zazen

Gallant also said no Palestinian state will exist and US won’t do anything about it. The only 3 options out of the situation seems to be to give Palestinians a state, have a permanent militarily occupation with continuous death and conflict or ethnically cleanse Palestinians. The world obviously is opting for option 1 against Israel’s wishes as the others are clearly worse. US just talks of a Palestinian state but never acts upon recognising one.

@Danioover9000 I get you. It depends on forum users definition of art not falling completely into the human domain. Within the purely human domain art can be de-linked from beauty. Human art is more about expression and imagination which take a subject to create - and that art doesn’t necessarily have to be beautiful but can be social commentary or a form of protest. In Oshos book Creativity he says even a smile to a stranger passing by or sweeping the streets clean can both be seen as creative acts in the wider sense of the word - both create a better world. Similarly nature is and can be art even if it lacks intent, in the sense that it provides the aesthetic value of beauty. Human made art evokes an emotional response as does nature evoke an emotional response of some intrinsic beauty that exists. Beauty can be expressed through natural instinct or nurtured through human intention.

Regarding animals making art isn’t the key factor the existence of intent or the lack of it. Animals create beautiful things like nests but it’s from instinct - not intentionally done by a conscious agent. Animals are beautiful and seem it to us because they just are instinctually through evolutionary adaption whilst humans create beauty through intentional expression, they do beauty through art whilst animals just exist as it. Animals can mimic art by being trained in pattern recognition , but humans create art through pattern innovation.

Shame that natural life choices have become identity politics - someone not having kids becomes or is assumed to be 'anti-natalist' and someone with kids is assumed or feels the need to become 'pro-natalist'. Both try to ideologically rationalise their life choices that have been influenced by a more natural outcome of industrialisation and urbanisation. If we contemplate why so many people are opting out of having kids these days, we can boil it down to the four C's: Cost, Choice, Culture, and Courts. 1. Cost: The cost of raising a child has skyrocketed, putting it out of reach for many unless they want to live a life of constant stress trying to scrape together enough resources. Add to that the opportunity cost, where endless activities and adventures are available, often at lower costs, making the prospect of parenting even less appealing. 2. Choice: Thanks to contraception, sex is no longer inevitably tied to childbirth. Innovations like the laundry machine, industrial machines, and the internet have transformed the economy from brawn to brain-based, liberating women and multiplying the choices available. Plus, there's an overwhelming array of activities for personal enjoyment. 3. Culture: Many feel today's culture is not conducive to raising kids, seeing it as a hostile environment for nurturing new life. 4. Courts: Divorce courts are a major deterrent for men considering marriage, a traditional precursor to having children. While many couples avoid marriage, women often still see it as a priority, hoping their relationships will eventually lead to it, creating additional pressure. In essence, these factors collectively contribute to the decision to remain child-free in a world offering many alternatives. A interesting paragraph on whether to kid or not to kid : 'Is extinction something we should necessarily avoid? Yes, otherwise there's no point to anything, ever. This is supreme nihilism. By this logic there's also no value to maintaining the existence of any other species or race or state of anything in nature or anything manmade. If it is not a fundamental moral mandate that we not only exist but aught to exist then there is no mandate to do anything to preserve anything or anyone else. Furthermore, to make this choice is to invalidate the choice of everyone that's come before and force the same onto everyone that comes after. Put it this way, if you chose extinction then the people that come after you will be locked into that choice with no way to turn back, regardless of the suffering that inflicts on them. You can't unmake that choice. Being can be reversed, unbeing cannot. At the end of the day, we want to keep being and we aught to want to keep being. The fundamental crux of all life is the preservation of being.'

Good points above. In regards to US self interest this clip is enlightening: Alon Mizrahi: "Let us not forget what this day means for Israel and Israelis, because today has cataclysmic legal, political, financial, and normative implications: What this day means is that a number of important countries (with many more forecast to join them) see Israel and Israelis, soldiers and civilians alike, as illegal invaders in the sovereign state of Palestine when they are in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. This is what this really means, and this is a huge, tectonic departure from the previously acceptable diplomatic approach to the issue of Palestine. This recognition needs to be understood as a formal expression of complete and final distrust in Israel in everything relating to Palestine and Palestinians. Ireland, Norway, and Spain tell the world: Israel must no longer be treated as a party to solving or addressing Palestinian matters. This is also saying to the US: you and your approach have become not only irrelevant, but obstructive to justice. The era of playing softball with Israel, at the expense of Palestinian lives, dignity, and property, is reaching its much-delayed end. Zionist politicians can clamor and stomp their feet all they want and all day long: Israel's legitimacy and standing are being severely degraded, and there's no coming back from this. Israel will not know how to treat this, as it didn't know what to do before or after October 7. Excessive American support has made it delusional in assessing its actual powers. So I expect this process of delegitimization to intensify in years to come.'

Music is objectively subjective and subjectively objective. Music and art blend science and soul. The objective part is the science, the subjective part is the soul - both interplay. @Danioover9000 Maybe the middle way that synthesises animals and art is that nature and animals are art, but humans do art or are capable of artistry because their is conscious agency behind it. We humans observe the laws of nature and animals and see the artistry in them that consciousness has manifested, that those animals didn't manifest themselves except in minimal degree. Whereas humans co-create art with consciousness.

I get where your coming from. Padel for example supplies a lot more fun if we look at it per square inch. But golf isn't just for pure fun, it has a massive learning arc to it which takes skill and which people take joy in mastering. Golf can also provide multifaceted value as they usually are conserved green spaces that become like the lungs of a urban city. We can say that these are exclusive to the few who can afford it but golf courses can also and are also used to host events and provide walking paths for the public. Economically they bring a certain level of prestige to area which can help bolster the economy which feeds into the local economy and tax base that can then be used to fix the housing issue for example. Housing can probably be better addressed with zoning laws, urban planning, underdeveloped vacant urban sites etc.

Yeah, who started the ignition of this decade long conflict can be debated but for sure who is driving it into worse off humanitarian conditions can be seen - nothing confirms this more than the ICC even applying for arrest warrants. Its unheard of for a key ally (some would say they started as one but have ended up as a liability) of the US to be hit with arrest warrants for war crimes - let alone during the process of committing those war crimes as it usually happens much after the fact. That the chief prosecutor was interviewed at length and able to say the things he did is even more startling and a sign of the tide shifting. Unlikely any arrests will occur, but what it says symbolically is something. Great interview shared on the previous page: At 17:10min Amanpour reading out the US letter threatening the ICC like some mafia..on CNN..someone pinch me.

Like others have said on this forum, I don't believe most Israeli's are intent on killing civilians, but theres enough in positions of power and the IDF who do which gets a spotlight lit on it - including the videos of them bragging and mocking Palestinian death. There may be no intent to harm civilians, but there isn't enough intent to avoid harming them in pursuit of combatants/terrorists. A few bad apples view Gaza as a place with no 'uninvolved civilians' or 'innocents' as has been stated before. Unfortunately these 'few bad apple' are important enough to hold positions of power which are then acted upon in policy and state action. Blockading Gaza, destroying fertile land, hospitals etc and invoking Amalek which obviously trickles down to the countries and IDF's mental framework gearing them up to do the unjustifiable and be okay with it. The only reason Israel hasn't gone further is because of International condemnation, but they've gone far enough to have ICC charges against them - which considering the US threatened the ICC for is surprising. But it goes to show the level of evidence they have, and the obligation to justice they feel that is enough for them to brush off any threats. Even putting morality and civilians death aside, just looking at it strategically - what has Israel achieved the past months in terms of hostages, defeating Hamas etc?

No one has to victimise Palestinians when they can clearly see with their own eyes what is the case. Every society is capable of terrorism, its not some unique characteristic of Arabs except by the circumstances and conditions that foster it more and more and yes to a extent even religion is used for these. But to act as if they live to be terrorists and they have no actual grievances which are capitalised on (occupation, no right of return etc) is denying the cause of a lot of problems still existing today.

You may not have to show mercy to the perpetrators but don't go after the many out of frustration for not being able to successfully get at the few who hurt you. Thinking this level of collateral damage and destruction is justified isn't such a moderate take by a moderator lol. Because Jewish history is one of being expelled from place to place one can understand why Jews don't trust anyone to have their interest at heart but it still doesn't justify doing it to people who never did it to you in the first place. Israel needs to learn to trust at leas its own allies. The wider context which gets missed in all this as people get lost in discussion of civilian:combatant kill ratios etc is the underlying cause being occupation of land. If we allow ancient claims to land to justify present injustice, we're opening a pandoras box to endless war which no country would be safe from because history and 'countries' are shifting sands. If ancient claims are part of Zionist logic that would justify Americans and Australians being kicked out or giving land back to the indigenous.

Karmadhis point was to provide context to different situations. The rightwing pipe dream is being translated into reality as we speak by what the states actions are in Gaza - to the point Israel has been summoned to the world court, condemned globally, and criticised and threatened with arms withdrawals even from its own allies. Israel can't just carry out what it wants as it wishes because it depends heavily on the support of the West. This is why no plan for the day after has been set and isn't by Bibi - obscurity is there because the real intention can't be spoken, but the smokescreen of 'bring back the hostages' keeps being fed to the people to help them justify what their state is doing in Gaza. Israel couldn't defend itself against Iranian missiles that Iran can produce as fast and as cheaply as Cuba can make cigars. Multiple countries stepped in to help intercept them. This is why Israel can't just do as it pleases and needs to balance its far right motivations with global consensus and what their allies will put up with. Even then, Israel defies international law and their allies warnings - but they still need to manage their own domestic affairs and the impact of isolationism and economic hardship from boycotts, trade ties being cut etc. Democracy and far right aren't mutually exclusive. Its like me saying slavery isn’t possible under a democracy - but it happened in recent history. The banner of democracy associates itself with the will of the people - demos. But what if the will of the people is moving to the right and so the leaders simply represent the electorate. When Israeli's say that the average Israeli is moderate they may be speaking from the more liberal parts or the capital where they are surrounded by the more moderate minded - but the demographic which is the fasting growing are the settler demographic who hold much more far right views and so politics will lean to cater to them as Bibi has done. Demographics is destiny - and the current trend is that the more right wing viewpoints are spawning the most yearly births which is pulling the countries political centre of gravity right and will continue to into the future.

If you can see that Israel has been pushed to its limit to act this way, you can surely see how Hamas are pushed to their limit to act how they did on October 7th. If Israeli settlers one day killed 1'000 Palestinians would that justify making 2 million Israeli's homeless and restricting aid to them? If you speak of context and symmetry there is a clear asymmetry in who has more power in this situation and what they choose to do with that power. Israeli's are given all the context they need to justify this war, but Palestinians aren't from the Zionist side - as if Hamas's sole reason for existence is to kill as many Israeli Jews as possible - as if their existence isn't fuelled by the context of occupation and oppression of Palestinians.

If a big portion of Israelis support Bibi or voted his government in would that justify collective punishment? Should the many suffer for what the few do? This is the logic used to justify what Israel does in Gaza because of Hamas. Even if not a single person died, I think we forget just what it means to lose not only your home but your entire neighbourhood or town. People feel violated when they lose an item or get robbed, imagine your home - neighbourhood - town. A lot of these people were already refugees now made refugees twice in a life time. That is a crime and stain against humanity regardless of the deaths. To top it off Israel denies these people appropriate aid access or as we’ve seen in one of the most militarized countries the IDF stands by or doesn’t prosecute settlers blocking / destroying aid. To make a place of 2 million people homeless and inhabitable through crop destruction, restrict aid to these same people and then make them run around like a mouse in a maze by initiating new operations to wherever they move to for safety (Rafah) is despicable and is why the world is mad at Israel - before we even get to deaths. But hardcore Zionists (not you in particular) will claim the death count being half or the numbers from Hamas not accurate as if it’s a victory - it’s not the win they think it is and only makes them come across worse in fact.

The ministries figures have been found to be generally accurate as the UN has said in past counts. It seems their basically dancing between identified vs verified counts. It's not like 8'000 kids dead (half the estimates) automatically makes them the most moral army but secondly even if true, the question of why aren't they able to identify the other casualties only indicates the horror of the situation even further. With such chaos there its a nightmare to go through the process. Firstly who is going to identify them when entire families have been killed and extended family members if still alive displaced? Who's gonna count the dead when they are entombed in the wreckage and rubble. Maybe bodies have been so mangled that fatalities become un-identifiable. Seems to me more like linguistic manipulation to have the world soften towards Israel rather than a attempt to be accurate.

A phrase I've heard before is that we are prisoners of geography. I think what this means is that geography (just like genetics) has a certain constraint and influence on what humans can do. Analogous to hardware / software = software operates within the constraints of the hardware it runs on. The structure / hardware dictates to a extent what software / state of mind is possible. It’s the conciousness (software) that maximizes but is limited to the constraints of the hardware (geography, genetics) it is housed within. As a example Middle East is at a cross roads between continents and civilizations which meant there was a flow of trade and ideas compared to say Australia at the edge of the world and only accessible once naval technology took off. Similarly from a military perspective countries with mountains around it or the sea become much less likely to be invaded due to their difficulty - nature provides a moat. India for example has the himalayas to its north and is surrounded by sea - obviously these were overcome with technological advancements. But compare this to more flat land regions where invasions are much more easier and likely where tribes/clans/groups clash like Europe or the flats Middle East. The span and scope of Islam and its geographic location allowing it to become a hub between regions counters the OP's claim of Islam being a cult - although I can understand where they come from. But in general, a cult isolates itself and its followers from the world whilst religions insulate/integrate themselves in the world - this is a spectrum where some integrate less than others. A cult is usually small and centralized around a specific leader so is the wrong term to apply to a major world religion with over a billion followers with different sects etc.

Shocking statements still being spoken despite talks of arrest warrants and Israel’s ally halting arms. The arrogance. Threats from the US to the ICC when they were considering arrest warrants of Israeli officials. Talk like a “democratic rule based order” but walk like a mafia. This is why Israel is above the law.

Looks like a bill is being passed for that

Demographics is destiny, geography is opportunity, genetics is potential. Analogous to hardware / software = software operates within the constraints of the hardware it runs on. Similarly it’s the conciousness (software) that maximises but is limited to the constraints of the hardware (geography, genetics) it is housed within. Reminds me of the Sadhguru thread where everyone was debating a yogi can or should over come a physical illness = elevating software to think it can transcend hardware. The opposite end is the geopolitical analyst Peter Zeihan who elevates hardware and has been calling China’s collapse due to its poor geography - but has high hopes for Argentina becoming a power due to its geography, or America staying top dog due to its superior geography. He overlooks the human element - the human conciousness (software) at work with the material it has (hardware).

To add nuance to above regarding past wrongs and tearing down of statues: it would probably more productive to self actualise from past history, rather than become self loathing about it. Historic symbols can be reminders - cautionary tales or lessons not to be repeated as well as the good to be repeated and built upon. Understandably younger generations want to tell a new story in their time and dissociation from ‘negative’ old ones - but negating the negative can mean it’s repeated. It would also be wise to not learn history in a way that elevates what is rightfully seen as immoral in today’s time, or learn it in a way that re-traumatises groups and sows more division.

Shahid Bolsen: "I said it before, they should have seen the writing on the wall in 2020 when this same generation was going around knocking down statues of slave owners and colonizers. They let you know then how they feel about that, what their stance is about that. They want nothing to do with colonization; they want to disavow that history. So if they want to distance themselves and disown colonization in their history, what makes you think that they'd be fine with being associated with colonization that's going on today? This generation didn't have a chance to oppose slavery and colonization a century ago or two centuries ago, so they just pulled down all the icons of slavery and colonization, everything that they could find, they tore it down. But right now, today, they have the opportunity to actively oppose and fight against present-day colonization in Palestine, and that's what they're doing. I mean, seriously, how could you not see this coming. Were they subtle in 2020? Of course, this generation is going to fight you; of course, they're going to reject Zionism; of course, they're going to oppose genocidal colonization. This is their chance. This is their chance to prove that their anger and their guilt about America's crimes in the past, that their anger was genuine. This is their chance to prove to you, to themselves, and to the world that they meant it in 2020 when they knocked down all those statues. This is their chance to manifest the virtue that they were signaling four years ago, and that's what they're doing. And the knee-jerk reaction of your so-called civilization, your so-called culture that's so addicted to colonization and so addicted to brutality—their knee-jerk reflex response is to turn vicious, to turn ugly, to turn oppressive and violent against anyone who's trying to cure them of that addiction. But this time, you're attacking your own future leaders; you're attacking your own precious babies of the elite, and this is just how wild and incurable your addiction is. This is just how morally bankrupt and how corrupt your so-called society, your so-called civilization is. You're willing to sacrifice your own young, your own heirs to power, your own successors to the imperial throne because of your insatiable thirst for the blood of the colonized. You're too drunk on the blood of your victims to know that you are too drunk to lead anymore. These students are trying to tell you that friends don't let friends commit genocide, but then you just turn your blind fury against them. I'm telling you, your power structure is cannibalistic; we're witnessing an American meltdown in real time. It's a tectonic shift; the epicenter is in Gaza, but the shock waves are shaking the foundation of American power. Every time the Israelis launch a missile, I'm telling you, it lands in the United States, and if things keep going the way they're going, before too long, there isn't going to be anything left standing in that country."

As warrants may be coming out for Israeli officials its a good time to note a US law called the "Hague Invasion Act." This law authorizes the US president to use force, including invading the Netherlands where the ICC is based, to release any individual detained by the ICC. This includes not only US personnel but also personnel from allied countries, including Israel. Coercion wrapped in geopolitics. The US has a history of hostility toward the ICC, including sanctions imposed on ICC employees investigating potential war crimes by US allies in Afghanistan. "Rules Based Order'' but uncle Sam don't give a damn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act#:~:text=This authorization led to the,or rescue them from custody.

The point about balance between state and market gets over looked as the often uninformed Western perspective clings to the notion of China being strictly communist and authoritarian and communism = failure = bad. The reality is more nuanced: China operates under a mixed economy paradigm that is almost its own thing and is beyond capitalism or socialism. Local governments play a big role to the point a political scientist terms their hybrid economy the 'mayor economy.'

Good use of dark humor to hit the nail on the head lol apple pie. How about 'walking my dog' genocide: