Wilhelm44

Nice, 3 simple points. (You're a proper sharp debater. Finally some rest.)

@zurew So just out of curiosity, if Leo stopped calling himself the most conscious person on the planet. And if he qualified his statements about other people's awakenings, by saying that he could be wrong, would that be enough for you not to view this place as a cult anymore ? ie what would ultimately tilt it from being a cult to not being a cult, for you personally ?

Points taken.

Fair enough. (I guess I just got triggered in the moment, I wouldn't want someone describing a suicidal event of mine as proof that I might not be a suitable leader. But I hear what you're saying.)

What additional facts do you have that relate directly to that suicidal moment ?

Kinda like you refusing to answer my original question yesterday. Okay bro, just to make you happy, lets say it wasn't a low blow. Are you able to acknowledge that it's kind of a mute point then, considering that pretty much everyone on the spiritual path go through suicidal moments at one point or another. (Hands up everyone here who have never experienced a single suicidal moment in their life ?) Lets see if you are able to acknowledge that point.

A psychiatrist's office would be a different setting, wouldn't it ? Is Carl a psychiatrist ? Plus that means that most of us here are potentially psychotic, if we have had suicidal moments. A psychiatrist would think that an awake person is crazy to begin with.

Has Leo been evaluated by a psychiatrist who said he had psychotic tendencies ?

Experiencing suicidal moments, at one point or another, is probably part of most people's journey, who are on a spiritual path. But I could be wrong.

Okay bro. I responded to Carl's specific comment in the moment. Still, using an absolute low point in someone's life, like a suicidal moment, to make your point, is not cool. Suicidal moments by their very nature are messy.

I meant that referencing a suicidal moment in someone's life, as part of building your case for potential psychotic tendencies, is a low blow. (suicidal moments can be messy.)

Incorrect. I will say it now clearly for the last time. I only implied that one of his points might be invalid with regards to the psychotic symptom issue. I did not imply that his other points with regards to this issue were invalid. If it makes you happy to believe in your mind that I am a bad faith actor, then go ahead.

Someone else might come along and wobble another leg of the table, who knows, it's a collective debate.

I did not imply that all his points might be invalid. I implied that one of his points might be invalid. That's all.

@zurew Stop being so arrogant/controlling as to how I should respond. I am under no obligation to respond to every every single point. I speak to what I feel I can speak to. And if you recall I acknowledged the issues I did not respond to by saying: "As far as the other issues go, I hope you and Leo sort things out, because I feel he still has some valuable stuff to teach." I made no claims that I somehow solved the whole thing. Ultimately the issues that you have with Leo's behavior, you will only be able to solve directly with him. Your beef is not with me. (Notice that in my interactions with you that you have used this as an excuse to ignore some of the points I made, by simply stating that I will not interact with you until you address all the points I have made, or something to that effect.) Also, I think Carl Richard can speak for himself.

I wasn't aware of this. I think most people here have had suicidal moments at one point or another. Using that as proof of psychotic tendencies is a bit of a low blow. If you're comparing Leo to a cult leader who lost it and decided that one of the members needed to be killed because they have negative energy, then my sense is that you might be underestimating him a bit. As far as the members that got banned, the only name I recognized there was Nahm. From what I recall he seemed to struggle to string together two coherent sentences at times. However conscious or not he may have been, he was mostly confusing to people, so I was not that sorry to see him go. As far as the other issues go, I hope you and Leo sort things out, because my gut says he still has some valuable stuff to teach.

Where is the best place on the internet, for people who are serious about spirituality, to hangout ?

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZbsbW5Mt4b/

Game spoilier:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZgA603ySFK/ Good point ! (People tend to think it's just religion that will crumble.)

What psychotic symptoms are you referring to ? It sounds like you are anticipating Leo to lose it one day and take actualized.org down a dark path ?

Which other spiritual teacher would you say has put out a more comprehensive body of work on the topic of epistemology ? (If we didn't think there was something solid here, none of us would be here in the first place.)

It was not my intention to joke or to be cheeky. Which psychotic symptoms are you referring to ?

Well yeah, ultimately Leo would be the only one able to answer your question as to why it would be necessary to claim to be the most conscious person on the planet.

@Natasha Tori Maru I scanned Leo's comments in the the actualized retreat thread. Is this the quote you were referring to ? "No. I truly am conscious of God. Virtually no one else is. Of course you can't know if that is true. But I'm saying it is true. I am so conscious of God that nothing humans say about God is correct. It's all illusions. And my consciousness of God is not an illusion. Sounds unfair, but that's how it is. It's nothing personal."