Miguel1

The PUA paradigm teaches you to date 5-10 girls at once for months and months, before you drop everyone and just focus on one, when she has proved her worth to you. They call this abundance. I call it insecurity, and a huge waste of time and energy. I used to do it a lot so I know exactly how much time was wasted, and how I truly felt deep down. This is what I am mostly speaking against.

Too much split in her psyche. Notice how hard she fell for OP, so fast. This is way too unhinged and unsustainable. She does not have a stable mind. With that information, I actually think Zenterus is in deeper shit than what I originally thought. She will triple and quadriple down on hating men after this, and the hatred will be pointed towards him.

I used to do salsa and bachata but left the circle (as it’s fairly small here in Helsinki) because we did it with my ex, and I basically gave the whole social circle to her out of love, as we decided to do no-contact. It’s a big joy for her. My own dance style is my main joy, whereas latin dances were hers. The key is not to go for the tens. Go for the 8-9. More so 8 than 9, and do not go for 18-21 years olds. Even 22-23 are too young, but there are more exceptions here. 24-25 minimun, and 26-27 max as I don’t want them to be too old either. Also, their clothing style says a lot. With some girls, you can just tell they are chaotic and unintegrated as hell. But also, the other extreme is those status signaling dressing. The ideal is when a girl has some uniqueness and individuality in her dressing, yet is not chaotic in it. In the festival I am attending, there’s a lot of stage orange girls inflirtating and taking pictures for status symbol. ALL THESE GIRLS LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME. What the fuck. They dress the same, they have the same make up, and they look the same (exaggerating a bit here). How is dating apps yielding you results? Do you screen with your bio at all, or is it optimized for ”results”? I feel like dating apps could be very high numbers game, without me having to put much effort, so I could really screen hard initially with my bio.

Huge red flag. HUGE. Unintegrated, too much shadows and traumas.

What? I am literally advocating on getting to know one person at a time, so you can fully focus on them and get to know them properly, rather than dividing your focus, attention and seriousness on multiple people. I am not expecting some magical, instant high-level chemistry and butterflies. Obviously you need to go through initial screening before deciding to focus on just that person. I’ll give you a concrete example in my life: Say I haven’t been dating anyone for a while and I am starting again. During the first week of approaching people, I’ll probably get around 3-5 people (depending on how much time I have to approach) that I wanna get to know better / go on first dates with. After the first date with the 5, most likely 3-4 will drop out (including flaking, or just us not finding time and it going cold), and with 1 person we decide to keep getting to know each other. At this point I will still meet new people for dates but if I see a girl for 2-3 dates, it’s time to forget everyone else, and just focus on getting to know her before things end with her, and I’ll start over. Perhaps reach out to some leads I met prior to deciding to only focus on getting to know her.

Yeah, I think being as honest as possible explaining what happened without hurting her feelings is key here. She is not conscious and mature enough to be able to handle 100% truth without being deeply hurt. I do do nightgame as I love dancing but it’s not really the best place. I try to incorporate more niche places like art events, self-help / spiritual gatherings, and I also try to make IG content that are as authentic as possible to attract like-minded people. They also have bigger spiritual / yoga festivals here in Finland. Right now I am attending a more mainstream / artsy festival called Flow Festival. I haven’t been on dating apps but I am considering it. It’s shallow as fuck but I could filter very strongly with a strong bio. With my face, I should be able to get some high quality leads there. Where do you mostly meet girls right now?

By finding out. The real question is: HOW do you find out asap, so you don’t waste a shit ton of your time with the wrong people?

How many times have I said in this thread, that focusing on getting to know one person, does not mean full commitment?

I think many of you are making this a much bigger thing in your head than it really is. Watch for projection. Notice how much we discuss dating here. How much of it is actually conscious dating? How much of it is PUA? How much of it is misogyny? Of course I want to talk about real love. Why would I not? Keep in mind that I have probably 50k approaches under my belt. I have had SO MUCH shallow bullshit manipulative conversations, if I have to do one more, I will puke. These conversations lead NOWHERE long-term, How can we build connections that actually have substance and LASTS? By being real, having honest and deep conversations. Being vulnerable and connecting on a soul level. Ridiculous how you guys are making me the martyr, yet proposing that I could be the one doing it.

And why would I be interested in this person as a potential life partner? This is why doing the inner work is key to this type of relationship.

By keeping things superficial as hell, like most people do.

@Xonas Pitfall The question here is not whether it is wrong or not (morally, ethically). The question is should you? What benefits? What could you lose?

There is always an agenda, whether it is fun or something else.

Keep in mind most of this is something new I am experimenting with currently. Or let’s say the past 10 months on and off. The truth is, if you want to maximize ”dating results”, you should not be this hardcore. But I am not interested in that. I am interested in finding real people who have done the heavy inner work, has deep self-awareness and has nothing to hide. I want realness. I am completely tired and exhausted from games and manipulations. Truth is one of my top values, if not the top. So yes, all of this is really trying to decondition my PUA paradigm, and more. I want to understand and practice Conscious Dating. Something not discussed here really. I seem to be the only one to push it. Even such an important topic, but Leo hasn’t made a video on it in all these years. - - - - - If during any given night, I just want pussy, do I push this? Hell no. I turn into a player.

It’s good you challenge me, do not feel like I don’t appreciate them. Especially as your approach is mature and calm. I very much respect that. I am not concerned with things taking too long. Just from my own contemplation, if you are actually serious about finding a life partner, why take so long before showing who you really are? I have personally not much to hide. And I am working on having even less to hide. I come from something called conscious selling. In one hour or sales call, we get the other person to open up about all their deepest pain and fears with powerful questions (I call it simply honest conversation), in a way nobody has come close to doing so for them, and they basically make a decision to pay thousands of dollars within an hour. That’s how real the conversations needs to be. Why not? If you are not looking for a life partner, then do not waste my time. The only difference between dating and conscious sales is that there’s noticeably more flirting, fun, and laughter in dating. But even flirting is done in a much more direct way than what we are used to in the mainstream. I don’t fuck around.

@KosmicGeng With you, I am not sure what do you mean by half the things you say. I don’t do dating apps. I only meet girls IRL. During those meetings, it can last from 5 min to many hours. I get a very good sense of what they are about, if we spend many hours together. Then if I go on a date with them, I further get to know them. How she thinks, how her humour works, how she carries herself, how healed she is, what is approx her maturity level etc. I don’t see a reason why would I need multiple dates to decide if I just want to focus on getting to know this girl. Some people date multiple people for months before dropping everyone else and just focusing on one (not commitment yet - just purely getting to know). How do you have resources, time and energy, to get to know many people at once, on a deep level, and remember everything? I would need an excel for it.

I am also slow to warm up. But precisely that’s why let us not fool around too much, otherwise it will take forever.

Make this your Journal, so you don’t end up making 100 different threads in a month. This all sounds like fun and games socializing, and it is good for starters, but remember that this is not really game yet. You need to get something concrete out of it, like a number or instagram, or pull, otherwise it leads nowhere as you said.

@Natasha Tori Maru You are correct. This is exactly what is happening, I am very well aware of it, and that I am doing it. Yet, at the same time I see no real counter-arguments for me to actually stop and prope further. Mostly what I hear is exactly just pre-existing frames, defenses and projections. No new information being presented. The whole idea of this thread and every last one of my threads is just to tackle the same problem, from different angles — to see if they inspire new perspectives, challenges and arguments. I want to be challenged, yet most of the challenges thrown at me are kinda silly.

Those shy type of girls are the wildest when they are comfortable letting loose. As for your situation, what makes it way less bad is that you didn’t have sex with her. But yeah, you did lead her on pretty hard and now she is overly excited about you. Wheb you reject her, there will be a very strong RAS flip, for her to feel better about herself. This is why I advocate very hard for conscious dating based on full truth, honesty, authenticity and vulnerability — from the get go.

Read the damn opener

@something_else Your dates lasts 30 min?

By definition, these are not my people. I don’t want to fuck around. Yet, getting to know each other seriously doesn’t have to have zero fun in it. I fucking love it and enjoy it deeply when my date is highly self-aware. There will be a bunch of laughter too, just not the main thing. Why are they mutually exclusive?

The opposite actually. This reeks of self-confidence. The whole PUA paradigm of having to spin multiple girls at once to feel abundance, comes from insecurity deep down. And it is just conformity. But what I am suggesting here needs to be transcended through the PUA abundance mindset. I am criticizing your mindset from above, not below. To me, you seem like you are needy, cuz you can’t fucking be confident without having a ton of girls validating you. A truly secure man does not need multiple girls to feel secure.

@Jirh Too loose. You are not serious about finding a compatible partner. The goal is to find out about compatibility fast. Not slow. Not fuck around and find out. Simply find out.