Miguel1

I think you can grow out of that fantasy. That being said, you can have threesomes in monogamous relationship with ur gf and another girl.

It wasn’t a healthy kind of anxiety.

@LordFall Yes, those are basically the arguments Teal makes.

I have met mostly fake green girls then But you are right, trauma work etc. are part of SD Green. But I would say there are levels to it. Basic trauma and inner work is part of it, but we are talking going all the way here.

@Natasha Tori Maru The point is that most people are not willing to do that. Even in our community, which is extremely niched, how maky of us are actually willing to face such fears in ourselves?

@Natasha Tori Maru Facing yourself and your deepest fears is WAY easier said than done.

I was in such a relationship for 5 years until last fall, except I was so much more unconscious and immature than now. It was the most beautiful relationship I have experienced by far, but also the most painful and the worst hell. That relationship + doing Leo’s work seriously, I grew in 5 years way too fucking much. Way more than I had ever imagined. Such a relationship combined with Actualized.org will show you all of your bullshits, self-deceptions and manipulations that you do unconsciously in the relationship.

@Natasha Tori Maru I will respond to you later more in-depth but as I said myself in the opener, I am still unsure about his work. Precisely because of the reason you said. He comes across very strong, which can easily lead to frame controlling. Which he is very much aware of, as he came from the PUA community. And one of the main reasons I made this thread is so you guys can show me the blindspots I might have. I am always careful that I fall into someone’s frame and it blinds me. Especially to people with such strong character. At the same time, it might be for marketing purposes and / or just a deep passion for the topic. See Leo in the past. Here the guest challenges him more.

@Rishabh R @AION Of course his work is about developing real strenght, which comes from diving deep into yourself, your fears, your shadows, and your weaknesses. Where did you even get the idea that this is not the case?

I got this vibe from him very strongly at first too when I first bumped into his content. And I am still not sure if this is the case or not. But remember this podcast was in 2024. There’s a lot of growing in 2 years, especially for someone who is serious about it. Also, he could be talking such boldly cuz he knows it works in the social media space, just like Leo used to practice. And / or it could just be that he is exceptionally passionate about it. Finally, perhaps it is just the masculine way to go about this. Very straight to the point, cut through bullshit approach. But no way is he perfect. And as you said, most likely still has a bunch of inner stuff to be worked on. But the stuff he talks about and the way he talks, is fresh in the online self-help / relationship advice space. I gotta give him that.

Yes, this is why you do all this from the get go. And this is why it is extremely hard to find someone to go on dates with to begin with — most girls are not willing to do this. Naftali is a very good looking lad, yet he says he rarely goes on dates (nor has ONS) cuz there’s nobody he deems worthy of. This is a guy with very high libido and comes from PUA background. He could get laid easily. He has a community of likeminded people, is relatively popular on the internet, yet he still struggles to find worthy people. What chances do a normie like me have? https://www.instagram.com/reel/DboWoQZkiQj/?igsh=MWZoZjN3MDZmdGs2dg==

You are probably more of a natural with a twist of trauma. I have talked to you before. It seems very natural for you to let go and have fun, and don’t care about what anyone thinks of you (these are the most important traits in game) + ADHD.

I’ve been in the game since I was like 17 so almost 15 years but it was not until in recent years that I realized how fucking hard this really is, and that I had a lot of naturality in me + my looks + my zen devilry. No wonder Owen keeps yelling that in order to become good at this, you have to become delusionally narcissist. Is it true? No. But does it help a shit ton? Yes. Some year ago I met a guy who was in the game for 10 years, and he asked me for advice. His level was basically of a total newbie. I was shocked. Still had approach anxiety. No wonder I have no competition here in Finland. Is there a more efficient way than PUA? It seems like it is very very niche, and even then it doesn’t work for majority of people in it.

Money

I did not say that. I have to go to sleep now but I’ll get back more in-depth tomorrow.

Pick up is fucking hard to get good at if you are not a natural at it. Try focusing on one thing to improve at, at a time, before moving to the next. For you, focus on becoming good at opening sets. It’s the most awkward phase of the interaction. Once you get good at that, the rest will be easy. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself, as that will make you rigid and nervous.

Definitely not best from the standpoint of maximizing their stage orange desires (or even green for that matter), and definitely not for their desire to run away from themselves. Quite the opposite actually. And yes, you are correct. There is a word for it: it is called spiritual by-passing. I am very well aware of it, and this is not the issue for me here. Think: why does Leo not date (based on last public information)? Why doesn’t the most developed beings date?

Advanced, academic-sounding language.

We talked on the phone about this a while back. Back then I was going at this problem more from the Spiral Dynamics angle. Yes, a stage green girl with a little bit of yellow is ideal -- but as important, if not more important (which we didn't really discuss), is: have they faced themselves? Have they healed their traumas? Have they integrated their shadows and repressions? Are they in touch with themselves? Do they value honesty, truth, self-reflection and personal growth? Are they capable of being vulnerable? The Teal's work to the Leo's work. The Yin to the Yan. Both are needed to a great degree. No need to be perfect as such a thing doesn't exist. But a great level needs to be achieved.

People date for years, sometimes even 10+ years and still don't know each other, and what's even more crazy: oftentimes they are STILL not sure about each other as the partner they want for life! Naftali's philosophy is this: You cannot afford to date 5 years and not know if they are your partner for life. In a few months you should know! And it's possibly only via truthful, honest and vulnerable conversations. Most people are afraid of people who have done the deep inner work, shadow work, inner facing work, because the more integrated a person is, the more of a mirror they will become. And! Only a person who values personal growth, will 1. do the work, and 2. be able to actually APPRECAITE and be attracted (rather than scared and repulsed by) to people who have done the work. And! Only these people are Actually able to sit down on the first date, and be completely open, vulnerable and honest. I believe this is what @Emerald pushes here, and we get in conflict with her because we are still thinking in the domain of PUA.

Guys, think of it like this: If me and you are going to build a sustainable and healthy relationship for the rest of our lives. What do we need to know about each other? And more importantly, what do we need to know about OURSELVES? And how are we supposed to find those out, if we don't deep dive into each other's minds? - - - - - Life is truly mysterious. I have been struggling with this ever since I broke up from my 5 year relatioship, almost a year ago. I took a long break for me to heal myself, but went on a few dates here and there during this healing process, and now in the past few months of the late spring and the whole of summer, I went on dates more actively. And, I was struggling with this issue all along. I couldn't properly put things into word. I tried to find answers here on the forum, but got a lot of shit thrown at me for me "being holier than thou". And then! Naftali appears! And now i don't feel like I am going fucking mad by myself anymore. There are others struggling with this! My God! I can't believe it. I believe Leo struggles with this too, he is just not as interested in it as I am, for we have almost opposite personality types.

I took it down a while back as I started to feel too misaligned with what I was coaching people on. It was too orange and short-term results orientated. Right now I am in a transitioning phase. I need my work to become much more integrous, integrated and aligned -- yet somehow in a way that still reaches people, as I need it to generate money as well. I believe I am going to transition into some sort of a mix of Naftali Moses' work, dance therapy, basic social skills and little bit of Teal Swan + Actualized.org. But it has to remain practical, so it will remain within the human relationship niche.

I have been studying Naftali Moses’ work the past few months here and there so I haven’t come into full conclusion about his work. But it seems very good. One of the reasons I share his work here is also to see if there’s blindspots I have missed. I will most likely share his work more here coming up. The guy was like 24-25 years old in this podcast and currently like 26-27, and the maturity, vulnerability and honesty he expresses is at least of someone 10 years older than him. He is by no means perfect though, so don’t get the wrong impression. Just very impressive for his age. He had exceptional parents (not sure how conscuous), and pulled him out of Jewish school at the age of 8, because they knew it was wrong and solely conformity and group-think. He was home schooled and allowed to study whatever his heart wanted to, and it lead to psychology from a very early age. Funnily enough, he does also have a background in PUA when he was younger. But he quickly saw through it and moved on to higher level dating. Currently, he works as a coach to help his clients face their inner demons, shadows and weakneses, so they can built something based on strenght, honesty and realness. https://youtube.com/@naftalimoses

Of course comfort and safety is important, just not as important as attraction and strenght. And comfort and safety most of the time destroys attraction.

1-3 close ones including my significant other, then a few not too close. I have like 50 friends I go only to play football with but I don’t count them as friends.