Miguel1

It’s the same struggle Emerald and Etheral Cat went through here, and probably many other female members. Also probably the reason they all left. Back then I was still too biased to see, and also not an active member yet to be commenting. But now, I rather not see the same mistake being repeated, especially as you are one of the higher quality posters here. It seems Leo has learned his lesson and was able to take the feedback properly based on his responses here. Much love.

That makes sense. I think there is a tendency to downplay our self-deceptions and biases towards sex because it is ”such a low function” compared to the serious work - but that’s precisely the danger. Thank you for your patience and compassion.

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes, hence I brought this up to give it integrity. If this community wasn’t about truth, then I wouldn’t care as it would be very male biased. But I hold us to a higher standard, because truth is one of our top values here.

Yes, as you said, Leo throws a lot of these short comments confidently that comes across as ”it’s simple as this, period” -feeling - especially in the ’what attracts women’ space. Which is understandable, when the women here feel like they are being devalued. It’s almost like someone said that Leo has gone mad very confidently. Has he? Yes he has by any normal mind’s standard. But that's just the half truth. By the standards of what we do here, he has turned sane! More conscious.

Leo also recently called women shallow (if I recall correctly), within the past 48 hours. The same thing that made Natasha gave a clear and strong warning to AION, without the ability to discuss it with her. And yes, Leo also did undo the warning points given by Natasha. This is directly and indirectly dismissing Natasha’s feelings about the issue.

@AION I am not throwing you under the buss. It just oozes off of you that you lack respect.

Yes, and this is where tension and resentment builds up overtime. Hence I softly suggested having a conversation to clear this up. In a mature manner. Not sure if it is actually doable tho, as people here get triggered and defensive way easier than one would expect from a community like this. That being said, this is definitely way less toxic than it used to be. But I just don’t think we can get it to a mature level enough to have such high level conversation.

I did not suggest anyone to get special treatments.

Yes, it’s a good point. One of the reasons is that we are male dominated community, so of course we are biased not to look into our own errors. On the same point, these conversations sparks from PUA talks, which again is to help the majority of people here, men. And in PUA talks, we discuss what works on female nature. And to understand it properly, we focus on the female extensively and what they are: immature. Hence immature techniques work on them, and we practice them. But that obviously corrupts us as well. There is just no incentives to look into it. I have the incentives, because I have gotten the results from PUA, so much so I am sick of it and want something more integrous, truthful, and higher.

The issue here is that you, as the leader of the community, are also saying stuff about women that she finds disrespectful. The same way Emerald and Etheral Cat found them disrespectful.

Thanks for sharing your honest opinions. I would not want you to step down as a moderator. It would be a big loss for us all. As a man, who spent majority of his adult and teenage life, surrounding myself with girls, I view girls in many ways, way more intelligent than men. Especially here in Finland, our men are autistic as hell, whereas the women thrive here. Sanna Marin (female) for example, holds the title of the youngest prime minister of Finland. We are truly one of the leaders in stage Green development. And the women here are the ones pushing leftist and green values, whereas the men here are way more on the right and hold onto traditional values. They are way more racist and homophobic. Women are the ones that are more educated here, and in general, they are way more human and empathetic in their approach and intelligence - that’s why I have deep respect for them. My best friends have pretty much all been my ex girlfriends. All that being said, I have also seen how girls chase after the worst degenerate scums. I have seen how they fall head over heels and lose all intelligence and sense making for the charismatic assholes. I have seen first hand how my results with women significantly drops, the more I treat them with love, respect and empathy. So even if their normal intelligence (at least emotional and people) is relatively high, compared to the males here, their attraction mechanisms seems to be completely stuck in the past - and it hasn’t evolved and caught up really at all.

This is all what a healthy version of pick up artistry is about. - Detaching from your ego / need for outcome / grandiose and false self-image - Efficient way to meet new people romantically - PUA is about treating dating as a marketing funnel

She seems to have edited that line. I sense uneaseness from Natasha and resentment building up within her.

I can sense something building up between some guys on the forum and Natasha. This reminds me of all the heated conversations between Emerald and Etheral Cat vs Leo. We probably should start a conversation to clear it. I can sense the tension building up very very clearly actually. The tension comes from when guys here based on their experience or no experience + knowledge they have learned, view women as these shallow, childhish and easily seduced by toxic, selfish, narcissist, immature behaviour - of course the ladies here do not like that. Natasha recently gave a very clear warning to AION for calling women shallow. Yet, this has been constantly brough up afterwards, even the leader of the community regularly calls women ”easy to fool” etc. I very strongly sense that Natasha does not like this really at all. I kinda am hesitant to start the conversation, because it never lead anywhere good throughout the years, despite multiple conversations about it. Instead, we just lost the female members here. But perhaps we are more mature and wiser now? I would like to have @Emerald @Etherial Cat & @Natasha Tori Maru actively be part of that conversation. I truly feel like we lose all the quality female members here precisely because of this discord. I myself am 50/50 in the topic. Yes, a lot / most girls from my experience are immature as hell, and are attracted to immature and unconscious behaviour from a man. But so are most guys immature as hell. But surely, the more conscious women do not fall for such stupid games, right?! At least this is what I deep down hope for, because that’s what I want. But is just false, no matter how much I want it? A perfect pair of boobs is still gonna draw me in, despite all the maturing I’ve done. My discerment is definitely way better now than when I was younger. No matter how perfect the boobs are, toxicity and drama is still mostly a turn off for me, for I value my inner peace very highly. But I am a man. I can better detach myself from my feelings, or can I?

This is not so black and white. If you have never done pick up, you don’t really know how much it grows you. Do you understand the strenght it takes to walk up to a group of 10 people sitting, you remaining completely calm and grounded, starting a conversation with them and making them like you? I would probably have never been able to do this without practicing pick up. Last night, I walked up alone, to a 10 person group, 9 man, 1 gorgeous blonde. And almost took the blonde from them. This is fucking confidence. What else is this? This is the true strenght of a man who has gone through hell to purify his weaknesses. Can you do this? If you can’t then don’t shit on this skillset too quickly. Besides, what’s the alternative? Most guys cannot do online dating. Dating via job is very limited and risky. Same with social circle - it is also not easy to have proper social circle without good social skills. But yeah, I do get the toxicity. There is definitely a very toxic form of pick up. I used to practice that when I was younger. But nowadays I do a much healthier version of it, and that is what I recommend.