Miguel1

Yes, you could be very correct here. You did have the ”hate men” on quotation marks, so it can be much softer than what hating men really is. As for her message to you, it sounds good. I would just becareful it is not just to keep things professional, but truthfully deep down she is repressing.

I would also prefer the older girls as they are more mature, IF they have done the work and have integrated. But goddammit most of them just doesnt cut it for me physical attractiveness wise. And lots of them haven’t done the work either, the shit has just compounded if anything. Now, if I grew older with her and her looks faded, then I am sure it wouldnt matter.

This is the issue. It is not a matter of ”if”. It is a matter of conscious intention.

Of course small talk is part of it. But should it last for the majority of the date? Or just the initial moments? I am not trying to put you down, the fact that you even think so is a problem. I am just genuinely confused. Notice, feelings are part of your truth. Not the whole truth.

PUA is toxic? Shocking.

If you think I haven’t spend years of my damn life going through my deepest and inner demons, fears, selfishness, self-deceptions and biases, I don’t know what the hell have you been reading, as I have been extremely vulnerable sharing my journey on this forum. But of course, if you are committed to seeing me as the problem, you will not see anything else, especially yourself as the problem. I admit I am not happy with my dating and I am trying to fix it, sharing my lessons here, asking for thoughts and open conversation, and overall being vulnerable, yet respectful — but I am faced with accusations of ego and having holier than thou mindset. What in the world. Becareful you guys are not living in your mutually created bubble, where Miguel is too egoistical to admit his short-comings. I have also talked to Aurum on phone recently. In there we seemed to agree, but here he seems to be against me. Hopefully not because it is just popular. There are people who support me on this, but they are more quiet and do so more via pms. Just becareful guys that when publicly you guys love to gather and go against me together, that it isn’t just bias and a self-defense mechanism to actually look deeper within yourself, and to actually be open to what I have to say. - - - - - At the end of the day, I am simply trying to have more honest, truthful, authentic, and vulnerable conversations and connections with people I meet. I am not claiming that I am Alien God.

I reject that first dates should be about hobbies, news and mainstream pop. Random talks that leads nowhere. I am surprised this is even rised. Perhaps that’s why we have so much misunderstanding. I expect us to have a certain mutual understanding of what depth, maturity, self-awareness, and integration means — for we are in such a forum, dedicsted deeply to said topics. Why are you even bringing up feelings? Since when have I implied I am looking for feelings? If anything, I am pushing for raw truth more so than feelings.

Oh you mean the things I am pushing right now, since I am trying to deconstruct the PUA paradigm?

Of course you can nitpick things. In a conversation like this where 10 different people are posting at once, you respond whenever you have time (and might have forgotten some details), might be in different emotional state etc etc. A lot of my answers are in the middle of my work days. A lot of times I thought I had more time to answer, but end up having to rush things. And the less obvious ones: when lots of people criticize you (whether they are legit or poor criticism / lack of respect), they will affect your mood. And that will affect my own delivery. It is bound to lead to lots of misunderstanding. That’s why I wanted to have a 1 on 1 call with you, and you agreed to it but never showed up, nor got back to me for re-scheduling. To use your signature as an inspiration: it is easier to blame others, than to look at yourself in the mirror. A proper call would solve most of the misunderstanding, if not all. - - - - - As for your trust question: again, it is such a vague question I don’t know how to answer other than there are certain things I trust in myself, and certain things I don’t — and anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit.

When you are the bigger person, the more mature, you have more responsibility. If you fancy yourself as such, that is.

The PUA paradigm teaches you to date 5-10 girls at once for months and months, before you drop everyone and just focus on one, when she has proved her worth to you. They call this abundance. I call it insecurity, and a huge waste of time and energy. I used to do it a lot so I know exactly how much time was wasted, and how I truly felt deep down. This is what I am mostly speaking against.

Too much split in her psyche. Notice how hard she fell for OP, so fast. This is way too unhinged and unsustainable. She does not have a stable mind. With that information, I actually think Zenterus is in deeper shit than what I originally thought. She will triple and quadriple down on hating men after this, and the hatred will be pointed towards him.

I used to do salsa and bachata but left the circle (as it’s fairly small here in Helsinki) because we did it with my ex, and I basically gave the whole social circle to her out of love, as we decided to do no-contact. It’s a big joy for her. My own dance style is my main joy, whereas latin dances were hers. The key is not to go for the tens. Go for the 8-9. More so 8 than 9, and do not go for 18-21 years olds. Even 22-23 are too young, but there are more exceptions here. 24-25 minimun, and 26-27 max as I don’t want them to be too old either. Also, their clothing style says a lot. With some girls, you can just tell they are chaotic and unintegrated as hell. But also, the other extreme is those status signaling dressing. The ideal is when a girl has some uniqueness and individuality in her dressing, yet is not chaotic in it. In the festival I am attending, there’s a lot of stage orange girls inflirtating and taking pictures for status symbol. ALL THESE GIRLS LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME. What the fuck. They dress the same, they have the same make up, and they look the same (exaggerating a bit here). How is dating apps yielding you results? Do you screen with your bio at all, or is it optimized for ”results”? I feel like dating apps could be very high numbers game, without me having to put much effort, so I could really screen hard initially with my bio.

Huge red flag. HUGE. Unintegrated, too much shadows and traumas.

What? I am literally advocating on getting to know one person at a time, so you can fully focus on them and get to know them properly, rather than dividing your focus, attention and seriousness on multiple people. I am not expecting some magical, instant high-level chemistry and butterflies. Obviously you need to go through initial screening before deciding to focus on just that person. I’ll give you a concrete example in my life: Say I haven’t been dating anyone for a while and I am starting again. During the first week of approaching people, I’ll probably get around 3-5 people (depending on how much time I have to approach) that I wanna get to know better / go on first dates with. After the first date with the 5, most likely 3-4 will drop out (including flaking, or just us not finding time and it going cold), and with 1 person we decide to keep getting to know each other. At this point I will still meet new people for dates but if I see a girl for 2-3 dates, it’s time to forget everyone else, and just focus on getting to know her before things end with her, and I’ll start over. Perhaps reach out to some leads I met prior to deciding to only focus on getting to know her.

Yeah, I think being as honest as possible explaining what happened without hurting her feelings is key here. She is not conscious and mature enough to be able to handle 100% truth without being deeply hurt. I do do nightgame as I love dancing but it’s not really the best place. I try to incorporate more niche places like art events, self-help / spiritual gatherings, and I also try to make IG content that are as authentic as possible to attract like-minded people. They also have bigger spiritual / yoga festivals here in Finland. Right now I am attending a more mainstream / artsy festival called Flow Festival. I haven’t been on dating apps but I am considering it. It’s shallow as fuck but I could filter very strongly with a strong bio. With my face, I should be able to get some high quality leads there. Where do you mostly meet girls right now?

By finding out. The real question is: HOW do you find out asap, so you don’t waste a shit ton of your time with the wrong people?

How many times have I said in this thread, that focusing on getting to know one person, does not mean full commitment?

I think many of you are making this a much bigger thing in your head than it really is. Watch for projection. Notice how much we discuss dating here. How much of it is actually conscious dating? How much of it is PUA? How much of it is misogyny? Of course I want to talk about real love. Why would I not? Keep in mind that I have probably 50k approaches under my belt. I have had SO MUCH shallow bullshit manipulative conversations, if I have to do one more, I will puke. These conversations lead NOWHERE long-term, How can we build connections that actually have substance and LASTS? By being real, having honest and deep conversations. Being vulnerable and connecting on a soul level. Ridiculous how you guys are making me the martyr, yet proposing that I could be the one doing it.

And why would I be interested in this person as a potential life partner? This is why doing the inner work is key to this type of relationship.

By keeping things superficial as hell, like most people do.

@Xonas Pitfall The question here is not whether it is wrong or not (morally, ethically). The question is should you? What benefits? What could you lose?

There is always an agenda, whether it is fun or something else.

Keep in mind most of this is something new I am experimenting with currently. Or let’s say the past 10 months on and off. The truth is, if you want to maximize ”dating results”, you should not be this hardcore. But I am not interested in that. I am interested in finding real people who have done the heavy inner work, has deep self-awareness and has nothing to hide. I want realness. I am completely tired and exhausted from games and manipulations. Truth is one of my top values, if not the top. So yes, all of this is really trying to decondition my PUA paradigm, and more. I want to understand and practice Conscious Dating. Something not discussed here really. I seem to be the only one to push it. Even such an important topic, but Leo hasn’t made a video on it in all these years. - - - - - If during any given night, I just want pussy, do I push this? Hell no. I turn into a player.

It’s good you challenge me, do not feel like I don’t appreciate them. Especially as your approach is mature and calm. I very much respect that. I am not concerned with things taking too long. Just from my own contemplation, if you are actually serious about finding a life partner, why take so long before showing who you really are? I have personally not much to hide. And I am working on having even less to hide. I come from something called conscious selling. In one hour or sales call, we get the other person to open up about all their deepest pain and fears with powerful questions (I call it simply honest conversation), in a way nobody has come close to doing so for them, and they basically make a decision to pay thousands of dollars within an hour. That’s how real the conversations needs to be. Why not? If you are not looking for a life partner, then do not waste my time. The only difference between dating and conscious sales is that there’s noticeably more flirting, fun, and laughter in dating. But even flirting is done in a much more direct way than what we are used to in the mainstream. I don’t fuck around.