Wilhelm44

@Inliytened1 See from 8:20 to around 15:30 (That gives an indication of how life flows through that body/mind system.)

I'm gonna find a clip for you where he describes his experience. Will be back soon.

When I say there is no point, it is not in a nihilistic way. Nothing has inherent meaning or value. When you contemplate this, it is actually quite liberating.

There is no point.

Yes, to escape spirituality itself.

I don't think you have actually heard Jim speak about this. His experience of daily life is very radically different. I will see if I can find a clip for you. There is no one behind the wheel, not just for Jim, but actually for everyone. The illusion is that there's a real character called Wilhelm who's doing this life. Ultimately life is happening automatically.

You misunderstood. Functioning still happens. Thoughts and emotions arise. But there is no Jim character in there to claim all of that as his own. ie it's all impersonal happening. Hence no psychological suffering. But of course physical pain can still occur.

Quite the opposite, there's nothing in his message for the individual, no techniques, no path etc. I'm still listening to Leo and others. I just think it's rare to meet someone where the sense of separate self has fallen away never to return.

I like that, thank you.

Yeah, Tony Parsons. I think he purposely avoids talking about mystical states of consciousness. For him it's about the seeking energy which apparently veils the indescribable mystery. The seeking energy is linked to an apparent character which believes itself to be in separation. His message points out the futility of seeking. Even seeking is the indescribable mystery. For him personally that seeking energy fell away completely. Sense of separation fell away completely. All there is is indescribable mystery. And this is not a state or an experience. I'm probably not doing the message justice, but it's something like that. (You mentioned "hopefully the sense of self comes back". This was not the case for Jim)

I'm not so sure about that. He says "This" is not an experience.

I hear Jim says: It's not an experience. Is it for you like that also ?

Nice, thank you.

According to Jim Newman, for him that sense of separate self disappeared completely, never to return. (It never really existed in the first place.) The way he describes it, is that thoughts and emotions are still happening, but there is no one left to claim them, ie it's all impersonal. So he would still feel physical pain. But no psychological suffering, because there is no one there to claim ownership of thoughts or feelings.

Yeah exactly. But of course you hallucinating that also

How is it possible not to realize God when the sense of a separate self has disappeared permanently never to return ?

I'm pretty sure Jim has realized no self and nothingness as the substance of reality, how come some people here say he is not God realized ?

How can you be absolutely certain that everything disappears while you are sleeping ?

True, would it also be possible to hallucinate that the hallucinated reality still continues in the background while I'm sleeping ?

There's something I'm still trying to integrate for myself. There seems to be a lot of people on the forum who view what, you and Jim and others are saying, as not being the same as proper God realization. Yet it seems that many of these people have not yet had a permanent cessation of the sense of a separate self. My question to them would still be: How exactly is your notion of God different from the indescribable mystery, so called nothingness, that has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond, and which has as its nature, unconditional freedom, unconditional love, unconditional aliveness, infinite beauty etc ?

Aha, I'm feeling something in that, thanks !

All I'm saying is: Is the burn mark on my skin not proof that reality didn't actually disappear while I was sleeping ?

Are you saying alien intelligence is not a possibility ?

But Leo, if I close my eyes, I can still hear the traffic in the distance. When I close my ears, I can still feel the bed. When I remove my sense of touch, and fall asleep, if someone then burns my skin with a hot iron, the next morning there will be a burn mark.