Wilhelm44

I am curious, on what specific spiritual truth/realization issue, do you disagree with Leo the most on ?

What is it that you want from Leo tho ? I mean imagine if you went and challenged Adyashanti for example. Do you really expect him to abandon his own realization and just go: "Yeah, I can see how you could be right." Probably not going to happen, is it ?

Yeah, but the original point is that you framed all these complaints in cultish terms. The fact is that you are completely free to have whatever realizations you want and no one will stop you here. The style that the teacher uses in disagreements is a different story, and merits some discussion. I'm sure Leo will respond if you stick to the actual complaints, without throwing the cult insinuations in right off the bat.

I think the point is that if you disagree with the teacher, why even try to get the teacher to verify your position, it's probably not going to happen, is it ? If you have a realization that's different, then so it is, it's fine.

Aha, I hear you. Would be curious to hear @Leo Gura's response to this ?

I don't think people realize how unique this forum actually is. Do you think at a Tolle or Spira or Adyashanti etc meeting you'll be allowed to full on challenge them on their realizations ? You'll probably just be redirected by the organizer to ask a question. There's a whole bunch of people here with different flavors of realizations and I honestly don't feel pressured to agree with Leo on everything. If you find yourself constantly challenging the teacher in some way, then maybe the time has come to be a teacher yourself, or maybe not, who knows.

Spot on.

Thank you, I am busy reading through the links you shared. I don't think you answered my full question though. I acknowledge that you felt manipulated. And I'm sure Leo has some blind spots in the way he goes about things. But my question was, did you feel manipulated "for nefarious purposes" ? ie to be financially, sexually or otherwise literally exploited in some way. Or was it ultimately just Leo defending his position in a not so enlightened way.

I didn't think of that. You're already planning your own breakaway cult, aren't you ?

I hear you, it's a complicated matter, and I'm sure I don't have all the info. I'm a simple man, and I feel there is also some value in being direct and to the point. Can you honestly say that you feel unsafe, or manipulated for nefarious purposes, here in any way ?

Bro I addressed one of your points and you didn't respond. I assure you my brain is working fine. You're the one who's beginning to sound like a bit of a dick now.

I grant you that, Leo is rough around the edges, when it comes to responding to people with different realizations than him. But think about it, what does he have to gain by doing so. He'll probably just piss some people off who end up leaving. He's not nefariously trying to manipulate you to stay here forever. Cults tend to live together, and manipulation is used to keep the thing going. Seems like all the behaviors you guys are complaining about, will just cause some people to leave. That doesn't make sense if you really wanted to have a cult, now does it ?

So you are acknowledging that I successfully addressed at least one of your points of criticism. Bring on the rest. (I assume I was successfull because i heard no counter argument from you. All I heard was annoyance at me addressing one point at a time.)

Of course, this is so serious, that it's too much effort for you just to spell out in a nutshell why you feel this is a cult. I asked unborn tao the same strait forward question and all he could do was to refer me to some teal swan thread. I bet you wont answer me either.

So scary being in this cult bro. Im not sure how I'm going to get out of it.

Oh God, please remind me, what is the actual criticism in a nutshell ?

And that one thing i mentioned triggered you for some reason. If this place is a cult then no place isn't. It's just an online forum for God's sake, you're free. No one said Leo was perfect, but Jesus man, calling this a cult is a bit of a stretch.

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZYJ5Xih_ym/

I mean relaxation of the mechanisms that are happening on behalf of the character, like anxiety, worry, control, paranoia, resistance etc. Since I really began to sense that the character is not real, its been feeling like a nice unravelling, like when the wrappings around a mummy just keep on rolling off freely.

It's so silly to yell 'cult' just because the teacher isn't tiptoeing around your realizations. Where are you going to go to any well known teacher like Adyashanti or whoever, and tell them, you are wrong buddy, and then they just go, oh yeah okay i guess you are right. If you're that confident in your pov, then start ur own thing, and see who resonates.

@Olaf There are many examples of teachers through the ages who have realized themselves as God or the Absolute, without going down the road of zen devilry.

Sure, your human can't choose to make the sun not rise tomoro, would be anarchy if everyone could do that. But why is the first thing we associate with God this ultimate authority thing. Seems a very human way of thinking. Can you simply feel God as the aliveness in your veins. But truly, if ultimately you are not God (having a human experience), then what are you ?

Hooray