zazen

Did Palestinians control their own border of Gaza, water and air space? Define occupation and define terrorism? What are your definitions. Why is it known to be occupied territories globally. Pop your own bubble my friend or the harsh reality of avoiding reality will do it for you eventually.

120 if for the Knesset. 37 are the number of ministers who have more executive power. Out of those ministers 12 went to this event calling for settlement expansion in Gaza which is displacement and ethnic cleansing, which is a subset of genocide, which is ruled as plausible by the ICJ. But okay, lets say 10%. Thats still way more involved in some way (by attending this event) in the crime of ethnic cleansing vs 0.04% of people involved in October 7th. Usually there is a investigation done before someone is prosecuted. In this case it was only a allegation - even then, UNRWA sacked those 12 employees and started a investigation. Lets make it 12 criminals x 10 to make it 120 criminals involved in October 7th. Out of 13'000 workers in Gaza thats just about 1%. So why should a whole organisation that is needed as a life line to people who are undergoing a atrocity be defunded? It's not even being defunded after the atrocity at a separate time but during it and arguably at the most critical time when they need it as validated by the urgency and ruling of the ICJ - the worlds highest court. If you are unable to empathise with Palestinians lets make this a Jewish example. Lets say during the Holocaust and German persecution of the Jews there was a UN agency aiding and helping Jews who have been persecuted, and within this agency there were a few Jewish members who were part of the Warsaw uprising. Now, should the whole agency be defunded because of a small percentage of workers committing crimes which from their point of view was just resistance anyway? Hope you can see the point and how heartless this is.

12 of Israel’s 37 government ministers were at this event. Almost a third - 33%. Should the government stop being funded by US? The same government that is on trial for Genocide. Vs 12 out of 13’000 who work for UNRWA in Gaza (not out of 30’000 total in Middle East which makes the percentage 0.04%) were allegedly involved which is 0.09% of the work force - but they should be de-funded and not a ethnic cleansing, apartheid maintaining government?

@Nivsch Celebrating injustice is sick and wrong. I think what people mean when they celebrated was that they are celebrating the liberation of breaking free from being caged in by Israel - not the deaths and massacring that Hamas were doing that they were unaware of at the time. When wars are won, the winning side celebrate at victory, should they celebrate after so many deaths? Who knows, war is bad for all in general. Unnecessary death over diplomacy. Should Israeli's be celebrating the eradication of Gaza and the settlements expansion in it as the video below shows: One is a celebration of liberation while the other is a celebration of legitimising ethnic cleansing, displacement and settlements. From the same event: Listen to her words. We won’t give the Arabs any food, they will leave, the world will take them. In other words, collective punishment. Shouldn’t this be defunded? This is the leader of the settlement movement, her name is Daniella Weiss.

There are issues in large scale organisations. That doesn't mean its the sole intent of the organisation. If there are a few bad segments within it that are overlooked they should be investigated and persecuted. But that doesn't mean stopping the whole organisation itself which is a life line for Palestinians - especially the day after a plausible case for Genocide has been ruled. UNRWA represents and symbolises the existence of refugees and the right of return for them - this is something Israel doesn't want to exist because it reminds the world of the existence of Israel's wrong actions that led to a refugee situation in Gaza in the first place. They also don't want UNRWA to keep alive the idea of a right to return which they facilitate and that Israel wouldn't want for Gazans to return when expelled from Gaza. Just yesterday there was a event about establishing settlements in Gaza with 12 out of 36 Knesset member present. Should we now defund the Knesset because of this violation? What about Epstein files and mossad connections, should we defund Mossad? How many IDF have committed war crimes? What about all we have seen in the past 3 months with there arrogant tik tok videos and journalists. Should the whole IDF be defunded? Should the US de-fund Israel because it has committed war crimes, been accused of plausible genocide, does ethnic cleansing in West Bank, has someone who Israeli's themselves called a terrorist (Ben Gvir) in their cabinet? This has been done strategically by Israel - released the report and allegation the day of the hearing if it wasn't in their favour (which it wasn't) to distract from it and punish the UN. America is doing Israels dirty work , and now with escalations by the US army casualties in Syria/Jordan they are calling for war with Iran which will have ripple affects globally if allowed to happen. All because the US can't stop Israel from massacring and would rather pursue imperialism and war profits.

There are degrees to things - a spectrum of oppression exists. Were women so oppressed by patriarchy in the past because they couldn’t vote? Did they need to protest and even go as far as the suffragettes who vandalised buildings in protest? The level of resistance is in line with the level of oppression. Resistance doesn't have to exclusively be only to the most extreme absolute versions of oppression and it doesn't deny the fact that some form of oppression is occurring that needs resisting and protesting to. Ethnic cleansing/displacement is still happening whether they live in a nice house in West Bank or not. Fundamental rights, such as right to self determination and right to return are denied. They are occupied and bullied in their own land. By your logic, if a group of people run a society better that entitles them to rule over another group - almost like a colonial argument. If the Japanese run society well and have one of the best economies, is clean, efficient and safe should they rule over other people? Should the British rule India? What’s your definition of terrorism? We should give as much weight to the sociological framework of genocide as we do to the legal framework of genocide, especially considering that the legal framework was established in a manner built to protect the most powerful states in the world from accountability. The legal framework under which we prosecute genocide is limited and has always been limited. It is so limited that not even Germany has ever been convicted of genocide and yet when the Holocaust is denied, we deem it correctly as genocide denialism. - Arnesa Buljusmic-Kustura (Genocide researcher)

Here’s a short clip on the use of freedom of speech regarding religion: And if you like that a slightly longer one by the same speaker which is interesting. Start at 3 min 30 sec.

@Heaven You’ve called for two users to be banned in the last two days. Leo and moderators are there for a reason / that’s within their authority not ours. If certain videos challenge your worldview too much take a break - though you haven’t been present on this thread for long. But yes, too much propaganda and link sharing can be annoying. That said - I can bring links that are not Al Jazeera but more pro-Israeli Murdoch media that would still probably bug you out lol.

@_Archangel_ Agreed. There have been posts here regarding a wider context and the macro view of the situation. The issue is a lot of those underlying dynamics just aren’t accepted such as that there is an occupation, apartheid lite structure or a slow motion ethnic cleansing campaign happening since decades. The common rebuttal is that this is propaganda or that Jews have been persecuted for centuries so anything required for a safe state is justified. At my current understanding I see the core dynamic (macro) of the situation as the following; - Israel was a humanitarian project with good intent married to colonial project with colonial intent, in an era when de-colonisation was occurring and it was no longer accepted. What made this an exception was the horrifying atrocity of the Holocaust. - They sought to establish a Jewish majority state in a Arab majority land and population. To achieve this would require demographic engineering using laws, guns and a strong narrative to justify it. - What came from it was two controlled territories recognised as occupied but that have been allowed to be ‘run’ by Palestinians in a limited way as a way to deflect from the fact that they are occupied even though they are (West Bank internally - Gaza externally). - To accomplish this would require mastering propaganda, weaponising past traumas such as the Holocaust and using labels such as anti-Semitic to nuke criticism. Intertwining with institutions of world powers and the worlds superpower to ensure constant support for it doesn’t hurt either. - Naturally to uphold such a structure requires oppression and violence. Just as it is natural for blood to arise from a wound, resistance will arise against oppression as a consequence. Any resistance to oppression is then gaslighted as terrorism to dehumanise and discredit their cause. Narrative control. - As far as isolated events (October 7th): cunning and powerful nations will focus on the latest event they feel transgressed against and leave out any wider context leading up to it, including any provocations on their part (Ukraine/Russia). They behave as if the word provocation doesn’t exist in the dictionary and then act like the event that erupted into war was simply done in a vacuum. - On an even wider geopolitical context: we are entering a multipolar a world where the West aren’t the unipolar hegemon. This is why more nations are emboldened to challenge them. It’s not that they aren’t a power, they just aren’t the only one - and they haven’t acclimated to the fact. When entities die out, they lash out in retaliation to their egos getting hurt, acting and flexing to remain top dog which is now only seen as a liability by the world. Whether they accept this fact or destabilise the world because they can’t remains to be seen - many steps can clearly be seen for the latter. Making it relevant to Israel’s situation, just see what actions have been taken and the timing of them. The night of South Africa’s hearing in ICJ (wasn’t broadcast in the West) they bombed Yemen to deflect attention and show who’s in charge. The day following ICJ’s ruling that a plausible case for Genocide exists they pull funding from UNRWA (UN aid for Palestinians) for similar reasons and which is now all over Western news rather than the case itself. This was done on allegation from Israel that 12 members (who have now been sacked and are under investigation) were involved in October 7th. UNRWA employs 30’000 people, so for 0.4% of criminal activity you shut down a agency that is most needed the day after the top world court has legitimised a genocide in process implying the need for such a agency. If 0.4% of the NHS (UK’s national health service) were criminal, does that justify pulling the plug on the whole thing? Or is it a retaliation. The West are now in breach of the Geneva convention which was just emphasised a day earlier ( facilitation of aid ). The US leads the way and Europe follows like lapdogs. Just like Edward Snowden said: the US/EU facility criminal activity and enable Israel. This isn’t to be anti-West (I’m in the west, from it and pro it) but the establishment and devilry needs to be called out and addressed, and true Western values need to be lived (pro-humanity, tolerance , justice and old values we thought we evolved out of discarded: covert imperialism, colonialism and predatory capitalism)

Probably will (disobey) already have. The response has been the usual remarks by some of the government - anti-Semitic and mockery. Ben Gvir tweeted Hague Schmague - pariah state behaviour. A lot of pro-Israeli media have tried spinning it as a win lol that just because the court didn’t order a ceasefire the case is bogus, but they omit everything else including that a plausible case for genocide has been made and all the orders are in effect a ceasefire - just not in name. Guessing the system (ICJ) didn’t want to stand up too straight against Western empire and give South Africa the complete win - they spared them complete embarrassment, gave a off-ramp, and probably saved themselves in the process too. On a more technical note some have said ceasefire implies two warring militarised states which isn’t the case so the term wasn’t applied. I’m no longer frustrated when talking to avid Zionists because like fish in the sea, they are submerged in the propaganda of their state which has seeped into them like microplastics in water. The danger this presents is that they can go on as usual by the false propaganda their state dishes out to them which causes a moral hazard. If made to believe all is okay and they don’t police their hate inciting language they ultimately self own themselves. Maybe we can’t even lay blame to them similar to how we can’t always lay blame to children with poor parenting - which in this case is that US has parented their child and baby, the 51st state of the US otherwise known as Israel. What we see is the result of 7 decades of impunity and no accountability manifestly on display that makes anyone suffer from 2nd degree embarrassment from watching the delusion, denial and distortion. I don’t say this with glee but with worry for their own image to the world and for them to continue business as usual which Palestinians suffer from and which doesn’t help regional peace. I think the only chance of them stopping is US and Western power pressuring them / not enabling them further. Spin doctor: Edward speaking out. Will the White House show a white heart or a black one in their response at the next resolutions.

True. I think another aspect is that the biases we see from the 'other' side can lead to frustration to the point each side will want to share isolated events which can help pop the other sides bubble and let them see that its not that they have biases, but that biases actually have them completely imprisoned. Similar to the fact that its not that people have routines or power but that routines and power have them as their servants. ie the guy who feels he can't get his day started without his 3 hour biohacking routine and anything missed ruins his day, or so he thinks lol. If a isolated event is stark enough and individualized it can be a powerful tool at exposing our biases. When we hear large numbers like 10'000 dead it doesn't impact the same way seeing a named face who has dreams, aching eyes and a story behind them. Hits deeper and shakes us out of apathetic dehumanization and overlooking our 'sides' actions in perpetuating that suffering. Yeah jumping to conclusions too quickly is problematic. So is repeatedly leaving these isolated events one after another to accumulate dust while the other side uses them deflecting their responsibility and amplifying the event to then justify the continued horrors they commit. I think thats also a big reason why people rush to straighten out the facts and propaganda that has deadly consequences. If it wasn't consequential they probably wouldn't. Its really messy.

There are profiteers deeply entrenched in this on both sides of the border. Those engaged in the illicit trade of human smuggling are reaping financial gains through bribes and charging exorbitant fees for each person they transport. Meanwhile, the migrants who are stuck in a web of desperation often find themselves indebted to these ruthless cartels and traffickers, forced into labor under deplorable conditions, and earning barely enough to live on after repaying debts. Modern day slavery. They are sold the 'American Dream' but are being instrumentalized for ends they aren't aware of. Exploitation is emblematic of a broader system where the vulnerable are preyed upon by bad actors for the sake of their own enrichment. The whole issue of illegal migration is cynically used as a political pawn. Because conservatives have far right groups who hitch onto the political ride and express racist views, that xenophobia is then associated to conservatism and gets presented as 'conservative xenophobia' when its literally common consensus around the world to not encourage illegal immigration and have strong borders. No doubt that the far right can amplify this to galvanize support for politics, but so can the other side and vested interests downplay the risks of not cracking down on illegal migration fast enough due to fears of seeming 'racist' or not caring enough when it really is the least caring thing to incentivise a system of exploitation the realities of which go over most peoples heads.

Highly unlikely to lead to civil war but still divisive. Biden also will be pausing pending approvals of Liquefied Natural Gas Exports which Texas is the leading state of, possibly punishment? If Texas were to secede from US and become part of BRICS its acronym would be BRISCT - as in beef brisket lol. This has devastating effects on Europe / Germany. If someone were to be conspiratorial it seems the events that haven taken place over the past 3 years seem perfectly aligned with the US monopolizing energy and destroying the European economy (Euro) and German industrial competition. Detach Germany from Russian energy (Nordstream pipeline destroyed?), aggravate trade routes in the red sea by escalating against Houthis which inflates energy costs to Europe and make them even more dependent on US energy. Now, this to squeeze them.

At times Lila would share interesting viewpoints, at others she would emote and vent out rather than discuss. No one need be mean about it, decorum is valued. Bit of a mess for US/UK and Germany. They stated the case as baseless and meritless yet here we are - it has basis, merit and receipts. The orders were all in favour by all judges except Israel and some Uganda also. 1-2 vs 16. Now comes the test in how its responded to and if the very legal system the West created post WW2 is upheld by the West themselves. Interesting to see if US stands defiant and vetoes further resolutions. Many ramifications going forward.

Owen Jones can be overly emotional though he does provide good information. The court took the middle way. Basically agreed with South Africa and declared plausibility of genocide but didn't go all the way in calling for cease fire which South Africa requested - only other measures to civilize the military operation through : aid provision, no harm to civilians, incitement of hate (a lot of the Israeli government ministers) to be punishable, and for action on all these to be reported within a month. The secondary affects will now come from Western nations and how they respond to pressure Israel now that a plausible case has been made. Surely, no nation wants the stain of plausible genocide to be brushed on them - especially not for leaders during a election year which can hurt their chances of re-election.

Appreciate the good intentions towards me. There’s bad bees in every hive, the bad ones in the Israeli hive have unfortunately brought the case of plausible genocide to the ICJ upon themselves. The hearing has ruled in South Africas favour and won the case for a plausible genocide taking place. A stain on Israel’s reputation and all who facilitate it in US and the West. Now the pressure comes on the West as to how they deal with Israel. Their lack of response will only create more of a rift and divide between them and the Global South.

''The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that. The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.'' - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg Stoltenberg boasts that Putin invaded Ukraine to prevent NATO expansion and got the exact opposite by Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO. His remarks and admission to provocation would have been labelled Russian propaganda and false by Western imperial 'fact checkers' had it not been said by himself - the head general of NATO. He is merely stating a well-known fact: powerful nations, including the United States, do not allow foreign military threats to accumulate on their borders. This is why many analysts and officials in the West had warned for years that NATO's actions could lead to conflict. Yet, when the war did break out, it was often portrayed in the media as an "unprovoked invasion," despite these earlier warnings. History always seems to start the very date the Western powers feel transgressed against. The same way for Israel the current conflict started on October 7th and 'just occurred' in a vacuum. They always omit the escalatory amount of provocations that lead to the eruption of war. Then gaslight the other side for being war mongering when their own military industrial complex and vested imperial interests have been behind the scenes churning the gears of war through think tanks, propaganda and contracts.

Nietzsche's work had a way of leading mediocrity to perceive itself as greatness, it was a call to greatness that weakness found alluring and that the already strong found self validating and intoxicating. His particular concept of the Übermensch can inflate one's ego through a compelling narrative. Another related insight of his was that ideas are like revolving stars in space. Humans have a need to anchor themselves to something they can orbit around - a idea, a nation, a person or a cause. The void and free fall therein is too scary to live with. Nazism and Nietzsche killed off the star/ idea of God - the unitive source of life - the brightest star in the mental universe and replaced that void with nothing but the star of the self to revolve around - which Hitler perversely mutated into the star of the ethnic self to elevate.

Thanks for the insights, that's something I've noticed also with the Jewish community and diaspora abroad. Very well organised, connected and caring of one another - great to see. This same level of organisational ability is used by a lot of Jews in the West to speak out and protest against what Israel (the state) is doing - it isn't necessarily a condemnation of Israeli's themselves which often gets personalized. A lot of those characteristics of caring for the elderly (the concept of care home is foreign in the East) the emphasis on hospitality etc is something I've seen among many Middle Easterners in general (a guest is King mentality). However, those characteristics and being socially free to allow LGBT people live and let live doesn't justify unjust actions of the state the same way Saudi Arabia will be criticized though they may be hospitable or the US government will be criticized for their foreign policy though they are very tolerant. Everyone's fighting for their survival not only Jews - the Palestinians are fighting for survival of their heritage and land - to not be ethnically cleansed from. As I mentioned, the Jews are hypersensitive to threats and amplify them to be existential when they aren't - this can be empathized with as its due to their past horrific trauma. But when this is acted upon and causes further trauma on another people that's where the world steps in to condemn which is then taken as anti-semitic.

Peace and love.

These terms are used strategically rather than universally as a matter of principle and definition. @Nivsch Kenway literally provided a clip with no propaganda and even wrote “Very little context, but again gives a very brief glimpse into the magnitude of the desperation as the food crisis deepens.” That’s as good faith as your gonna get. The links I provided 2 pages back were news interviews or outlets (non-Al Jazeera) and a clip from the UN. We can’t control what the comments or captions are gonna be.

Squatting deep with full range of motion. They should lunge back to their given territory and stop expanding jeez. Would be sad to see that land settled on after the world watched what massacre went on there and at what cost it came.

Understanding a point of view doesn't mean standing with it. I can get Israel's perspective - particularly the point of not allowing a state in West Bank due to security risks coming from the North which has a elevation and proximity to Tel Aviv that puts it right in the cross hairs for some attacks. The issue is Israel wants a majority Jewish population in a majority Arab land - that requires demographic engineering through laws and guns ie occupation and apartheid which will be resisted and that will demand a level of violence and oppression to uphold until it erupts like a volcano (October 7th). To maintain this structure in the modern world needs propaganda and a narrative of superiority and entitlement that allows Israeli citizens to be okay with their state doing what it has to do in the background of their lives and even participating in it when they have to via the IDF. If looked at honestly, both lands for the Palestinians remain controlled internally (West Bank) and externally (Gaza) by Israel effectively making it a single state with with two territories (districts) run by Palestinians with different laws and rights ie apartheid. The issue is it can't go on forever into the 21st century which isn't receptive to such a set up. It's just ill fitting for this era which is why the world has issue with it - especially since the label of democracy and Western values gets slapped onto Israel and proudly worn which brings with it expectations and standards in line with that - and when those aren't met (especially in how IDF conducts war and mocks Gazans on tik tok) it causes people to pause, take a look and possibly even reconsider their world view. What is democracy? Could it be half a democracy or its own version of it due to its unique situation? Hmm, can a woman be half pregnant? Well, she can be a few months pregnant and maybe thats Israel right now, its still a young nation on its way and hasn't fully caught up to where it should be according to its aspiration of being a democracy like the ones in the West it likes to affiliate itself with. As for stubbornness and entitlement it could be for a few reasons: past horrific traumas inflicted on the Jews which causes them to be hypersensitive to any threat, even if it isn't existential ie Hamas don't have a airforce, tanks, artillery, nuclear etc compared to a nation that has all of them including the backing of major powers. The impunity given to Israel by a superpower (the US) and a guilt laden coalition of Western allies who committed the worst atrocities to their ancestors. The fact that Israel has a political stranglehold over powerful nations of the West. Maybe also ancient scripture claiming them as the chosen ones and which works as a title deed to the land - as if the land is patented and trademarked solely for them by their God.

@Nivsch Despite you not agreeing with a lot of views here, you exposing yourself to them on a daily basis shows good intention - especially as you don’t personally insult anyone. What can be annoying is how stubborn your biases can be but it gives some insight into an Israeli point of view which is good to have. One thing people need to be aware of is not personalising criticism of their governments which isn’t always easy. This threads gonna be hot this weekend after the ICJ hearing tomorrow lol

Sisi who is on good terms with Israel to speaking out on aid obstruction due to Israel says a lot - not sure how accurate this is or just him saving his own skin due to Israel publicly throwing him under the bus on this issue at ICJ for the world to hear. Will be surprised to hear if the ICJ result comes in as no plausible case for genocide - it doesn’t have to be a final verdict, just plausible - which there seems to be sufficient evidence for by now.