fopylo

So before I've came across actualized.org I've been learning a bit from some stage orange Youtubers and some books. But after having watched some of Leo's videos it almost feels like I automatically outgrew some of those advices with the ones Leo provided. However I don't know if it's the best thing, here are examples: You hear about building your identity and strengthening it by repeating affirmations - when we identify with something we create limitations and suffering You hear about motivating yourself by avoiding pain and being drawn to pleasure - "ego" stuff. It can't be very sustainable I guess You hear about the 6 needs for human fulfillment by Tony Robbins - Those are "requirements" you need to become fulfilled. It is still in the survival state You hear about hard self discipline and commitment to your results - It just causes you to be more neurotic and creates a deeper split within yourself. You are also attached to an outcome I could go on and on... But this creates quite a bit of confusion for me, it's like many paradoxes. Now I might be very wrong and getting everything messed up in my mind. I'm trying to somehow connect the dots between everything I'm learning and trying to find some higher truths. This gets me to fill more stuck. It is hard for me to accept all what Tony Robbins (and other success gurus) is saying and also what Leo is saying. Some of the things seem to contradict each other

@Waken It's hard because of all those resistances I've created because I'm always thirsty for the bigger picture and want to evolve to the highest stages possible. I feel like this is still a Stage Orange mentality I have which I feel is serving me both good and also not so good

@Elevated I mean, there is literally no other way to see the object. There is literally no seeing without light, so we can forget about this sense altogether without light. You could also go further and ask - well, maybe everything here is not real since it's an interpretation of the mind (sounds, visuals, touch)? Maybe those things don't even exist but our mind makes it look like it does? (it is hard for me to believe that). But then you can also ask "what if our minds are actually projecting to ourselves what is in fact real, and not just a mere interpretation? (and to take this question seriously). Even if the conversion is imperfect, how does it help? I mean, how can you experience what might be the real deal behind what the mind is capable of delivering? (We do it through the mind though). I get what you say about having cognitive biases which prevent you from opening your mind to understand things deeper, or to see the bigger picture. So if it will never be perfectly accurate, then what's the point in even talking about it? It's sounds kinda sad lol

@Elevated I understand what you said about Paris, but I can't really apply this metaphor to reality. From what I understood you say that all what I'm experiencing is not everything I can actually experience now? I was reading that like "ok I see, to dive into stage orange without giving it a meaning that I'm better than it, ok" and then you hit with the "while knowing it's all bullshit" haha, this is exactly the problem. It's hard for me to start a business or something like that because I feel like I understand higher things and that "I'm better". I know you can say to take only the important elements of stage orange, but I feel that in general I don't have so much passion for creating a business (in fact, a book publishing business - That's because I've lost passion to publish books on "low stage orange topics" forgive this way of saying but I'm trying to be honest). Don't you get also this weird feeling of diving into something you believe you've outgrown already?

@Elevated How can I have practices to focus on while knowing that it is all bullshit? lol But what do you mean by "the map is not the territory"? I mean, we kind of use maps to navigate through life if I understood what you're meaning by maps. Also, the main issue I was bringing up is about the integration of all other stages since some of them contradict each other. There are many paradoxes, and the more I learn, the more paradoxical it seems. Not gonna lie, it scares me a bit, yet I know there's no way back so I feel stronger. But still I feel the need to resolve paradoxes because it really creates barriers for me to continue with my life

@Elevated But the thing is that the Stage Orange mindset contradicts the mindsets and teachings that Leo talks about. Most of the things that have to do with the ego and deeper reasons for why you aren't fulfilled aren't even addressed in Stage Orange. I would like to earn more money but every time I get this ambitious feeling I tend to suppress it very quickly because it seems "un spiritual", "ego's doing", or anything like that. Taking the good stuff from Stage Orange won't be so much mindsets I guess... Like half of them are self harming and strengthening the ego

@Nahm What do you mean by "adding in perspective"?

Hi, so for a very long time I've been feeling very lonely, and took for me sometime to really understand this. I used to suppress this feeling all the time thinking that one day it will not be like that. Recently I've stumbled across Leo's video of how to deal with loneliness which really really opened my eyes. So I've tried doing it. For the last few days I've been traveling with my bike and practiced being alone with myself for a long time. This is when I truly realized what Leo meant by "connecting with Being". It felt like I'm coming back home or something, like I'm getting back to a truer version of myself which felt amazing. It really opened my mind also to the fact that my ego thinks that having those dreading feelings of loneliness and depression means I need to seek friends, a girlfriend, or someone or a group of people to fill this hole. But in actuality, when I am faced with an opportunity to open up to a friendship I tend to fall back - which made me realize that my ego is really deluding me. The problem is that I am disconnected to Being, which I believe is the real thing I desire, which my ego thinks otherwise. Sorry for going for a little rant, I'm now getting to the point. So I've also always had social anxiety (as far as I remember it started to develop when I was like 12 and now I'm 18). My question is - will this technique of going solo to bask in my solitude help me? I mean, I understand why practicing this act of loneliness can be beneficial, but I've also heard that in order to overcome social anxiety or any fear you must practice facing it. I would like to get some advice on what to do in this confusing situation please. Currently, practicing this loneliness makes me feel more real and like "this is supposed to be what I'm after" feeling which I can't really explain, but I don't know if my social anxiety will go away. Sorry for making it too long ? (this is my first post)

@Loving Radiance lol you just pointed out 2 contradicting things I said. I seem to be tricking myself here. But I still don't have such clarity on what I want to achieve. Even when I do have something that I'm considering on accomplishing then I have those walls of unconscious belief systems, resistance, victim identity, procrastination, and anyway to distract myself using very firm excuses. I'll get to this dream board sometime later. Just started a holiday so I will consider looking into it. Many things that have to do with goal setting, creating a vision for the life you desire, what do you want out of life, and all that create overwhelming in me and I tend to avoid digging into it too much

@Nahm I guess what you said is true. But it can be really hard to accept it in practicality. You see all those gurus - Eckhart, Sadhguru, Osho... And you don't see them behaving like some stage red/orange behavior, so I kind of built an image unconsciously of what it means to be spiritual. No one really teaches you this. This duality is very tricky. It's basically erasing the category and meaning of "spiritual" and instead saying that all of what's going on is just life together, and the notion of "spirituality" was created by those who didn't understand it and created this duality. So basically there is no such thing is "spiritual" teachings and teachings which are not. It is kind of paradoxical. I believe at some stage you just drop this word

@Woke456 Well it still doesn't help me with the fact that it is paradoxical in my mind

@Jiri Kuokkanen What you're saying is true, but here's the thing - The examples you gave are great in and of itself. However, now there is to take into consideration if those are "wants" or "needs", if it is to prove your self worth or enjoy the game, you gotta master your inner psychology as a fundamental to all success, you gotta connect to Being and to your true nature in order to really feel fulfilled and recognize that this is what you were really after, there is happiness and there is success. I could go on and on. Basically what I'm saying is that in Stage Orange teachings you're missing many essential elements that you MUST develop and understand in order to see the bigger picture and what you're really after. There are lot's of paradoxes and so it's really heavy on the mind to try and connect the dots

@Elevated You got it right, pretty much. I'm having a hard time accepting Stage Orange materialistic advice because I've heard advice from Leo that goes far beyond it. But I don't know if dismissing this materialistic advice is a good decision because I guess there are some truths in them. My mind just has a hard time digging in and connecting the dots to what Leo said in order to find universal truths

@Loving Radiance You mean the state of being grounded? Also, I want to let you know that it is not clear to me. I'm asking questions because I want to understand it first mentally (at least the basics). And I also don't know what I want to do right now. I am distracting myself because I feel clueless on what to do next

@EddieEddie1995 Yeah so that's the thing, it's hard for me to really open myself up to the ideas that Tony Robbins is giving that contradict Leo's more absolute teachings. Like you said - "contradiction is just a different perspective that is relatively true", that's the thing - I'm trying to find the truths within all those stage orange teachings. This is a hard process like you said. It doesn't entail removing all orange teachings, but rather finding the truths in them which will grow me and deconstruct my ego simultaneously. Yeah, just like you said. I am surely getting myself into serious stuff. And the problem is that there's no way back lol

@Loving Radiance If so, then why would someone want to be successful and live the good life? What will drive him to live his passion and become ambitious if all experiences are valued the same? You might as well not do anything in life and be content, but is sounds kind of depressing

@Nahm I mean, if I start on overwhelming, then do I need to advance to frustration and until I get to Joy? Like, sometimes I just want to be relaxed (not overwhelmingly relaxed and excited lol). By ecstasy feeling I mean that it is very overwhelming in the moment. Sometimes I have those moments when I'm very highly conscious and start journaling a lot/ recording a note and it feels like my mind is rushing with more insights about myself and life, but then it takes quite a while for me to get back to my "normal" state. It is not so comfortable being in those states, although I get most of my insights in this state. But I still didn't understand how to immerse myself in a so called "un-spiritual" emotion.

@Nahm Alright so I went through all what you wrote about the emotional scale, but have a few questions: How long should I stay on each emotion? (Like do I need to advance more and more until I reach Joy?) Do I need to approach each emotion as the end, right? (not as a means to an end, otherwise I'll create resistance to this moment) Anger/rage and sadness (but mostly anger) are very hard for me to get immersed in. It could happen to me rarely, but when I notice it I quickly suppress it, and so it last for just like a second. So how can I immerse myself in it? Especially with anger, it feels "un-spiritual", "not conscious". With sadness it could last maybe like 3 seconds but then I try to reinterpret it and use logic and monitor myself to feel sadness, but then it just feels mechanical. I also want to note that I've just recently finished watching a video of Leo, and usually when I get into those introspective states I feel very conscious. And so I am not exactly managing to get a hold of what I'm feeling. I feel kind of content because I feel at more peace, but I don't want to go further on the scale because it will be too much for me. but I also feel very overwhelmed from it, but I can't find really something to be frustrated about. In general it's a bit hard for me to assess my emotions, now that I have this scale. In regards to the awareness of thoughts meditation, I basically focus on my breath and when a thought comes I try to gently push it aside and refocus on my breath. Are the effects the same? I'm asking because you specifically suggested this type when referring to an issue I said. And in regards to the dream board, I haven't gotten to it yet. I have been working my way though other stuff (like the emotional scale, watching actualized.org), and I am kind of feeling overwhelmed from all of this knowledge. I will get to it eventually and update. Lately I have more of these ecstasy moments of insights and journaling and turning inwards, which gives me a quite uncomfortable high, which takes a while for me to get to my normal state. The only way I can think of reducing it is by watching some series, entertainment or doing some other lower consciousness thing just so I could reduce this overwhelming.

@Loving Radiance I do mindfulness meditation every morning where I focus on my breath. I make sure to understand better that I'm going through a thought, but when I'm physically scratchy, then I scratch. How? ? By meditating and practicing more mindfulness? So basically you are saying that all experiences are valued the same if you can experience the all from a ground level?

@Nahm (Oh my gosh I refreshed it by mistake so I need to write it from the beginning, ughh) Yeah but it's not like I'm experiencing the original emotion I had. I have this resistance which is very tricky because it gets me to dissociate from my experience. I knew I had to rephrase that. I meant like uncomfortable feelings and unease. So lately I've been really up-ing my game in meditation practice. I meditate around 30-60 minutes everyday, do 9 minutes of liberation kriya yoga, ride my bike a lot to focus on body, environment and includes solo traveling. I have recognized a bit of a change but not too big. I feel like my mind is still active and trying to interpret my experience as I'm experiencing. But when they arise they come in a form of future, like "I want this to happen sometime in a future point in time". What if I want wealth, great relationships, to travel around the world? Also, if a desire just pops up in my mind, maybe it could be just a quick short term attachment but I might discover later that I don't even want it.. And why should I not think about it? Don't I need to get clear on what I want? Why would I not want? You'll need to explain to me how it is perfect ?

@Nahm I didn't quite understand this. I mean, sometimes the reason I don't engage in getting angry, sad, frustrated is because I am kind of judging myself as a more "conscious/high level being" and I believe that at this level I should be able not to be easily moved by those triggers. But I believe it's also because of the social conditioning from the environment and family. So it's not exactly that I'm resisting the negative feelings of anger, sadness and frustration, but rather resisting the image of myself being pulled down and controlled by those emotions and be like "oh, so your ego is controlling you". I listened to the commercial, quite nice How is it fragmenting my experience? And what is it like to have a whole experience? I didn't also quite understand what you were trying to say about humor. Why should I practice humor. There is humor of laughing at other things out of insecurity, but never heard of a higher reason to laugh (from the surprisingly beauty of life which is shocking?) By writing down what I do want, do you mean material possessions? Honestly what's in my mind now is to just be free, do the things I always wanted to do but felt resistance, even overcoming the resistance to do this task you said lol. What did you mean by not "looking for answers in thought"? Don't I need to think about what I want and vision for the future? I feel like I need you to explain again this blast with reality, and making sense of creating a vision without thinking (?) ? Isn't this kind of like suppression and self monitoring? So then why would I want to create a dream board or vision board? It's not like as if it will come into existence in the exact second I'm creating this board.

@zeroISinfinity God's plan... As time goes by I'm starting to really feel as if I'm going through the narrative I know beyond knowing. It might sound a bit odd but ever since I was a little kid I always thought there was kind of an early plan for my life, as if it was planned before I was born, or maybe a continuation of my past lives. I had the feelings and the ideas of what I might be experiencing - it might be something scary, fighting against a lifelong enemy, being at the scariest point in my life, super motivated and excited to be on top of the world, living blissfully with purpose, reuniting with an old friend, rediscovering myself. As time went on I've started realizing that those abstractions were conveying more nuanced things that are happening in my life. My life long enemy (my mind), scariest moment to overcome and then live blissfully (I believe awakening/enlightenment). In general I feel VERY GRATEFUL in a different way, like I truly feel like everything is happening perfectly and just falling on my lap as part of the narrative - as if God is biased or something. When you mentioned "God's plan" I was excited in knowing I wasn't the only person feeling like God is really planning something (obviously I'm not talking about it in religious terms). This is amazing. Sometimes I almost get very emotional in just thinking to myself "wait, hold on. Could it really be that I'm going to be from those people who are going to live their best lives? Is my life literally going to be like some protagonist going through an adventure like you see on TV? Why is my life going according to the plan? Why me? Why is it that I get to feel like I got one of the best lives to unfold and others might not? Feels a bit unfair. I was born in the right era in the right time with the right technologies with the right people, this is insane. What is so special and deserving about me that I got that? Why am I gifted with many talents? (sorry for the brag, it's for the sake of being honest and from what people have tolled me) I don't understand why my brother or someone else has such leverage like me. However I still have many obstacles and fears in my path which not many people have... Could it be that this is part of the plan that God planned for that I will become very strong, go on the spiritual path, awaken, move out of my mind and live a great life? Thanks for assuring me that those thoughts are more public than I thought

I know I have been quite late with a response..? @Loving Radiance Anyways, I don't quite understand how is this supposed to help. Like how do you do it and the idea behind it. I mean, I really like this idea. In some sense it feels true. But could you explain a little more? And like how to do you get into this "paradise"

@Nahm Sorry for a very late response (usually I would prefer writing when I feel at a higher state of awareness, which isn't all the time). So now I've realized that I really tend to hold myself to my past and I fear change in myself. As an example - I wake up, do my morning routine (meditate, healthy breakfast, some brain training), and then - I'm stuck. I'm very used to spend the day thinking about how I need to improve (and reinforcing the victim identity). I have bigger goals, but I am used to think that I need to overcome more obstacles before I can start. I have dreams of creating music, having a business, and more that don't often pop up... There is a lot of unconscious fears and distractions that I tend to have. Basically I am at a state where I've dipped myself in spiritual teachings, and so now I'm somehow trying to intermingle the self help teachings with spirituality and it makes me even more confused and hard to start. Let's say affirmations - people use it to create a self image/empowering identity for themselves, but in spirituality they teach that not having an identity and not attaching to anything will make you the happiest. The same goes with having beliefs about certain things. Also striving for success vs striving for happiness. The combination of spiritual mastery and material success seem contradictory and paradoxical to integrate them together. So let's say I'm really angry, sad, shocked, curious, or feeling like doing a devilish act - Then what should I do about it? In most cases I suppress those feelings because it feels very unconscious (inferior) and 'low level', and yet I feel like I might be doing something wrong. If this is the case, then we can basically say that all emotions and expressions are ok, and resistance is what creates the notions of "good/bad feelings", which is an illusion? I feel like I'm getting sense of some truth I've been longing to resolve. I've believed for a long time that experience in itself is way better than no experience, even if the experience is frustration or anger or some other not so comfortable feeling Isn't this sort of an attachment to an outcome? Because I desire a certain vision, but I might then resist anything else that isn't aligned with this dream life.

@Loving Radiance Yeah, so since I've started learning more about this issue it has been easier for me to recognize what I want more in my life - I want to experience more, to feel more, the freedom to be unconscious, to be more centered/collected, to feel good on my own, to have a stronger locus of control. I didn't quite understand what you meant by that: Oh and this part... (continuation) I feel that for the simplicity of feeling connected to their presence is something that I tend to resist so much. Lately I have been practicing being more honest with my thoughts, feelings and desires with people I know. However I still notice that in the exact moment of sharing I tend to go back to dissociation and become unconscious. So basically I'm sharing things which were from the past (even if like a day ago, or an hour ago), and never really from the exact present moment. I don't feel like I'm directly speaking what's rising in me at the moment, but rather delivering past information (and probably even altering it a bit) while feeling disconnected and not speaking from my center. I like to imagine it as like a kid who is sharing his true feelings in the moment to his friend/parent/person (what I'm aiming for). From what I understand now, there isn't really a bad emotion. In fact, what I wish is to have the freedom to feel anything, even if it is anger and sadness. What I consider the real bad feeling is that of resistance, which can be attached in any situation to any feeling. This resistance, those fears, all this fricking illusion is what I really want out of my life. As I'm progressing with this work I start to shift my perspectives a bit about what I'm trying to achieve and what I'm trying to avoid. I do think many times that external things can help solve the problem, including feelings I'll get from external things. I feel by now that what I really need is to let go of the resistance, since I'll never find this paradise I'm looking for. It will always seem further and further, even if I'm starting to feel and design a plan in my head, it will just make it feel more convincing