Wilhelm44

Incorrect. I will say it now clearly for the last time. I only implied that one of his points might be invalid with regards to the psychotic symptom issue. I did not imply that his other points with regards to this issue were invalid. If it makes you happy to believe in your mind that I am a bad faith actor, then go ahead.

Someone else might come along and wobble another leg of the table, who knows, it's a collective debate.

I did not imply that all his points might be invalid. I implied that one of his points might be invalid. That's all.

@zurew Stop being so arrogant/controlling as to how I should respond. I am under no obligation to respond to every every single point. I speak to what I feel I can speak to. And if you recall I acknowledged the issues I did not respond to by saying: "As far as the other issues go, I hope you and Leo sort things out, because I feel he still has some valuable stuff to teach." I made no claims that I somehow solved the whole thing. Ultimately the issues that you have with Leo's behavior, you will only be able to solve directly with him. Your beef is not with me. (Notice that in my interactions with you that you have used this as an excuse to ignore some of the points I made, by simply stating that I will not interact with you until you address all the points I have made, or something to that effect.) Also, I think Carl Richard can speak for himself.

I wasn't aware of this. I think most people here have had suicidal moments at one point or another. Using that as proof of psychotic tendencies is a bit of a low blow. If you're comparing Leo to a cult leader who lost it and decided that one of the members needed to be killed because they have negative energy, then my sense is that you might be underestimating him a bit. As far as the members that got banned, the only name I recognized there was Nahm. From what I recall he seemed to struggle to string together two coherent sentences at times. However conscious or not he may have been, he was mostly confusing to people, so I was not that sorry to see him go. As far as the other issues go, I hope you and Leo sort things out, because my gut says he still has some valuable stuff to teach.

Where is the best place on the internet, for people who are serious about spirituality, to hangout ?

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZbsbW5Mt4b/

Game spoilier:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZgA603ySFK/ Good point ! (People tend to think it's just religion that will crumble.)

What psychotic symptoms are you referring to ? It sounds like you are anticipating Leo to lose it one day and take actualized.org down a dark path ?

Which other spiritual teacher would you say has put out a more comprehensive body of work on the topic of epistemology ? (If we didn't think there was something solid here, none of us would be here in the first place.)

It was not my intention to joke or to be cheeky. Which psychotic symptoms are you referring to ?

Well yeah, ultimately Leo would be the only one able to answer your question as to why it would be necessary to claim to be the most conscious person on the planet.

@Natasha Tori Maru I scanned Leo's comments in the the actualized retreat thread. Is this the quote you were referring to ? "No. I truly am conscious of God. Virtually no one else is. Of course you can't know if that is true. But I'm saying it is true. I am so conscious of God that nothing humans say about God is correct. It's all illusions. And my consciousness of God is not an illusion. Sounds unfair, but that's how it is. It's nothing personal."

Also, on the topic of people going to Leo with their realizations and awakening experiences. I'm pretty sure that if you went to Adyashanti, and told him the details of your awakening experience, he would tell you in no uncertain terms if your realization was not quite as advanced as you thought. Probably in a slightly less brash way than Leo though.

Yeah, I would need more information about the details and context of these conversations to be able to comment. For example, what was the actual disagreement about in each case. Another example: if it's a disagreement that just keeps going around in circles, then Leo kind of has the right to invoke his authority here, it is his school after all. But yeah, one would need transcripts of the actual conversations, otherwise we're just speculating. Going to revisit that thread, thanks.

Does anyone here actually truly buy into the idea that Leo is without a doubt the most conscious being on the planet ? I don't think I've ever seen anyone here literally agreeing with that claim. It's natural to put the teacher on a bit of a pedestal when we start out. And then we outgrow that phase.

I only address the points I feel I can speak to you. And you're right, the DM's and that kind of stuff is between you and Leo. But please refrain from labelling everyone who doesn't agree with the cult accusations as suck ups.

Respectfully, do you think there might be a small chance that you're projecting some past experiential residues onto this one ?

Yeah it's a tricky business. Some things link up, or could be perceived as linking up, with the definition and some things don't. For example: "demanding unwavering loyalty." I think I have heard Leo say many times that we should not just listen to his teachings, but rather we should study the work of many spiritual teachers.

It use to annoy me that there was this guy out there claiming to be the most conscious person in the world. Somehow I don't even think about that anymore. Not quite sure how that happened

@Natasha Tori Maru Thank you.

I'm just curious, in this whole discussion I have been asked a couple of times now to state my definition of a cult. Is there really no officially accepted definition of a cult out there ?

I hear you. I remember Leo saying something to the effect of: there is no such thing as a good cult. What do you think ?

Thank you, yeah my gut says we're okay.