Yobenm

I was just browsing randomly through the thread because this arguing has something attracting. It's good reading people defending their views of what enlightenment is. Anyways, I've been doubtful for some time about whether you're stuck hard on an ego game or actually really reaching deep states of consciousness. This simple message struck something. Probably nobody here arguing and trying to defend whatever view they have on what consciousness is is enlightened... I mean, isn't the whole point becoming one with the whole existence and feel no lasting resistance ? Yes, that's a rationalized way of describing it, but what's the point of chasing enlightenment if there still is serparation, hence suffering and the game is not felt like a game ? So yeah, Buddhism and non duality are attractive in this regard because they seem to genuinely point in the right way. But I also agree with you, following by the book a way traced by someone else doesn't look like a good way to tackle infinite love. But you insist more and more on you knowing more about god and consciousness than anyone else. I don't think infinite love is only about knowledge. Especially knowledge you're unable to share usefully with anyone. THIS looks like self deception, not what Frank Yang is talking about. He doesn't seem to be trying to convince people how superior he is. To me he looks like a guy trying to explain his experience with passion and radiating love. He claims he is one with the whole existence and It feels like it can be trusted, and a lot of his descriptions of meditation sound intuitive, makes sense and doesn't look at all like blindly following a dogma. Knowledge is just part of god, it can't be the whole thing, so filling your ego needs for it will be as endless as God but I don't think this will ever lead to enlightenment. Thirst for knowledge literally feels like normal day to day ego shit. To be frank, there is something deeply metaphysical for me in this, but it feels like the root of what brought me in this life, so I wouldn't trust it to guide me to enlightenment.

Even before having the awakening experiences that made me seek enlightenment, I always had some deep intuition that I was conscious before I was born, that I cannot really stop being conscious and that there was something before this life. My awakening experience was like partly remembering this was a reality but I was not sober and could not completely get everything. Since then I've had numerous little glimpses of this "remembering", but could not get a clear enough view of it. It always took one conceptual form but failed to be whole in a sense. I just had a more clear glimpse of it that I think I can put to words and I'd love to know what you think of it and if it's relatable. So basically, it takes the form of a half memory of some kind of transition process that seems to encompass all of possible concepts and knowledge, or at least a perfectly compressed version of how you would describe all you know of reality if you had to. It's like a movie, but with thoughts and emotions, all associated with one another, be it meaning, or concepts themselves (like word = number = book = story = movie = life = death, etc From what I remember, I have experienced that process several times, and I situate it in my childhood, pre-teen years. I remember it like it's a night dream I've had at this age, but it feels more like it actually happened before I was born. Or if it makes sense I have a hunch that I'm currently (normal life) inside a very slow version of it. For more conceptual details I would say I instinctively associate this process with the idea of death. It also bears a strong link with the idea of the mother, helplessness, shame and age. It feels in a way like each life ends with this process and a new one begins, with a new innate knowledge thanks to the integrations the process itself allowed. It feels like I experienced It many times in my childhood (though not keeping any true memory of it each time), but it stopped at a point. It's like each cycle has to be longer and harder. Does it ring a bell for somebody ? Does it have anything to do with enlightenment ? I feel like if I can remember this completely and moreover completely understand it, this is enlightenment. Edit : I know parts of what I describe seems contradictory, but I tried to describe the way it feels to me.

Yeah, I get what you mean, but I kind of already went through that madness some years ago. I was not trying to construct this map, but I was chemically disbalanced by taking MDMA (for the first time) and some days later marijuana (which I had only done like 3 times before and always had an over the top effect). Combined with undelying psychological feebleness it led to a brief psychotic disorder where I kind of let myself believe I was in some kind of role game and it went out of hands. I can really imagine the endeavour of trying to map reality leading to such a crisis as I can feel my mind begin to slip in the same way while playing with such ideas. On the other hand, it looks like an ordeal I've already gone through. I also think there might be usefullness to such a "device" that I will develop below. Maybe the word "map" is wrong. I don't mean an all encompassing guide for all reality, this doesn't make sense, you can't explain infinity. You know, Godel's theorem... And I did'nt think my message could be interpreted as rationalist, that's surprising, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. What about a "Compass". Something that from any current state would indicate the most direct way to enlightenment. One could argue that's called any form of spirituality but that's exactly the point. What I seek is the most systematic practice or steps to direct realization. Maybe that's the systematic side that looks rationalist, but the point is to break out of materialism and transcend rationalism, so I don't know... So yeah, easy to say, "Just invent the best path to enlightenment", like no master has tried in the history of mankind. But do we really have a spiritual practice that matches the state of the world nowadays ? I'm not sure, it looks to me like there's a great imbalance. I tend to believe the state of the outside world is just a reflection of one's current state. Maybe if this new "way" can be found, it could be a paradigm shift. I mean, can you imagine anyone being presented with the possibility of buddhahood right now ? If there really are enlightened people reading this I would love your advice on this. Tell me if i'm wrong but enlightenment for me means total freedom, and the absence of the feeling a separate self. Doesn't the absence of a self come from the transcendence of any trace of resistance ? If that's so it seems to me to be equivalent to choosing exactly the reality you want. So by extrapolation, woudn't presenting anyone with such a tool be the equivalent of living in a world that is actually like a kind of ultimate VR game. At any moment you can realize you are in the game very easily thanks to this artefact, this compass. Sure you may go through the worst existential crisis and go bat shit crazy. But if you follow the compass all the way, in the end it doesn't matter. You would realize you're just in the game, and you have to possibility to quit the game and explore the infinit russian dolls game you're in. And if that's no good for you you can just pick up the game exactly where you were before and forget all that. I hope the transition to that last argument is not too fast or far fetched. I took a great shortcut but am I the only one that can see it ? And yeah, It can make for a nice and useless philosophical idea. For what I know I'm exactly in the state where I just wanted to forget and pick up the game where it was. But what if ? Yeah, I know, but sometimes I feel lost in it. Or more precisely kind of stuck in a precise subsection of it, with an inner knowing and physical sensation that there is more but it doesn't unlock itself completely.

Your question is kinda insightful because for me it's hard to imagine myself just observing myself talking. Every other process can feel automatic at times, especially after meditation. Feelings and thoughts especially. And movement when I try to understand when exactly I initiate it. But talking to people is always conscious. Way to conscious even. I always feel I don't have anything to say when I would like to. This is really though provoking. No wonder we have a hard time comunicating awakening to others when our base experience can be so different.

I will try to explain my idea as clearly as possible. I've been wondering for some time now if it's possible that a map of reality exists. By that I mean a tool of some sort (written, video, something else ?) that can be used at any stage of the spiritual path by anybody to locate exactly "where" or "what" he currently is in the infinite and speed up one's enlightenment process. It would be like pressing the fast forward button. By enlightenment here I mean not only realise that you are god, but also get the whole workings of things so that you can direct yourself to experience exactly what you want to experience. Please tell me if you think I'm wrong. I totally get that wanting to experience something in particular is an ego thing, but the whole point of seeking enlightenment is an ego thing, so even if there is no such desire "after" enlightenment the point and the result are the same. So, back to the idea, I've been yo-yoing with it. For me true infinity also means anything is possible, so a map would make no sense if from one given point (your now or mine, with all it's content) anything is possible and every possible reality can join. HOWEVER, in actuality even if I believe reality is infinity, I experience it from one standpoint at a time, so it makes sense there is a path anyway, even if the path is "meant" to lead to the whole outside of itself. Hell, actually from my standpoint, finding this map "outside" (as opposite to simply meditate it out of myself) would feel like bliss, infinite love and thus enlightenment itself. I say finding because for me it also makes sense that anything possible already exists in a way and all we do is get to it. Or the present shape shifts into it depending on where one puts his attention. And yeah, I'm aware that posting this message with hope to dig such a map into actuallity is not really different than meditating to find it more "by myself", but I just had to post it anyway. That's exciting, and that feels true.

Actually I think I kind of implicitly associate enlightenment with death and still crave for it... This hits the spot, I think there are things I'd like to do and don't just out of fear and morality.

For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the point you make is valid. I've always had the deep feeling that I existed before this life, and fleeting memories of a transitioning phase where I progressively started to believe in the current story I experience. I guess the very existence of others means they're experienced so you must experience them eventually.

Maybe that's the joke ?

Hi everyone ! First off I'd like to point out that I know writing this post is just part of delaying what I seek. I still feel compelled in a sense to share my feelings and ask questions so I'll do it anyway. Lately I've been feeling on the edge of a breakthrough, or dare I say it, maybe a first step to enlightenment. I feel constant progress in my mediatations and old feelings in my body are really begining to shift. I can observe myself more easily and perceive better what I currently identify as my ego. While I do i'm able to hold that inner image of myself, that I largely consider limiting, and see it change to something lighter and expand. I feel that if I continue exactly the way I do I might get wherever I feel I have to get. I don't know if my instincts are correct but the way I would describe my approch is like I'm digging inside myself to get to some pulling (even crunching) gravitational core I feel inside. Well anyway, here you got the context. Now on the other hand I still feel some confusing things. I have this deep "And then what" feeling that keeps popping. Si I meditate on it and it goes for a time. But in the end it really feels it's a crucial part of me. Some kind of nihilistic sollipsistic feeling that as a train of thought would go like: "Yeah ok, Infinity is great, how amazing is it that everything is possible. But then what ? It's all still a story, and instead of feeling alone and purposeless that's just what I am ? What's the point ? Do I expect to dwell in rapture, then get bored and go back to a frustrating story ? I get why I'm fooling myself with this lousy and lost ego, nothing better to do anyway, just enjoy the fucking ride" Maybe it looks really negative put that way, but I really feel like my whole life has this kind of premise hidden at its core. I do see where it's false, but it keeps coming back. That and the fact that I feel quite hermetic to basically anyone. It's not that I don't like people. But people I do like I don't know how to really communicate with and never really have. No need to mention those I don't know. The more I go forward in my spiritual journey, the more it seems obvious. I feel resistance from me. In a way it's like I actually want to be alone. I meditate on this, but it's really easily triggered. I mean it's to the point often someone would address me and I would feel anger. It also seems impossible to express to others how I conceive of myself and reality. Not that there is shame or whatever. It's beyond that, it just feels pointless and kind of off the point actually, and then it feels it's necessary. There's a kind of mental loneliness that I don't suffer from (Its part of what I've felt as myself from my earliest memories, some kind of metaphysical helplessness) but I feel it's hampering me. I guess that's why I'm writing this right now. Well I expected there would be more questions in this post. I'd be glad if some of you could share your thoughts on this, if any.

Thank you, this is a great reminder ! I get what you mean about the ego's stench, it's exactly that veil I was talking about. Maybe what keeps feeding it is, though identifying it most of the time, I often can't help but act on it. There is a great negative energy building that makes me feel like I would be lying if I don't say or do what I have in mind to differenciate myself from things that bother me. Every time the only thing I can do is deal with the consequences without giving more energy to it, which I manage a lot better. But on the long run it's starting to feel like a big joke . An other thing keeping the ego going I think is my push to meditate comes from a desire to get and stabilize that strange-loopy feeling of being a story telling itself to itself that I got during my spiritual awakening. Constantly being in that state while going about your day is what I see as enligntenment and I definitely have that desire inside me. How to make it short ? At the time I was very insecure about myself. I had no real self confidence, felt very akward socially and foud myself in a new work environment that I didn't feel adapted to. Add to that that I was clinging to the idea of a long and not so healthy relationship that had ended like two years before and mix it with a first take of MDMA (Which actually felt quite good and didn't seem to have a bad effect at the time) and about one week later ingested canabis (I had only done canabis three times before and it always had a very strong psycoactive effect on me. The first time it actually triggered my spiritual awakening. From outside though it definitely had a bad trip component to it, but I still view it as a good experience. Each time it kinds of stops time for me, I loose almost all sense of my body and find myself fantasizing about metaphysical concepts like nesting dolls realities, Inception style). Well I don't know if my body is highly sensitive to the drugs itself and I'm not on the materialistic side, so I would say my subconscious took over and I kinda let myself go in such a metaphysical fantasy. It was not really coherent but I was kind of imagining myself being inside a life large role playing game with a whodunit story. Clinically they identified that as a "bouffée délirente aigue", it's french for acute delirious surge, I don't know if there is a official translation. Anyways I kinda let myself go in it, I guess there was the tempation to escape the reality I was in. They gave me an antipsychotic and I rapidly stabilized back but it had an horrible deminishing effect on me, I felt mentally slow, which totally anihillated the little self confidence I had. I suddenly felt high anxiety about doing even the simplest daily tasks, thinking I was not up to it and I got into total idleness. tI took me some months to go out of depression, and I only started to feel normal again when I stopped the antipsychotic. I tackled my self confidence problem with a psychologist, which didn't help at all, then tried a few sessions of hypnosis. Though being totally open to it, it looks like I'm not suggestible at all since I didn't get into hypnotic trance once. I think I have to much trouble visualizing things. However these sessions created a positive mental state that pushed me to start mediation again and I finally came to the breakthrough where the "my focus determines my experience" thing became very true. Ruppert Spira videos, Alan Watts and Leo helped a lot too. Sorry for the long story, but that's about it

Hi everyone, I've been meditating for a few years now, after a spiritual awakening experience that totally changed my view of existence (yet it seems like it was just the begining of reminding something I knew before even my first true memories). Right know it really feels like I should exchange directly with people that are further on their spiritual path than I am to avoid spiritual ego traps. About two years ago, while recovering from a brief psychotic disorder followed by a mental breakdown I had a progressive breakthrough and found a definitive inner sense of stability and security. It seems very obvious to me that consciousness is eternal (which I have always intuited) and that nothing can really hurt me because there's actually nothing to hurt. I am mostly in a state where bad things can happen to me, my ego will still react but I don't really suffer because I manage to effortlessly keep an inner peace deep down. But that's exactly the point of my post. The more I go, the more I encounter situations where I notice my ego clings to certain ideas or habits. This is especially true in my relationship with my partner. It doesn't bother me in the sense that I still sense that inner peace stays anyway. But it seems the more I notice things, the more will pop up. In fact it actually gives me a pretty clear image of my ego, that I perceive like a kind of veil surrounding my consciousness. The thing is, this veil seems like it's always been here and I really have trouble perceiving through it or imagining things differently. I can mediate rather deeply, contemplating it and I definitely feel progress when I do, but the process seems to be endless. Along with the stable inner peace I feel I also sense a strong push to go deeper, I would even call it an urge. I have many thoughts and interrogations about this and I thought it was time to try and share them and see if someone can relate and maybe share insights : - I try to avoid ego traps but this urge begins to feel like my ego wanting to get rid of itself which looks like the biggest ego trap. - I really feel like consciousness or reality is formless and I view it like a kind of infinite fractal that I could possibly navigate. I have a strong feeling I have before (that's how I imagine bardos between lives) and that's actually a lot of what my spiritual awakening was about when I had it. I'm convinced that's what this urge inside me is about too but again, I'm worried that my ego wanting to relive an experience like that is the problem. Maybe the mere fact of seeking enlightenment and nonduality is. - All this leads to an other thought : when meditating I often go through a phase where nihilistic like thoughts pop. If I keep meditating on them they fade away and it becomes very clear that the point of all this infinitude is just to enjoy the ride. However that fucking ego is still here, trying to explain things, remembering some kind of history, conceptualizing(like you can see), and last but not least, wondering what it really should do with life for it to flow naturally and not feel separated. Actually I often feel like I could only attain complete enlightenment when I die but this again looks like ego. I'm eager to read your thoughts about this !