jonabark

All fundamentalisms gravitate to murdering their 'enemies', especially when their 'enemies are on land they want, or have power they want, or resources they want. Many muslims of both shia and sunni heritage are not fundamentalists and don't want to force conversion on anyone. Many are only nominally and culturally religious. Some are wildly open to various mystical paths. The Sufis are probably, like most humans, a mixed bag, but they steer away from war and toward friendlier forms of spirituality, singing like celestial thrushes and spinning gracefully like planets among the stars.

In one post Leo said something like ' spirituality requires a peaceful stable society'. When another commenter questioned the existence of such a thing, he said' you are living in one'. I would say the facts are against him on both counts. as to living in one, America is still, as Martin King said ' the greatest purveyor of violence on earth'. We live on stolen land and still refuse to honor our treaties with the indigenous people who lived here for thousands of years. Our wars and use of fossil fuels has destabilized the planet and caused massive destruction. So far chanting and kundalini experiences and prayers have not stopped the wars, or the building of nuclear weapons, or global warming, and has not housed the millions of refugees, despite many assurances that all of that would naturally happen as rich people got enlightened. As to the requirement for stable societies. I beg to differ. The teachings of Jesus emerged under the cruelty of Roman occupation, Black Elk, Chief Seattle, Handsome Lake and Wovoka spoke great wisdom and showed courage and spiritual depth after and during the destruction of their culture, The Tibetan Buddhists were murdered and tortured in large number and driven from their monasteries only to move to Nepal, continue their devotion, rebuild and reach an ever larger audience. The center is not the inner transformation of the individual. There is no center. We really are all part of the same whole. And that whole is looking for us in a million practical and wonderfully impractical ways. Loving communication within that whole is the life force that gives it a meaningful totality of being. But when an individual fills his house with carbon monoxide, and there is no escape for the gas, that individual will die. So it is with our planetary home. If we do to evolve the wherewithal to turn off the gas, and open the plant windows to let it back into mother earths carbon storage system, and if we do not do that soon, the wholeness and beauty will face feedback loop of destruction.

Leo said "Ain't no apocalypse coming. And if it is, you're fucked anyway" I have just listened to a few of Shunyamurti's messages and am very impressed, not because I think there is an apocalypse coming, I actually never, so far, heard him say that, and would be interested if substantive quotes can be given to that effect. What impresses me is his willingness to acknowledge the extremity of our ecological situation. A situation which he further acknowledges is based upon a society of egomaniacs, some with enormous military and economic power. This is simply reality and while the pope and Dalai Lama are willing to face the problem, most ultra spiritual messengers are not and focus all teachings on individual transcendence( enlightenment, happiness...) . Russel Brand also, while deeply spiritual engages with the reality of the direction of the larger culture, as do many scientists, artists, permaculturists, and even economists. The apocalypse is already here for many as it falls from the sky in the form of bombs, as it kills off half the species on earth with toxic materials and global warming, as pandemics circulate in a globalized world. Humans are in need of communities of spiritual and physical health and ecological sanity. How many leaders have building that kind of model as a practical goal ? Is it possible that many spiritual people are simply seeking escape in experiences, money, etc. Too much chanting and breathing and not enough growing healthy food or working for peace. The thing about what is happening that allows the possibility of avoiding apocalypse is the resilience of the earth. But we need to protect her with prayers, spiritual discipline and actions.