zazen

Even a US court has ruled the findings of plausible case for Genocide as valid now. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court

I think when criticising countries, the people of those countries get offended as they personalise it as an attack on them - but usually it’s that we’re referring to the few bad agents who run the show. Not like some monolithic conspiracy but just as a confluence of aligned elite interests. That's why people wonder why there’s very few politicians who do what’s long term and strategically good for their country. As Leo mentions above - these politicians are ‘mired in groupthink’ they wouldn’t admire otherwise had they the ability to step outside of it, and are beholden to financial and political survival by entities and people they don’t always hold the same views as but where personal interests align to create bad public outcomes. Strategy requires a long term vision that short term 4 years cycles keeps cutting. Maybe that’s a flaw that needs to be somehow addressed in the political system. Each different political party undoes the work of the previous one on areas they differ in policy. By the time the party gets the groove of running the nation they get bogged down in saying and doing things they wouldn’t otherwise and prepping for the next election cycle instead of focusing on running the country. Besides the parties, influence and power lies with private sector (corporatism). The strings they pull politically causes dissonance. For example, US politics see’s Russia as a boogeyman and a current threat to the West (Europe particularly) yet LNG exports have been halted from US who the ‘West’ (Europe) rely on to fuel their economies and military budgets against this threat of Russia. Surely, you wouldn’t cripple your European allies (Nordstream anyone?) during major war time with Russia who you deem so evil? The only way to squre that circle is either Biden catering to the environmentally minded base of support for the coming election or the private sector pulling strings to cripple European industry/competition and make Europe even more dependent on the US - or the convenient marriage of both. Thats why the contradiction and dissonance of our own nations sounding good but doing bad exists. Our documents say we’re good ( “human rights, democracy, freedom” ) but the conduct of our state is otherwise - good documents, bad deeds. The imperialist mindset comes from the frame that anyones freedom anywhere is a threat to their supremacy everywhere. Thats why the US can set up 800 global bases including surrounding (in their softened words “to contain”) the borders and seas of Russia and China and frame it as acceptable, but if the role was reversed (Chinese/Russian base in Mexico?) they’d call it a national security threat from a entity wishing to dominate. Even Westerners themselves now feel disillusioned from their nations claiming an Angelic nature written in the ink of charters which is then contradicted in action. Those nations that call this out or challenge it have to pay the blood price through wars, interventionist coups, sanctions and propaganda campaigns that demonise them - which only turns the world more hostile towards the West and isolates it

Powerful nations, including the United States, do not allow foreign military threats to accumulate on their borders. This is why many analysts and officials in the West had warned for years that NATO's actions could lead to conflict. Yet, when the war did break out, it was often portrayed in the media as an "unprovoked invasion," despite these earlier warnings. History always seems to start the very date the Western powers feel transgressed against and that a certain transgression occurs. The same way for Israel the current conflict started on October 7th and 'just occurred' in a vacuum. What is omitted is the escalatory amount of provocations that lead to the eruption of war. The other side is then gaslit for being war mongering when their own military industrial complex and vested imperial interests have been behind the scenes churning the gears of war through think tanks, propaganda and contracts. It’s crafty - pushing someone into a corner despite them explicitly saying what their red lines are, then pointing fingers at them and using mass propaganda to paint them as a boogeyman for trying to get out of that corner. A snapshot look at a situation will show who is the clear aggressor in that narrow slot of time (Hamas on October 7th and Russia invading) but it would leave out the Birds Eye view needed to shed light on the covert provocative nature of the instigators. It is human to condemn acts of violence, but it is wise to condemn the conditions that led to those very acts and to mitigate them.

Ex colonizers should think why the majority of the world don't think like them. At least some colonial states like Portugal and Spain have evolved past that paradigm and recognize wrong from right in the current era. If someone comes out and says clearly who is more in the wrong in a situation - the assumption is that they are biased. But it could also be that even someone who did their best to view a situation objectively with fresh baby eyes and minimal bias comes to the same conclusion of who is more of the aggressor, instigator and oppressive party in a situation. There are other reasons why people don't come out and say who is wrong in a situation - maybe cowardice from the consequences, lack of interest in debating the issue, lack of knowledge or just that they don't wish to alienate the other side as the other side usually takes criticism as condescension and hostility. Fortifying dignity, liberation and self-determination are non-negotiable to people, that's why they're called inalienable rights - it isn't some gift from the oppressor that rewards the oppressed if they behave well like pavlovs dog. Dignity removes the boot of oppression from the neck, liberation allows the freedom to stand on ones feet and move, and self determination allows the people to choose the path they walk. Those who oppose any of these or denies them to a people becomes their oppressor and can expect resistance, even armed resistance. If those people become liberated and choose to oppress another people, the same mechanism that applied to their original oppressor now applies to them.

@Karmadhi Yeah, every religion can be taken and perverted. Some more than others depending on what their texts contain and the conciousness reading them as you mentioned and outlined nicely. Judaism seems oriented around a people, Christianity around the fact that man is god (though they took this more literally than metaphorically that we all contain God essence / Christ consciousness), Islam went beyond ethnicity and claimed God is a all encompassing unity beyond the form of gender and genetics. Its conception of God is a more accurate map of the reality of God. How religion is used can definitely influence the psyche and help normalize certain behaviors, mixed in with the ideology of nationality. For example the following: ''Investigation by Haaretz reveals not only that the Israeli military is covertly running a racist, genocide-promoting social media account, 72 Virgins, but that the military lied when challenged about its involvement. A typical post shows a video of an Israeli military vehicle driving backwards and forwards over a Palestinian with the excited caption: 'Run him over run him over!!!! Screw the bastards! Flatten them.' The Haaretz report can read here: https://archive.ph/DqeYw '' The claim that just because a certain society allows more freedom for gay people to openly show public displays of affection or that women aren't shamed for sleeping around - that this allows them to be given more of a free pass in committing massacres is irrelevant and indefensible.

You can experience a projection of nature, not nature itself which has a more visceral connection in ways we don't even know of.

Why is it that most of the Jewish youth of America don't agree with the Israeli states actions and have actually been the most vocal about it in protest? This suggests their is a difference in mentality. Unless you refer to the settlers who come from America and feel entitled to take Palestinians homes like the famous Jacob from Brooklyn who said 'If i don't steal it someone else will' - those guys are similar to Israeli mentality of the far right. It wasn't meant to be thorough take. But since you think you know better whats going on in Netenyahu's head maybe elaborate on it. If its as simple as 'he's trying to defeat Hamas absolutely and get rid of them' then that's nothing new. The question is, how realistic is that, what will be the consequences of that (suffering of many more Palestinians) and can Israel afford more bad press world wide and war crimes being live streamed boastfully by the IDF to be further embarrassed by the ICJ case which I'm sure is noting all of it and will display it on their follow up.

@BlueOak @bebotalk Sometimes, the substance of the message isn't the issue but the style of it is - and if that style is bad faith, dismissive and mocking that stains the message. Blueoaks description on the hollowing out of the middle class is spot on - and how the beast of corporatism has grown to devour its own people in the region from which it grew out of - the capitalist West. While the tide of capitalism may have lifted many boats in its ascent, it is now drowning many in its later stages. It reduces members of society to numbers on a screen - the separation of state and religion removes the moral dimension from state power and hands it over to the private sector of corporatism which lacks morality. Corporatism is amoral, anational - it's interest is solely in the material and multi-national and serves the board rooms push for profits over the citizens working as a cog in the machine who struggle to sleep peacefully at night knowing they have a sense of security - financially, socially, politically, Bebo mentioning how the past was worse than the present is partially true in that whilst things have progressed in certain decades (which Blueoak provided the nuance for - 40-90's) they have devolved in others ways and times. The boomer generation often looks at the younger generations and says 'your life isn't even tough' but both generations can have it rough without invalidating the others suffering. One's suffering (the older generations) may be more physical, while the others is more psychological (younger gen) - but as we know the body and mind aren't two islands and psychological dis-ease spills over into the physical. The younger generation of today feel disillusioned, un-anchored, atomised, over stimulated and flooded with information they lack the wisdom to parse through, and distrustful of all the institutions their parents relied on for a sense of stability to make sense of reality. Their parents raised them with the expectations of a better future, and to inhabit a world oriented towards that but which hasn't transpired to meet those expectations. This makes them feel betrayed and sidelined. Civilization and buzzwords such as rights, progress, and democracy provide a veneer of improvement but what lies behind is a deep visceral distrust for the system, disorientation from a lack of social belonging, and disgust for a culture that condescends them. Many people in the West who have a heritage elsewhere - aren't inclined to fight for it. A lot of them had their homelands colonized and pillaged. And the natives within the West feel forgotten and spat on by the state and system that hollowed out their quality of life through floods of migration lowering their wages and outsourcing to cheaper labor pools globally. This is the same system which would now like to use them as fodder for their wars. The people in general are far more aware of the stupidity of war, and who it really serves (the few over the many) and the propaganda that is exercised on them to brainwash them into a state of war. After the Middle East debacle and lies that led to it (weapons of mass destruction) - people are wary of war in general. That doesn't rule out war, its just more likely that the war won't be for the system or state, but against it.

To the moderate Israeli's to not get triggered when people refer to 'Zionists' the nuance of how the word is used should be explained. I think a lot of those speaking against 'Zionism' don't necessarily mean the eradication of Israel as a state, but the eradication of an oppressive apartheid version of the state. If the idea of Zionism means a state and homeland for Jews then most can be for it (regardless of if they are against ethno-states in general - that's another conversation). But if Zionism means a state for Jews that is formed and exists till today at the expense of local inhabitants within their borders or surrounding it, a state that goes beyond its borders to form a Greater Israel and encroaches land through settlement expansion, and a state that denies local inhabitants outside of its borders statehood and keeps them in a limbo state of affairs which involves a violent 'security' structure that is routinely resisted against - most are against this version of Zionism. Call it ultra-Zionism. The British philosopher Bertrand Russell's warning from 1970 on Israel's strategy in the Middle East: 'For over 20 years Israel has expanded by force of arms. After every stage in this expansion Israel has appealed to “reason” and has suggested “negotiations”. 'This is the traditional role of the imperial power, because it wishes to consolidate with the least difficulty what it has already taken by violence. Every new conquest becomes the new basis of the proposed negotiation from strength, which ignores the injustice of the previous aggression. 'The aggression committed by Israel must be condemned, not only because no state has the right to annex foreign territory, but because every expansion is an experiment to discover how much more aggression the world will tolerate.'

And they will silence anyone who will. Like the notorious Henry Kissinger said ' It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.' Now Biden has has halted LNG exports, only further squeezing those dependent on them - mainly Europe. The economic heart of the EU - Germany is slowly de-industrializing. European competition is reduced and US dependence is solidified, including US industry. This isn't to attribute conspiratorial intention, but rather points to the opportunism of corporatism which is amoral and cares nothing for any nation or its citizens except for those who sit in the boardrooms. The irony is that Europe is still buying oil from their Russian 'enemy' through the back door - just at a higher price and suffering of their own people with cost of living, industry losses and lay offs. Russian oil is being bought up by India and other intermediaries, refined and repackaged and sold at a profit back to Europe. 'Sanctions' at work. Instead of peace they would rather continue to ratchet up world war 3 rhetoric and let their own people suffer because their ego can't handle a multi-polar world. Shame.

The pimps of war and the narrative orchestraters of empire don't want this interview to drop tonight - especially by one of their own who has big reach. It goes against information interests and exposes the underbelly of imperialism, the hypocrisy and the propaganda. The pointless death of countless lives can be attributed to this imperial war machine that throws anyone or thing under the bus for its own greedy interest, including its own 'allies'. Women are being sent to die for this because they’re low on men - but no mainstream western media outlet or spokesperson will be let to admit defeat or speak of it. They then spin their women going to war as if it’s some win and to show that they’re ‘built different’. Disgusting propaganda for perverted ends. It’s so horrific that they can't afford the truth to come out in any way that shows the West has any responsibility in this. The word provocation doesn’t enter or exist in their dictionary, neither does the red lines of other powers that have explicitly been shared. Instead, the West are the only unipolar power of the world - a false reality they fail to let go of and will allow countless lives to die for. They believe in a rules based order dictated by them, not international law equally applies to all as a matter of principle. Not to mention the billions of dollars that domestically aren't used and are instead sent and recycled into corrupt pockets. This doesn’t discount the devilry of other nations, but it doesn’t invalidate the analysis of devilry the West commits - if only one is able to detox from the propaganda that seeps into them if they live within the West (like fish in water) - the Global South are much more aware of this reality.

Honey, I'm home. BREAKING: Netanyahu rejects cease-fire deal with Hamas and vows to fight until "absolute victory." This madman will set Israel and the world on fire just to delay his inevitable removal from power and the consequences from a pending corruption court case against him. Keep this in mind in future discussions when Zionists bring up the fact that many peace proposals are rejected by Palestinians - without delving into the details of those proposals or hoping those they discuss with have a short memory or are ignorant of the details. Even Saudi Arabia has now come out and said no normalization with Israel will take place without a recognized Palestinian state. At the same time a poll shows half of Israel don't want a Palestinian state. Similar to a poll early on in the conflict that showed 60% didn't think Israel was using enough firepower (after dropping the equivalent of two Hiroshimas on a tiny populated area of civilians unable to flee) - keep these poll results in mind next time Zionists claim its only a few extremists in their government, or use Netenyahu as a scapegoat for the systemic entitlement and dehumanizing sentiment a lot of Israeli society has for Palestinians. 'Zionism backs Palestinians into a corner from which they can either die in silence and darkness, leave Palestine and accept the erasure of their homeland, or fight back. Then, when they fight back, Zionists audaciously play victim on the world stage. Truly dystopian..'

Should be terrifying to Westerners that the elites of their very own 'democracy' are capable of such heartless actions. What happened to innocent till proven guilty and even if found guilty - the proportionate persecution of the wrong doers, not the whole organisation. By that logic many Western institutions should be de-funded, boycotted by the world and dismantled for the actions of the few glorified gangsters in black suits that are among them ie collective punishment. Israel and its allies successfully moved the conversation from 'a plausible case of genocide ruled by the top world court' to 'we'll cut off aid to the most aid-dependent population who have nowhere to flee and who have just been ruled to be under a plausible genocide - all because of unsubstantiated claims by a state that has been proven to lie many times before'.

The framing from Zionists is that Israel is rewarding Palestinians something rather than returning something they have a right to by international law. It isn't a gift Israel is giving because their so moral and noble but a right of return. Even the UK are now working towards that as Karmadi noted. As far as Hamas are concerned - they aren't the sole reason or root cause of the conflict, but a natural outcome of conflict that arises from Israels denial of Palestinian self determination and dignity. @Nivsch @Karmadhi Interesting discussion about the state borders. I think besides the borders and structure of the state whats also important are the contents of it. Such as security controls, is it militarized or not, is there Israeli presence within it, and the settlement issue is a big one as we can see in the map above. The settlements make it logistically impossible to have a state because of the way they are spread across the land. It encircles Palestinian land making them like ghettos, pockets or like swiss cheese with holes in it. No continuous land area to run a state within, transport goods and services or people, or have ease of access to resources. Would these settlements remain in the protection of Israel? Because that isn't a proper Palestinian state then but an occupation as is already the case.

Same, taking a break just like @kenway Probably will return when some new developments happen but am discoursed out now. Have a good week everyone - and don’t forget to smell the roses.

@Bobby_2021 When you occupy a people, bully them on their own land and deny them their right to self determination and sovereignty, and put them in a pressure cooker environment - you should be prepared for what comes your way. Just like how in Syria 3 US troops have now been killed and many more injured. Their very presence is a invitation to violence and chaos, designed to undermine the legitimacy of a sovereign nation and act as a catalyst for a pre-emptive attack on Iran once one or some of their troops eventually gets taken out by Iran or a Iran backed militia.

According to the highlighted bold words in your post. If they are an apartheid, naturally this will be resisted against. That resistance is then labelled terrorism. If it is easy to identify, why can't you define it? A google search will do, or is that it will lead you to a reality you can't admit to. The point is different people have used different methods of resistance. Vietnamese, Afghans, Algerians, South Africans during apartheid resisted more violently than India, but the point is their resistance is legitimized, their cause is legit, despite the way they conduct it (with violence). You will allow the British to administer, but not control the country. Would you allow the British to have control over India's borders, resources, air space and waters? Exactly. Same for the Palestinians, they are allowed to administer their area, but they don't control it in the way the occupying force of Israel does.

@Danioover9000 Thats a thorough analysis above.

Did Palestinians control their own border of Gaza, water and air space? Define occupation and define terrorism? What are your definitions. Why is it known to be occupied territories globally. Pop your own bubble my friend or the harsh reality of avoiding reality will do it for you eventually.

120 if for the Knesset. 37 are the number of ministers who have more executive power. Out of those ministers 12 went to this event calling for settlement expansion in Gaza which is displacement and ethnic cleansing, which is a subset of genocide, which is ruled as plausible by the ICJ. But okay, lets say 10%. Thats still way more involved in some way (by attending this event) in the crime of ethnic cleansing vs 0.04% of people involved in October 7th. Usually there is a investigation done before someone is prosecuted. In this case it was only a allegation - even then, UNRWA sacked those 12 employees and started a investigation. Lets make it 12 criminals x 10 to make it 120 criminals involved in October 7th. Out of 13'000 workers in Gaza thats just about 1%. So why should a whole organisation that is needed as a life line to people who are undergoing a atrocity be defunded? It's not even being defunded after the atrocity at a separate time but during it and arguably at the most critical time when they need it as validated by the urgency and ruling of the ICJ - the worlds highest court. If you are unable to empathise with Palestinians lets make this a Jewish example. Lets say during the Holocaust and German persecution of the Jews there was a UN agency aiding and helping Jews who have been persecuted, and within this agency there were a few Jewish members who were part of the Warsaw uprising. Now, should the whole agency be defunded because of a small percentage of workers committing crimes which from their point of view was just resistance anyway? Hope you can see the point and how heartless this is.

12 of Israel’s 37 government ministers were at this event. Almost a third - 33%. Should the government stop being funded by US? The same government that is on trial for Genocide. Vs 12 out of 13’000 who work for UNRWA in Gaza (not out of 30’000 total in Middle East which makes the percentage 0.04%) were allegedly involved which is 0.09% of the work force - but they should be de-funded and not a ethnic cleansing, apartheid maintaining government?

@Nivsch Celebrating injustice is sick and wrong. I think what people mean when they celebrated was that they are celebrating the liberation of breaking free from being caged in by Israel - not the deaths and massacring that Hamas were doing that they were unaware of at the time. When wars are won, the winning side celebrate at victory, should they celebrate after so many deaths? Who knows, war is bad for all in general. Unnecessary death over diplomacy. Should Israeli's be celebrating the eradication of Gaza and the settlements expansion in it as the video below shows: One is a celebration of liberation while the other is a celebration of legitimising ethnic cleansing, displacement and settlements. From the same event: Listen to her words. We won’t give the Arabs any food, they will leave, the world will take them. In other words, collective punishment. Shouldn’t this be defunded? This is the leader of the settlement movement, her name is Daniella Weiss.

There are issues in large scale organisations. That doesn't mean its the sole intent of the organisation. If there are a few bad segments within it that are overlooked they should be investigated and persecuted. But that doesn't mean stopping the whole organisation itself which is a life line for Palestinians - especially the day after a plausible case for Genocide has been ruled. UNRWA represents and symbolises the existence of refugees and the right of return for them - this is something Israel doesn't want to exist because it reminds the world of the existence of Israel's wrong actions that led to a refugee situation in Gaza in the first place. They also don't want UNRWA to keep alive the idea of a right to return which they facilitate and that Israel wouldn't want for Gazans to return when expelled from Gaza. Just yesterday there was a event about establishing settlements in Gaza with 12 out of 36 Knesset member present. Should we now defund the Knesset because of this violation? What about Epstein files and mossad connections, should we defund Mossad? How many IDF have committed war crimes? What about all we have seen in the past 3 months with there arrogant tik tok videos and journalists. Should the whole IDF be defunded? Should the US de-fund Israel because it has committed war crimes, been accused of plausible genocide, does ethnic cleansing in West Bank, has someone who Israeli's themselves called a terrorist (Ben Gvir) in their cabinet? This has been done strategically by Israel - released the report and allegation the day of the hearing if it wasn't in their favour (which it wasn't) to distract from it and punish the UN. America is doing Israels dirty work , and now with escalations by the US army casualties in Syria/Jordan they are calling for war with Iran which will have ripple affects globally if allowed to happen. All because the US can't stop Israel from massacring and would rather pursue imperialism and war profits.

There are degrees to things - a spectrum of oppression exists. Were women so oppressed by patriarchy in the past because they couldn’t vote? Did they need to protest and even go as far as the suffragettes who vandalised buildings in protest? The level of resistance is in line with the level of oppression. Resistance doesn't have to exclusively be only to the most extreme absolute versions of oppression and it doesn't deny the fact that some form of oppression is occurring that needs resisting and protesting to. Ethnic cleansing/displacement is still happening whether they live in a nice house in West Bank or not. Fundamental rights, such as right to self determination and right to return are denied. They are occupied and bullied in their own land. By your logic, if a group of people run a society better that entitles them to rule over another group - almost like a colonial argument. If the Japanese run society well and have one of the best economies, is clean, efficient and safe should they rule over other people? Should the British rule India? What’s your definition of terrorism? We should give as much weight to the sociological framework of genocide as we do to the legal framework of genocide, especially considering that the legal framework was established in a manner built to protect the most powerful states in the world from accountability. The legal framework under which we prosecute genocide is limited and has always been limited. It is so limited that not even Germany has ever been convicted of genocide and yet when the Holocaust is denied, we deem it correctly as genocide denialism. - Arnesa Buljusmic-Kustura (Genocide researcher)