of more than men , the view men at their level or below as inferior in status or weaker, and therefore not a good mating choice. This is all subconscious of course. And so they don't parter up as easily because their standards are higher and not enough men meet those standards.

Seems you didn't enjoy the mundanity that is evolutionary biology, it can be cold. You mentioned those guys need to get out and socialise with women as human beings and feel a sense of love and nuance. What I talked about is exactly that. So what is it, stay hard and cold or the other extreme where men discard understanding of human nature and get lost in their version of love which is fantasy, and end up getting hurt and not know why by women. Or seeing life what it is, and then that beauty exists in that also. The reality of being human is we have a heart and emotion. Animals just live, human beings create music art and poetry. Something higher in us is alive, it is also alive in animals rocks plants but ever more in us.

@Emerald So we can't see the beauty of this existence? How should one look at the world, what makes us human? It seems not being able to see beauty in this creation is robotic just as much as the red pilled bro - science you said is robotic. Society has pedestalised sex, we are over saturated with it. We are over sexed and undersexed at the same time, and we all suffer from it. Men, in the way that they feel if it is valued to that height they must have it and when they don't they are in pain, and waste their lives away picking up. Women, to the caricature of women that is portrayed and the unrealistic standard put forth, and so girls mental health is sky rocketed since the advent of social media. All because sex sells, sells to our lowest animal drive which exists in us. Women pedestalised sex in the name of freedom, men in the name of a free show for the lowest part of themselves to enjoy it seems. Beauty and hotness differ. What is pedestalised is only hotness but women all have beauty and that is beyond the flesh. That beauty in women possess a complexity, a depth, a nuanced grace, that men can't put a finger on but feel. We can't put that wordless wonder into words. And so with man. The beauty of man is his devotion to a personal passion, a passion larger than himself and that includes her and this worlds well being. Hence why women love starving artists, musicians, dreamers and iconclasts. That sets them apart, just as a certain beauty in woman sets her apart from men. Beauty needs a witness, god wants a witness. We are that witness, we witness the beauty in each other, and let each other know I see you, I am here. Namaste.

These are not my words but from else where, found it interesting. I agree stage green and free love is where we are headed but isn't that a far off dream.. They somewhat tried it in the 70's with the free love movement and here we are today. Peoples consciousness hasn't evolved to that level and it takes a lot of time for our biological evolution to catch up to our cultural evolution. Biology is slow, culture is fast. Our biology will fight us, mens biology will fight us to mate with women bigger, much older than us, less fertile. Women's biology will fight them to not mate with weaker, smaller men who aren't confident or spiritually alive and strong either.

Thats okay, you said why spread nonsense but didn't think I was. Also get the impression you think I'm a red piller who has negative view on women but thats maybe just me projecting. That girl is one example, even girls who are on the surface religious have acted in ways which would shock. I have also come across high integrity women also who of course didn't. It is human nature, but we have two human natures, one of a lower and one of a higher self which I commented on earlier ''we live between the two worlds, the world of the beast (our animal/darwinian nature) and that of the Bhudda, our higher nature to which we are all evolving towards. We are life incarnate (carnal - from flesh) in form and thats exactly the point, we are in flesh also. Man is animal, but animal is not all that he is '' that is what this is all about. We have the possibility in all of us for these behaviour we deem 'bad' which is just the animal in us acting out, its in me and all of us on this forum. But we have conscious and moral agency to not act on our animal instinct. The trigger is there, do we pull that trigger or allow the environment to pull that trigger is the question. Move from compulsion to consciousness, from instinct to intelligence. I see human nature what it is, and also see it for what it could be when lived from a higher plane. And they are both beautiful. I absolutely love women and love love. They say men created the world, but women created the very life that created that very world. In fact maybe man has felt inferior to women over the eons for she created the highest form, life itself. When a loving couple looks each other in the eyes, the higher self, the spirit behind the eye calls the spirit in the other eye, higher to itself, to a higher place. Woman is one of the greatest manifestations of beauty on this planet, her curves the greatest creation of god, her smile the greatest inspiration ( put in spirit ). Beauty of women physical and non physical invokes man to something higher. I don't think thats a distorted view

Fantastic insights! I didn't see it that way. Living in a bit city (London) I come across many people of all walks of life on a daily basis, and get into discussions with a lot of men. I see it anecdotally not just on statistics, and the last thing men would be comfortable sharing is their lack of sex as it hits their pride a bit. Of course its not all doom and gloom and there are other reasons for lack of sex, being porn, entertainment, other means of pleasure ( just look at the society of Japan ).

No need for ad hominem, talk about the points rather than the person. Surprised that's all you got from my posts. Maybe its not false hood but based in reality? I have a great dating life, in fact I'v come across women who I found out later were cheating with me on their boyfriends and this lead to me to want to find out why. I actually took a break from dating to understand better cause and affect and why I was experiencing the things I was. I went from action to abstraction. I have friends who get plenty of women and a lot of others who struggle, I see it all around. It's not all cold statistics but anecdotal. What murders men confidence and self esteem is when they go out and get shut down continuously. What boosts it is learning the nature of things, and realising they can do something about it. If human nature is un appealing I understand, but without this mechanism for women to select for strength, men and civilisation wouldn't be where it is today. I see beauty in it, a design of god, and thats what I like to illuminate to any men who would feel bitter about it. Men may be the head of the household, but women are the neck that turn that head. It is for women that men became something, and society became something. The water (feminine) eventually shapes the rock formations (masculine) over time. Glad to have found this forum with people on this journey of actualisation. Love you all.

Keep it up brother. The voice note thing flowbow mentioned sounds awesome, def a way to stand out. A lot of people don't like hearing their own voice lol.

Yes, these guys would be better suited to getting out in the real world and taking action. Too much abstraction and not enough action is an issue amongst these men, doubley so during lockdowns and being stuck at home, but it doesn't invalidate the principles. In the world of form there is hierarchy, of course in Love with a capital L there isn't. But we live between the two worlds, the world of the beast (our animal/darwinian nature) and that of the Bhudda, our higher nature to which we are all evolving towards. We are life incarnate (carnal - from flesh) in form and thats exactly the point, we are in flesh also. Man is animal, but animal is not all that he is. We are living within that physical realm and by certain physical laws. Its un appealing to us because our higher nature see's life otherwise and to what life could be, and us on the forum more so as we are more attuned to that higher nature, but this forum also only makes up say less than a percent of society so we can have certain bias towards the majority and just think 'oh these people, why can they just be loving'. I get it. Truth can be bitter in the beginning and sweet in the end as it leads to understanding, which leads to compassion for fellow men and women. Lies can be sweet in the beginning (as they comfort) and bitter in the end when life comes knocking down on those delusions. This understanding can save a lot of people from the heartache of going through life and being hurt one after the next.

How is accepting the truth of evolutionary biology a mirage ? It is true but whats also true is these men need to take responsibility and grow. They just need some guidance what to grow towards and to understand why their failing in the first place. Definitely a healthy man who is stronger physically, emotionally, mentally, socially and spiritually can find a attractive mate but that is what is lacking today due to various reasons ( screens, lack of socialisation, poor health from poor diet/lifestyle which fuels a strong sense of well being besides the physical, growing up in single mother households and then being brought up in the education system which is mostly female teachers so these boys never had a strong male role model to learn how to be a man from, economic difficulty leading to living at home with parents making it harder to date even). And now the mens movement thats popping up is telling men to better themselves, although a lot in its negative form ie to fuck lots of bitches, these girls aren't loyal etc. The divorce laws also have hurt a lot of men from the older generation and todays boys are seeing what their fathers have gone through and no longer want to opt in for marriage, can get a negative. Doesn't the lack of strong men today suggest the problem does exist in reality and that takes the form of what we are seeing now as incels, red pill culture, virginity rates for men (not so much women) increasing. Maybe they always existed but now we just know about it due to the internet, but the stats are showing otherwise. The fact that male virginity increases 3 times to 30% since 2008/2010 when social media came about ( read: women had easier access to higher quality males like never before leaving the average males behind - hypergamy ) but women's virginity only so slightly increased, meaning those top men are having more and more access to the same pool of women and those women are gravitating to such men shows what happening in real time. Even studies done on dating apps show that women only rate the top 10-20% as dateable, whereas for guys they see majority of the women as dateable. Of course, if these women just met these guys in person these men would be able to exhibit other characteristics in person as so much is lost online and women in general are attracted to non physical attributes more so which the online world cuts them off from (voice, eye contact, body language, vibe etc). But life has moved online which further skews the dating scene to the superficial.

You provide them with a sense of security, that you will be there for them after having slept. As in, your not there just for their body so they feel 'seen' more deeply. Of course, their biology will also respond to your if you display a character of strength which is sexy. And by strength that doesn't mean physically but also emotionally mentally spiritually. If your all sexy and strong women will be wary because they fear being left after the act. They seek that strength over a long time, they wish to secure strength one could say. They all go for strength in the hopes of securing it, but a lot of these alpha males don't settle themselves unfortunately, and it ends up embittering women's view on men when its just on a subset of men and not all men.

Nope. Just seeking truth. Had this same post in the dating thread but thought it would be better here to see in particular the societal affects.

Great share. Men have to become stronger on all levels : Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. To actualise we must act after all.

Use text for logistics, rather than back and forth conversation (keep that for in person). If your doing something already thats great, draw her into your world, it shows you have a life besides her. That way whether she joins or not its not a rejection to you, your already doing something fun and just invited her to join on the adventure, her loss. If setting up one one one, ask her plans for the week. See when she's free and better to make a statement rather than question. Instead of asking would you like to do x on y day, make a statement ie cool lets grab a drink at this place at 7 on x. Comes across more confident. Also, if you ask lets do something Friday evening and she's genuinely busy and declines, then you ask okay lets do something Sunday im also free then and she's also busy then and decline it sets a bad tone and precedent for the relationship / comes across like she's rejecting you. All subconscious of course. Best to just find out when she's free and plan for then.

Yes, a lot of men are getting into red pill and guys like Kevin Samuels or fresh and fit are proliferating. Obviously there must be some semblance of truth in there which is why it resonates and thats why its dangerous. The true aspects which is based in evolution and why people behave the way they do is shown, but then the way its spun is in a negative light and thats the problem. Just like what makes conspiracy theories appealing is that they have a nugget of truth, but add so much falsity to it afterwards. As technology and ubranisation increases and access to each other increases I guess it will be up to individuals to become more conscious and choose what path they go down about how they interact with the opposite sex. Will be interesting to see how society evolves, I can think of a few paths. 1. The top tier men getting all the attention turn down and by pass their biological instinct to mate with anything that moves knowing that it isn't good for society at large or spiritually fulfilling. Sometimes they get to this realisation after having already slept around a lot. This then leaves those women to put their attention to the other guys who do give them more attention. 2. Women, knowing about their hypergamous nature choose the long term mate for better emotional health and stability knowing that the top tier guy may just sleep with them and leave and is just a short term choice. Of course these top guys get good at selling the dream to these girls and lack integrity. 3. Most men learn to become stronger and evolve to embody a healthy masculinity so that theres more quality around to satisfy women's needs. 4. The men not getting any attention channel their sexuality to higher pursuits and leave a legacy not of children but of their genius. 5. All of the above or a mix of the above. P.s or everyone becomes so evolved we can all make love to each other or don't need it all together in that form (sexually) but we are very far off from that reality lol.

Love this and agree. Get better not bitter, part of that getting better involves understanding human nature