Miguel1

@LordFall Yes, those are basically the arguments Teal makes.

Can we have an in-depth discussion about this? In my personal life, I have been fluctuating between these two. I grew up being programmed for monogamous. But at my peak PUA and hippie phase, I was all for polyamory as it fit my narrative and goals. Then studying Leo from 2020 onwards, I came to realize that polyamory for many is just spiritual by-passing, as it was for me too. Now at this point, I am back to being for monogamy but there are people like Teal that makes strong arguments for polyamory. I would love me a hard core ”die on this mountain” partner to develop a monogamous relationship with, like how Naftali Moses promotes. Yet my experience with girls + the arguments people like Teal makes, makes me contemplate polyamory again too. But obviously this time from a place of maturity, as teal puts it. What do you guys think? What are you more for? What are the pros and cons? What are some less obvious reason for and against?

I have met mostly fake green girls then But you are right, trauma work etc. are part of SD Green. But I would say there are levels to it. Basic trauma and inner work is part of it, but we are talking going all the way here.

@Natasha Tori Maru The point is that most people are not willing to do that. Even in our community, which is extremely niched, how maky of us are actually willing to face such fears in ourselves?

@Natasha Tori Maru Facing yourself and your deepest fears is WAY easier said than done.

I was in such a relationship for 5 years until last fall, except I was so much more unconscious and immature than now. It was the most beautiful relationship I have experienced by far, but also the most painful and the worst hell. That relationship + doing Leo’s work seriously, I grew in 5 years way too fucking much. Way more than I had ever imagined. Such a relationship combined with Actualized.org will show you all of your bullshits, self-deceptions and manipulations that you do unconsciously in the relationship.

@Natasha Tori Maru I will respond to you later more in-depth but as I said myself in the opener, I am still unsure about his work. Precisely because of the reason you said. He comes across very strong, which can easily lead to frame controlling. Which he is very much aware of, as he came from the PUA community. And one of the main reasons I made this thread is so you guys can show me the blindspots I might have. I am always careful that I fall into someone’s frame and it blinds me. Especially to people with such strong character. At the same time, it might be for marketing purposes and / or just a deep passion for the topic. See Leo in the past. Here the guest challenges him more.

@Rishabh R @AION Of course his work is about developing real strenght, which comes from diving deep into yourself, your fears, your shadows, and your weaknesses. Where did you even get the idea that this is not the case?

I got this vibe from him very strongly at first too when I first bumped into his content. And I am still not sure if this is the case or not. But remember this podcast was in 2024. There’s a lot of growing in 2 years, especially for someone who is serious about it. Also, he could be talking such boldly cuz he knows it works in the social media space, just like Leo used to practice. And / or it could just be that he is exceptionally passionate about it. Finally, perhaps it is just the masculine way to go about this. Very straight to the point, cut through bullshit approach. But no way is he perfect. And as you said, most likely still has a bunch of inner stuff to be worked on. But the stuff he talks about and the way he talks, is fresh in the online self-help / relationship advice space. I gotta give him that.

Yes, this is why you do all this from the get go. And this is why it is extremely hard to find someone to go on dates with to begin with — most girls are not willing to do this. Naftali is a very good looking lad, yet he says he rarely goes on dates (nor has ONS) cuz there’s nobody he deems worthy of. This is a guy with very high libido and comes from PUA background. He could get laid easily. He has a community of likeminded people, is relatively popular on the internet, yet he still struggles to find worthy people. What chances do a normie like me have? https://www.instagram.com/reel/DboWoQZkiQj/?igsh=MWZoZjN3MDZmdGs2dg==

You are probably more of a natural with a twist of trauma. I have talked to you before. It seems very natural for you to let go and have fun, and don’t care about what anyone thinks of you (these are the most important traits in game) + ADHD.

I’ve been in the game since I was like 17 so almost 15 years but it was not until in recent years that I realized how fucking hard this really is, and that I had a lot of naturality in me + my looks + my zen devilry. No wonder Owen keeps yelling that in order to become good at this, you have to become delusionally narcissist. Is it true? No. But does it help a shit ton? Yes. Some year ago I met a guy who was in the game for 10 years, and he asked me for advice. His level was basically of a total newbie. I was shocked. Still had approach anxiety. No wonder I have no competition here in Finland. Is there a more efficient way than PUA? It seems like it is very very niche, and even then it doesn’t work for majority of people in it.

Money

I did not say that. I have to go to sleep now but I’ll get back more in-depth tomorrow.

Pick up is fucking hard to get good at if you are not a natural at it. Try focusing on one thing to improve at, at a time, before moving to the next. For you, focus on becoming good at opening sets. It’s the most awkward phase of the interaction. Once you get good at that, the rest will be easy. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself, as that will make you rigid and nervous.