Wilhelm44

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZbsbW5Mt4b/

Game spoilier:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZgA603ySFK/ Good point ! (People always think it's just religion that will crumble.)

What psychotic symptoms are you referring to ? It sounds like you are anticipating Leo to lose it one day and take actualized.org down a dark path ?

Which other spiritual teacher would you say has put out a more comprehensive body of work on the topic of epistemology ? (If we didn't think there was something solid here, none of us would be here in the first place.)

It was not my intention to joke or to be cheeky. Which psychotic symptoms are you referring to ?

Well yeah, ultimately Leo would be the only one able to answer your question as to why it would be necessary to claim to be the most conscious person on the planet.

@Natasha Tori Maru I scanned Leo's comments in the the actualized retreat thread. Is this the quote you were referring to ? "No. I truly am conscious of God. Virtually no one else is. Of course you can't know if that is true. But I'm saying it is true. I am so conscious of God that nothing humans say about God is correct. It's all illusions. And my consciousness of God is not an illusion. Sounds unfair, but that's how it is. It's nothing personal."

Also, on the topic of people going to Leo with their realizations and awakening experiences. I'm pretty sure that if you went to Adyashanti, and told him the details of your awakening experience, he would tell you in no uncertain terms if your realization was not quite as advanced as you thought. Probably in a slightly less brash way than Leo though.

Yeah, I would need more information about the details and context of these conversations to be able to comment. For example, what was the actual disagreement about in each case. Another example: if it's a disagreement that just keeps going around in circles, then Leo kind of has the right to invoke his authority here, it is his school after all. But yeah, one would need transcripts of the actual conversations, otherwise we're just speculating. Going to revisit that thread, thanks.

Does anyone here actually truly buy into the idea that Leo is without a doubt the most conscious being on the planet ? I don't think I've ever seen anyone here literally agreeing with that claim. It's natural to put the teacher on a bit of a pedestal when we start out. And then we outgrow that phase.

I only address the points I feel I can speak to you. And you're right, the DM's and that kind of stuff is between you and Leo. But please refrain from labelling everyone who doesn't agree with the cult accusations as suck ups.

Respectfully, do you think there might be a small chance that you're projecting some past experiential residues onto this one ?

Yeah it's a tricky business. Some things link up, or could be perceived as linking up, with the definition and some things don't. For example: "demanding unwavering loyalty." I think I have heard Leo say many times that we should not just listen to his teachings, but rather we should study the work of many spiritual teachers.

It use to annoy me that there was this guy out there claiming to be the most conscious person in the world. Somehow I don't even think about that anymore. Not quite sure how that happened

@Natasha Tori Maru Thank you.

I'm just curious, in this whole discussion I have been asked a couple of times now to state my definition of a cult. Is there really no officially accepted definition of a cult out there ?

I hear you. I remember Leo saying something to the effect of: there is no such thing as a good cult. What do you think ?

Thank you, yeah my gut says we're okay.

I play tennis every week with 3 other guys. I wouldn't say that group is on the cult spectrum.

I don't know, I think the spectrum thing is a bit of a cop out when it comes to defining a cult. That means literally every group in the world is partly cult.

It's tricky because so many things can point to potential cultish behavior, but at the same time it can also have nothing to do with cultish behavior. I mentioned the fact that a few mods were hammering on Leo's remarks about telling Carl Richard that these cult accusations is making him feel that he doesn't even want to teach him anymore. And I acknowledged that Carl Richard felt personally threatened at the time. Simultaneously though there have been so many instances in my life when I have heard frustrated teachers utter the exact same words with regards to an unruly class, ie absolutely no cultish intentions present. @Natasha Tori Maru And I haven't seen any of the mods acknowledge the fact that they could have been wrong in their interpretations there.

Well yeah if you look at the example of the cult mentioned by @Carl-Richard, it started out as a regular meditation group and then somehow morphed into a cult. So what to do (spoken with an Indian accent.) Do you think you're in a cult ?

Is there any spiritual group out there who has been better prepared than this one, to look out for the faintest signs of cultish behavior though ? I think you'd be hard pressed to find one. Probably worth acknowledging that as well. The fact that we having this storm in a teacup is proof of that.

Nice, that should solve all our problems here