Miguel1

Owen gets results by massive volume and playing the long game: Hosting parties and networking etc. where he is seen as a big authoritative figure. He also needs rich friends to host massive parties with. For same day / night pulls, he is terrible. He is basically like a club promoter but he takes the girls from the club and invites into his own party where he is the star. This is not a realistic approach for most people getting into pick up. At the end of the day, Owen is physically way too unattractive for game to help him much. His only choice really is to do what he does, and hypnotize some girls to fall hard into his frame and lifestyle. That’s why he pushes frame so hard. The only way for him to get attraction is if manages to get some girls to lose all sensemaking.

When I was 25, I did hard-core serious game for a year and almost killed myself at the end from the misalignment of it (joke). But I got so sick of it I went into a relationship for 5 years lol. Now I am back being single but find it hard to practice PUA, as you know.

So he is basically a club promoter? You cant compare. Club promoter get laid a ton just for the social proof they have and the value they offer club girls. Also, he has done that for a living for god knows how many years. He is basically a professional at talking to girls, bumping their state, and leading then to clubs and giving them a good time. That is far away from a natural who is not a professional at it. The best combo is someone who is a natural but also learned game. That would probably be me. Todd’s technique and lines when used in good taste, just amplified my natural charisma, my ability to lead and close. But again, as I said, if you do not have the inner game and charisma down, he will just make you worse. Now, a non natural but master at PUA or natural who has not learned game? Probably the natural. Depending on many factors.

Where did he say this? But yeah I wouldnt be surprised with his game style. It’s all so superficial fun that leads to nothing meaningful and deep.

@hundreth oh yeah, I have studied him before but it’s been years so I didn’t remember his name correctly.

Different game styles fits different personalities. With Vladimir’s style, it is all fun and games in the moment but doesn’t mean it sticks and the number is actually solid. But that being said, I agree Todd’s game is try-hard if you don’t mix it with proper inner game and charisma. Btw, do you know why Vladimir stopped posting?

This right here is how a mature, sustainable relationship that is healthy and based on honesty is built. How many of you are capapble of such level dating of dating? How many of you can actually be this honest and vulnerable? How many of you are actually aware of the level of manipulation and projection you do when dating? I can tell from my experience of dating like this for the past 6 months: painful as fuck. Not a single girl is willing to be Nearly this open, honest and vulnerable. And I go on many dates. All the PUA dating advices we talk here come nowhere close to what real dating is. PUA is children’s game, albeit a practical one as men are so lonely it is better to get short term intimacy (that often leads to hurting the girl), than nothing. But this right here is the real adult, mature dating. If Leo were to make a guide on dating based on truth, it would probably resemble this a lot. And so, I would like to hear all the adults of the community commenting on this. @Emerald @Leo Gura @Natasha Tori Maru and others. I wonder how far away we are from this kind of dating? Probably 50 years at least. My dating ”results” is basically 0 because I try to practice this level of honesty and vulnerability as much as possible. Sometimes I get frustrated, put on my dark game, and pull a girl almost instantly. It is shockening and heartbreaking to know how unconscious humanity is. I am writing this in a hurry, will check errors and typos later.

When it comes to dancing and especially hip hop, the key is to listen carefully to the music and see how my body expresses both the gross and the subtle forms of the beats. That’s where the beauty lies in hip hop. In other form of music, perhaps expressing the emotions and lyricals of the song becomes more important. Btw, this thread was creating a long time ago. It’s not really my main purpose anymore but a part of it.

I have practiced Todd’s game before. It works wonders if you actually have the inner game and social charisma down. It is just manipulative and fake as hell — the opposite of being genuinely you. If you don’t have the inner side down, his game makes you a nerd. Overly stuck in your head and even more rigid than before. @Ulax What are your concrete results, when practicing Todd’s game?

Notice how all of your attitudes and framing of the whole conversation is: - Miguel is wrong. He is stuck. He needs this and that to grow. - You guys are right, and as a group, it is easier to be right together. Everything I say or do is looked at through this filter. I am being overly praised for simple, normal honesty and vulnerability here (because it fits your frame). And overly criticized for anything that goes against your narrative. All I ask for is total honesty and openess in relationships. How can this be so hard to grasp in such a forum? What would a really conscious relationship look like to you? How would you go about building it, if there was zero or minimal manipulation at play?

You do not need to be a jerk when you are being honest. Just think: what kind of relationships (whether friendship, romantic or business) we would build if the central gravity of society was SD Yellow / Turquoise? Now this is an extreme example, but it is just to make a point. This is honestly so obvious to me I cannot believe how some of you fight against this so hard. One of my main reasons coming to this forum is to discuss more conscious form of relationships. If we clearly disagree this badly, it might be better I step down. I am not interested in endless arguing and conversations that lead nowhere. It is very clear we disagree on the fundamentals. Are you fully honest, open and vulnerable with a stage orange normie? No. Do you want to build a deep meaningful relationship with them? No, unless you are stuck there. Some of you are clearly stuck in orange and optimizing for that life, and that is fine, but don’t come with all your rationalizations and defenses when discussing more conscious form of relationships. Some of you are clearly just in denial. I have yet to see a proper argument against this form of relating, other than if you try to optimize for attraction with normies.

This one is just to showcase my raw dancing skills. Hip hop gets the best out of my skills but it has no story. It’s just cool 🔥🔥🔥 https://www.instagram.com/reel/Db0z0HFiiGs/?igsh=MWV0ZzN1dnJkMW5rZg==

Lol. These ”holier than thou” projections and backhanded compliments are getting ridiculous.

@Natasha Tori Maru I think Naftali only has brothers. And many of them. I will keep studying him, even though I don’t agree with everything he says, I resonate with his deep push for authenticity, honesty and vulnerability from the get go. At least I want to practice that more in my life. I’ve been the opposite of that all my life really, and it hasn’t borne fruits, as it wastes so much time with the wrong people. In this current times, the middle path is most likely the right choice, but I still wanna challenge myself, experiment and directly experience true vulnerability and authenticity from the get go. But I am aware, such behaviour is most likely only going to be punished in our society.

I do have a hard shell. Hence I am practicing to break it and to be more real. ENFJ’s shadows is that they are social chameleons. Their natural tendency is to get along with everyone, and hate being criticized. And pickup just makes it worse as you learn to push buttons of an unconscious individual, rather than to face their real self.

Hahaahahah I raise my hand!

@LordFall Alright brother, it seems like everything I say will be turned around, and gaslighted by you. I can’t even answer your false accusations because you will just say that I am doing something wrong. I don’t see a reason to continue this conversation. I thank you for your effort and participation.

PREACH brother. We talked on IG, but I am really gonna hone in on RAW authenticity there so I will naturally attract not only girls, but the RIGHT girls. Thank you for the post.

@LordFall How am I spiritual by-passing? After sleeping with over a hundred girls, been in monogamous relationships for 11 years in the past 13 (lots of sex) with very beautiful gfs. Why do you know more about me than I know? Perhaps this is the issue here? And finally, there’s absolutely zero chance you are not lying to the girls you are dating. I know all the PUA tricks and the way they lie to themselves so they can sleep at night, as I used to practice all of them.

@LordFall My bad. I have been very busy with work and haven’t had proper time to answer here. I don’t think I am defensive. I just don’t see eye to eye with you guys. In an ideal world, hopefully in the future when we are more conscious as a species, we can be open, honest and vulnerable with each other from the get go — the way Naftali Moses promotes. There is nothing to hide. You don’t need polices if humans were more conscious and mature. Similarly you don’t need to hide and play dating games if you were more conscious and mature. I am shocked this is so hard to grasp by you guys. All this talk on this thread is simply making me double down and triple down on real authenticity. I try to shred as much social games from my personality as possible. I want to be as real and honest from the get go as possible with the people I meet. What else is the point? - - - - - If I go out to pick up girls just purely for sex, then I will put on my seduction and PUA character on. But that’s just it. Just for sex. I do not expect anything genuine, real and long-lasting from it.

@Natasha Tori Maru It’s not that I think you are not coming in good faith. The issue is that since we don’t align in the fundamentals when it comes to this matter, asking such vague question like ”do you trust yourself?” just makes things more confusing. Do I come across as someone who has zero trust in himself?

Owen hasn’t been outside the US in decades. He cannot leave for legal reasons.

Yes, when you are young, then it’s alright and even recommended to fuck around and find out. But as you age and mature, you are no longer interested in that, and want to get straight to the point as soon as possible.

Where do you want to lead with this question? Of course I trust myself to a degree and in certain things. Nobody trusts themselves 100% of the time in everything.

Owen outside of US? That’s a first.