zazen

I like that - and it dovetails nicely to what I commented earlier and on the previous page - the distinction between meaning (noima) and meaningfulness (seemasia) Meaning is the outcome of the mind’s engagement with reality - but meaningfulness is the very being of reality itself. The mind's job is to mind, to sense make, find meaning and purpose, which has a path to that purpose, which is a means to that end, and that means gives the meaning. So in this context, there is no meaning, unless we create it and make it, sense make it. But as existence has no end, then there is no means to an end. What's left is not nothing-ness but everything-ness - which is inherently meaningful and significant, despite having no externalised meaning or means to an end. The purpose is in the suchness. The reason Krishnamurti doesn't mind what happens is because he is resting in a meaningfulness beyond the mind. No need to assign meaning when you are awake to meaningfulness. Mind creates meaning, being radiates meaningfulness. He doesn't sense make, but has sensed the maker.

Warped as fuck. As good as Nazis Mind you this isn’t the entirety of Israelis, but the far right extremists. Makes you think - beside other factors that caused an unfounded hatred of Jews in the past - if a subset of them ever had this kind of delusional supremacist attitude - that could be a major contributing factor too.

None till you acknowledged it. Thank you for attending my Ted Talk. Jokes aside - it’s one thing I see plenty of. A spiritual superiority complex against those that haven’t yet “outgrown” this relic of religion. Like Jodistrict touched upon above and even Basmans point that today’s liberal ideas spread religion but were secularised and shed of their religious skin. Ideas like universal love and the dignity of the individual. It’s just cringe to see new agers mock religion not knowing their own roots. They do yoga 3 times a week, eat vegan and re-arrange their crystals at night - but they mock religion lol ironically. I too had my rebellious phase especially after studying Osho. But then I actually came to find more value in religion - understanding it deeper, largely thanks to studying non-duality, Osho, Alan Watts, Ram Dass and of course Leo’s body of work.

@PurpleTree Robert Maxwell was even honoured by Israel with a state funeral and burial on the mount of olives - their holiest burial site. This is despite him being a non-citizen and after being notorious for financial fraud UK. This was pretty good: Also:

Non-dualists act like discovering religious forms are constructed somehow invalidates them, as if pointing out that a cup is made by human hands means it can't hold water. That's what religions trying to do - hold space, contain that which can't be contained - God. Individuals can seek without containers, individually. Advanced seekers can transcend the need for particular containers - but it's not a scalable solution to community. We need something we can gather around. We can't build a community around the concept that concepts or constructs don't matter. The rituals of religion aren't the point - the ritual is the vehicle for the point. But obviously, people ordinarily get stuck on the mechanism rather than what the mechanism is trying to get them to. The issue isn't the container or construct (religion) - it's the consciousness that inhabits the container or construct. A Buddhist monastery can become a place of spiritual awakening or a den of ego's tripping over who mediated longer or sat more still when the bugs bugged them. A seeker can easily do without a container, but a civilization needs one. The point is, once you reach non-dualness, how to trasmit this with duality? You must use constructs even in informing people about that beyond construct and form itself. Even nothingness needs a container to be understood by something. Isn't consciousness exploring what it means to construct? Spiritualist non-dual bros are still living in the same constructed world as everyone else. They're still using their constructed language to have constructed conversations about their constructed spiritual insights.

Yeah, I understand why from a spiritual POV we de-construct everything to get to that which is beyond all construct - to ''Truth'' or God. Spiritual teachers get there via negation - negating all that is ''maya, illusion, or form'' - but then what? Intellectually it can be explained to someone within a few hours - okay fine, everything is a construct, what do you want me to do with that now? I am still a construct, just like you and all of us here, in bodies, using internet and mobiles to communicate to each other in words which are yet again constructs. The point is to live in construct but consciously - or more so to find that there is more to life than just the dual material world of surface, that there is depth and a consciousness within construct, that consciousness encapsulates constructs itself. Form and constructs aren't the ultimate, essential - they are operational and instrumental. In a sense spiritual teachers are correct when they say there is no absolute or fixed meaning - but we shouldn't stop there. There is no meaning, yet everything is absolutely meaningful. We can pick our individual purposes and means to their ends that we live through, but there is a deeper meaningfulness and purposefulness beyond and within all of it too. And that greater meaning and purpose is that the formless already chose that it wants to play through form - form is the love language of the formless. Form is the formality of the formless. We come into the world of duality and form lost, and asking why? Why life, why form? Then we go seeking for answers. We stumble upon the fact that there is that which is formless and non-dual - which is pointed to in various ways via spiritual community or religion (with all their flaws). The point then is to return to form - we are already in form anyway and can't escape it until we leave the body fully - so we return to it with that knowing, eyes and heart wide open. We go from why, to why not? After all, God - the formless, already chose form to exist as itself. Unconscious man never asks why. Curious man asks why? God says why not? Why not form, to inform myself, of myself that is the Self, through multiples selves? Conscious man respond why lets..dance. We come all the way back to where we are meant to be. It's a case of spiritual Stockholm syndrome - seekers and spiritualists become so attached to the idea that everything is illusion (maya), that they start emotionally bonding with nothingness and detachment as if those are the highest truths. Then people easily find them selves in a sort of spiritual nihilism - if all is maya, then what meaning does this world of maya have? I had a period of this too - the sense that I am nothing, all is nothing, all is void. That’s the so called “dark night of the soul” where we exist as astronauts cut from the cord - de-constructed everything, found something, but haven’t had a homecoming with that something. We need to BEcome, or come to BE. I came to realise it’s not void and nothing in the ordinary sense, it's everything , there is a presence there. And I am everything - just wearing this particular face today. I am just you, but over here *waving* hello at you. We are just God eating mangoes. Then I came to rest in being human. I think many teachers saying ''there is no meaning'' stop short. They aren't false, they just need to complete that line of thought by adding that ''yet everything is meaningful''. It reminds me of the Last Samurai movie where the Emperor says ''Tell me how he died'' and Tom Cruise replies ''I will tell you... how he lived.'' The Emporer, just like spiritual egotists and misguided seekers get hung up on the death part - the de-construction part, the death of the self, of ego and form - to a final destination of' ''Enlightenment''. But maybe its not about a destination but a participation in form, along side the formless. In this way, we aren't ''above'' the world, we are with it more fully and awake. What if we get to this destination of God, then God says what the hell are you doing here, go back and participate in form. As the saying goes, before enlightenment, chop wood carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood carry water. Tell me how he died = “Did he reach the formless?” Tell me how he lived = “Did he return and play in form?”

Slaying snake heads apparently Thought the head of the snake was Iran though? Maybe the entire Middle East is like one fat Medusa head to them that they love to play whack a mole with lol On a serious point there weas massacring of minority Druze by extremists and Israel said they want to secure the border from any tensions spilling over + protect minorities. Not sure how attacking the government you’re supposed to normalise with helps stability exactly.

Israel struck Syrias capital just now.

Ironically, the very chains meant to constrain the Jewish people ended up sharpening the tools that later made them disproportionately successful in modern society. Excluded from land ownership = clustered into cities = urbanism lends itself to more ideas, culture, commerce and power = developed and excelled non-physical skills due to being barred from physical domains (craft guilds and agriculture) that later become transferable in a financialised media run world. Today they are over represented in media, academia, finance, law and politics. Those structural constraints combined with their tradition of valuing education and literacy (debate, critical thinking) + group cohesion and wide diaspora networks = successful. No wonder they became wealthy enough to be envied, yet different enough to resented.

Like everyone else has said - it’s a confluence of factors. Jews were exiled from most economic activity so had to revert to moneylending and intellectualism / study which their religion / culture placed value on. Those structural changes never changed until much later, which is why the persecution and pogroms kept occurring for centuries. Imagine being forced into a role, then despised for it when economic downturns inevitably come. Naturally, being in the business of money meant proximity to power - perhaps even a certain influence on power itself. Jews were a minority yet seen as being visibly powerful due to this, plus being concentrated in urban centres near wealthy elites. They were familiar enough due to being widespread across Europe, yet distinct enough to be “other” as they maintained their identity. The historic expectation among the West was to be absorbed, not assimilated into society - the two get conflated. This counters Westerners beliefs about themselves being pluralistic and tolerant in the past. But just as the book Joshe shared on the previous page says - Jews didn’t “absorb” ie lose their identity, which is the expectation. In the Middle East meanwhile they were structurally inside the system, rather than outside it. Even though they weren’t given equal status to the degree we speak of equality today - they were given protected status and recognised as “people of the book”. There was space for them and others. They also weren’t the only moneylenders as Islam provided alternative financial mechanisms and regulation - so couldn’t be scapegoated during hard times. The gasoline on the fire is also theological as Judaism rejects Christ as the Messiah. Whilst theological differences are there between religions - the issue is that they were politicised and weaponised a lot more before. Medieval Christianity viewed Jews as cursed and eternally sinful for rejecting Jesus, while most of the Islamic world viewed them as mistaken cousins. Tensions still existed in the Middle East, but it rarely led to the type of exclusionary or violent pogroms like in Europe. Another point is that they were at the edge of society in intellectual bubbles pushing novelty and new ideas. The past was way more conservative which meant being more resistant to novelty and avant gard type thinking. They were barred from universities and had their own systems of education, ethics and philosophy being built in the back drop of society. So all this intellectual infrastructure was there - which means when modernity came and they were gradually accepted, they dominated most academic fields and were at the forefront of revolutionary thought and movements. Their over representation in all these movements easily gets conflated with them “controlling” all sides and being everywhere in society - but mostly it just them having a diversity of thought amongst themselves, and excelling in the world of thought which they had been involved in over centuries. Today’s Zionism which started as settler colonialism and still continues till today, is obviously where things take a turn. The same pattern of ancient resentment is being triggered today but for very real injustices rather than injustices of the past that were attributed to Jews through association. It’s also easy to view Israels influence on the US today, and retroactively validate ideas about how Jews secretly controlled societies in the past. Israel’s present day behaviour isn’t helping rid these stereotypes at all and is in fact only cementing them.

Debate on Israel at Turning point, itself a turning point. As the thread title mentions deception:

Not looking too good for Israel these days is it

Interesting videos covering each of the power factions listed above: Empire - national security - deep state elite: Capital - financial elite: Cloud - tech elite: Professor just dropped a video which is in line with how I laid out the factions in the previous comment: He ended by mentioning that according to game theory, a dominant players strategy becomes clearer - and in reaction to this a new player emerges to with a counter strategy against the game being played. He mentions Putin as a Ubermensch that disrupts or challenges this game and changes history with it - which he is going to go into in his next video. The dominant player or force driving changes according to him today is Christian Zionism. As I wrote in the previous comment, it’s simply that new player(s) have emerged, not just Putin but Xi Jinpings China which he overlooks. They simply want their own autonomy and place in the world (multipolar) rather than the US wanting the whole world (Uni-polar). They are challenging US empire primacy and Western capitals ability to dictate terms. Perhaps he doesn’t account for China too much because Russia is currently the one most visibly challenging the current game via proxy war in Ukraine, but that doesn’t mean China isn’t synergised with Russia in countering the Western built and dominated game board.

Whoops, rookie mistake from me. Removed the comment.

*Oopsie*

Thanks man. I think that's what it's about, like you said - living in connection to the cosmic. You can still value things, achievement etc but they aren't our gods - they are peripheral, not central. As in, you anchor the human experience in a spiritual experience which is the core of being. That's why I wrote enlightened yet embodied. But to add more context, maybe enlightenment isn't what we're after, or should necessarily strive for. True enlightenment where you dissolve into the light - risks becoming untethered to reality, duality or form. This can be very un-settling. You are so blissed out or shocked by your mental concept of reality shattering - that you sit there stunned and either unable to comprehend it or surrender to it, but surrender from living in the world itself also. At that level you are simply creation, not creating. You exist as a glow, not a overflow. Some masters or ''gurus'' then need to depend on disciples to take care of them, they neglect their bodies entirely. Others return to form and share and act in the world. Whether religions knew it or not, I think this wariness of the spiritual realm is half true in that it can lead to dissolution so totally that it either makes you insane or inert. No doubt there was also just skepticism about it and a power trip to protect orthodoxy, but they aren't entirely wrong - Christianity was wary of mysticism, Judaisim of Kabbalah, Islam of Sufism. Maybe its better to strive for a spiritual life - where you are inspired, in-spirited, embodied yet alive and full of spirit. You don't become the ''light'' or enlightened, you are lighting, charged with spirit - still channeled through the vessel of the body, still embodied and grounded. The point of transcendence isn't to transcend form, but to have the transcendent (soul/spirit/source) transform you within and through form. Then you don't just sit there glowing, but overflowing. Religion in some ways pointed to this - in that a danger lies in blowing out the flame entirely to become the fire in totality. A flame is only held by a candle or a lamp - a vessel, or a form. There is a place for being pure presence, but there is a place also for being a presence that plays in the process of life. Come to think of it, religion didn't even entirely introduce new purposes to humanity - people still had the same ones before hand and pursued them - making a family, a living, being part of community and enjoying life. Religion simply sanctified them and aimed to point to the greater purpose of worldly purposes, therefore providing greater meaning to all these means to their ends, therefore providing a meaning that is endless. And yet, religion still has its trapping and tries to monopolize truth. This is why throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't entirely wise - as in throwing religion into the bin as the new age community does. It's a fine line we must tread.

Pre-emptive rebuttal to “bUt RuSsIA bRoKE iNtErNAtiOnAl LaW” obviously brother! No one should just invade another sovereign nation. But: The abstractness of laws don’t negate the realities of survival. If the worlds imperial (belligerent) superpower literally has think tank pieces on how to “overextend” you through encirclement, including a naughty track record up to the present day - are you to just sit there thinking their creeping up to your border because they want to deliver cookies in person? Maybe Nuland doing so in Ukraine was a gesture of peace towards Russia lol Or maybe you don’t think the Western-US led order has been belligerent but instead has been benevolent. Wonder why we have chants of “Death to America” and an entire parallel financial structure being built by the Global South.

Spot on. It’s insightful to see what happened just two months prior to the invasion: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2021_Russian_ultimatum_to_NATO December 2021 treaties offered, core demands rejected in January 2022, invasion begins February 2022. Core demands still not acknowledged or taken into account - hence the war continues. These core concerns simply don’t exist in the minds of Russophobes, just like the Epstein files don’t exist.

Getting ratioed. Although Dan shouldn’t conflate Judaism with Zionism. The disparity in likes is brutal lol. Why is it even Adam is the one speaking against the Epstein list coming out on PBD - Zionists must know it implicates Israeli intelligence networks via Robert Maxwell etc and they do anything to protect Zioland. The deeper down the rabbit hole we go, the more silent the T gets..jk obviously 😂

In your own words ''the Jews grabbed land connected to their ancestral home'' but then ''what happened before Israel is completely irrelevant'' - its totally relevant when Zionists want to make their case like you just did though. And according to the same logic, Palestinians ''aren't going to let it go'' either, which is why both need to learn to co-exist somehow cos both ain't fuckin leavin lol

@PurpleTree She’s interviewing Nick Fuentes tomorrow. Gonna be interesting - despite his shitty racist views his geopolitical analysis is solid - even though he never acknowledges why the US may want to be doing what it’s doing in the Middle East. His view is that it’s solely Israel wagging the dog that is the US. Some are going in hard on Trump, others are going through hard times about Trump 😂 I definitely think this shatters the myth of Trump the prophet of MAGA - bit similar to how the JFK shooting shook peoples trust in institutions. Trump ran on being the anti-establishment wrecking ball but he just wrecked their entire identity. Elons smelling the opportunity and forming a third party wherever that will lead - 2028 is gonna be interesting for sure. Who knows.. I do feel like a significant proportion of those who voted Trump were protest voting and just hoping on some change - many people are simply politically homeless. Given the opportunity they may jump to a viable third option. Even a 10-20% loss in votes fractures certainty in any of the two uni-parties winning. The bottom line is that the US empire is in retreat - it either lashes out (Trump) or wimpers out (Biden). There’s nothing it can do to stop the relative decline of itself and the relative rise of others who challenge it (BRICS) - short of all out war. Any actions taken to do so only expedite its downfall - make no mistake no matter which party came in power the end result would be the same - it’s only a matter of timeline. Exhibit from just last night: Hilarious to see MAGA folk cheering Brazil fucked around and is finding out. Little do they know lol

Meaning ordinarily is thought to be found in a purpose which has objective ends to be achieved. So we think we find meaning in walking a path, which is a means to an end. But because existence is endless, true meaning and purpose is a means to the endless. The world of form is a formality in which the formless plays. There are meanings and purposes found in the world of form, yet people walking these paths still struggle to find meaning in them. Because as long as you have a means to an end, the meaning will eventually come to an end with it. In the world of form, temporary meaning is found in temporary purposes - once one purpose is fulfilled we look for the next. Child becomes student, student becomes employee, employee becomes boss, boss becomes parent which becomes grandparent - but whats the grand purpose and meaning? In the world of the formless, there is no form to have a utility, to have a means to BE through and a purpose to strive towards, yet it is itself meaningful and purposeful because it is BEing - and being is the ultimate meaning and purpose. So we don't ordinarily walk towards meaning - we are meaning itself walking. Worldly purposes are purposeful and meaningful only because BEing and BEings walk through them. Remember the saying - we are human beings have a spiritual experience? It's also true that we are spiritual beings or BEing itself, having a human experience. The world of form is a formality where the formless plays. If meaning is being, then what is being? Being is be-longing. We have a longing to be, but to be what? Alive itself which is being itself. But alive at what level and intensity? Cosmically of course - as cheesy at that sounds. We fulfill this longing for the whole in parts - along a ladder of belonging which starts in a small circle that expands . First we belong to a family unit, then a tribe, then a nation, then a religion that is larger than a nation - religion is the circle at the threshold between being a circle and demolishing the circle to belong to the cosmic. The tragedy of today is that we have forgotten cosmic belonging while dismantling all smaller belongings - we are't held by any tradition yet are not embraced by the transcendent. We are essentially astronauts with cords cut off, floating in space but not yet at home in space itself - not yet a star among stars, shining bright and alive at the peak - enlightened yet embodied.

The OG on the subject;