impulse9

Not through psychedelics. You unlock your own power and ride on its wings. Psychedelics are borrowed power.

I would tell you that nobody holds the key to your own enlightenment. Not Leo, not your favorite guru, not that tree in the forest whose bark looks like a human face. You and you alone are responsible for your own enlightenment.

The answer is a combination of yes, no, and maybe.

I never said you should blindly dismiss anything. This is a complex, nuanced problem and should be interpreted exactly as such. The problem with you is that you project the hardline anti-vaxx stance onto anyone who even remotely questions the current state of affairs. You claim experts are infallible. I'm an expert in my own field. I can't tell you how many bullshitters pass as experts. Stop pretending like this is some trivial issue where you're the one who gets to decide what I put into my body and then claim some kind of moral high ground. And let me reiterate that what you're claiming is against basic human rights. Nobody can force a medical procedure onto you unwilling, so stop with this militant attitude. Want people to get vaccinated? Maybe try a loving and gentle approach instead of moralizing and claiming people are stupid for thinking for themselves. That might actually work. What you're doing right now has the exact opposite effect, namely I'm even more convinced that I won't take it, ever.

Exactly the kind of mindset that leads people into years of pain, misery and general suffering when they decide that the psychiatrists opinion is worth more than common sense and end up horribly addicted to benzos. Blind faith in authority is extremely stupid. And have you even considered the opinion of the experts that claim the opposite to what the media is feeding you with? You dont trust experts, you trust the media.

I haven't done it so I can't say anything about DMT or any of its varieties. I will say however that I literally cannot imagine a stranger world than what Salvia throws you into. It doesn't blow the house down, it violently transports you into another dimension that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the things you know and love. I would describe my most potent trip as infinity spent with the spirit of Salvia, it's vague but that's my best description. It's by far the strangest, weirdest, most astonishing, most terrifying thing I've ever experienced in my life and it still deeply affects me almost a decade later.

Only because I've seen mostly reasonable comments from the skeptic side, and I've seen borderline militant, threating, and insulting comments coming from the forced vaccines side. If you think that being skeptical about what you put into your body is somehow a poisonous ideology, then I don't know what to say to you. Again, I'm off, no point in continuing this.

You shouldn't even use them honestly. I know, this sounds hypocritical but if I could go back in time and tell my young self not to use them as much, I would. Use them to get over the initial bump in spirituality, when the ego clings to material existence with such vigor that nothing else can really move it. That's when psychedelics shine, they can show you magic first hand, and that's extremely important, especially if you're not naturally spiritually gifted. But past that I don't believe they are useful at all, if anything they are a distraction from the true work. Meditation is far more magical than psychedelics to the point where it's not even in the same universe. That's why I said earlier that psychedelics look like childrens toys compared to actual enlightenment. But I also realize we're all on our own path, and I was stupid with psychedelics too, so I can't blame anyone for trying.

@Carl-Richard I am not claiming that the vaccine is ineffective. I'm not claiming that it's a part of some government plot or grand conspiracy. What I am claiming is that I don't trust taking it into my body, I prefer my immune system deal with it in the natural way.

There's a LOT of weird circumstances around them @Carl-Richard. I won't get into it because I don't want to piss you off more than you already are, but here's just one thing that bothers me: And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'll spare the rest as I said, and actually I'm done with this thread. Seems to me like I came in wanting to share my opinion and I ended up caught up between two sides who blame and refuse to listen each other. It's not loving behavior and it's not wise dwelling on this any further. I apologize to anyone I may have potentially offended with my posts.

Wow, that sucks. Sorry to hear that. I really have no idea what to suggest in that situation. All I can offer is my sympathy.

@Raptorsin7 That is true, I've recently had my first LSD trip, and it refreshed my memory since I haven't done psychedelics in years. However, about a decade ago I went on a true psychonaut spree lasting for at least 5 years or so. I've done plenty of psychedelics, the vast majority of which were mushrooms - and in large doses, mushrooms are equally potent to anything you can find out there, I guaran-fucking-tee it. I also haven't done DMT, but I have done Salvia extract maybe 20 or so times, and I dare to say there isn't a psychedelic on Earth more powerful than it. I've done a bunch of others too but I don't want to turn this into a dick measuring contest. I believe I know the psychedelic playing field much better than you do, at least according to the nonsense you wrote in this thread. And I also believe Leo hasn't really figured it out either. The only reason for why I'm saying what I'm saying is to warn you, but I'm sure you won't listen to me anyway. In the end you'll reach the same conclusion that I did, and so will Leo. That psychedelics lead nowhere at all. You were always here, you just forgot about it. Feel free to respond with another borderline derogatory projection, I'm done here.

Nobody here is claiming anything of the sort. I've not seen even the slightest resemblance of anyone claiming they want people not to get vaccinated. If anything, the reverse holds true. You, and a few other people, insist that people _should_ get vaccinated, and get very militant whenever someone claims that they won't. It's literally against the law to force a medical procedure on someone unwilling, what you're saying here goes against basic humans rights. Furthermore, you don't speak for neither history or science. God knows I respect you for the wisdom that you've freely shared with the world, but right now you're the only one here being a fool. I say this not to be an asshole but in hopes that you will reconsider your position on this. No one's claiming anything against vaccinations, what we're claiming is that no one except us should be in control of what goes into our bodies which isn't unreasonable at all, given all the circumstances around these vaccines.

I've done more than enough psychedelics to know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm fairly sure I've done more than you, and I've definitely done more than Leo. These substances will give you noting but a false sense of enlightenment. Half of you here don't realize what kind of powers you're invoking with these. They lead nowhere and they aren't free either.

No, it cannot be. There's 0% chance that prolonged psychedelics use will lead you anywhere, I'm sorry. You're either going to go irreparably mad, or you're gonna get a case of severe ego inflation, or worse. I don't think you fully appreciate the scope of what you're claiming here at all. You're claiming that a substance that completely eradicates your ego and transports you to another world can be used willy-nilly without any consequences. Nothing in this world is free, my friend, and psychedelics may not be as bad as other hard drugs but the fact remains that they are still a hard drug at the end of the day. If you think they lead anywhere, you're deluding yourself and I can't blame you since Leo himself claims this. But he's wrong. Also, you can question Watts all you want, the bottom line is that he spoke from the heart and that's all that matters in the end.

Fully agreed @Gennadiy1981, people who cheer this forceful coercion of vaccines have no understanding of neither science nor history. They talk about slippery slopes but they do not see the slippery slope of losing your freedom one piece at a time. They've been successfully scared by the media and now they fully believe the bullshit they've been sold, and are willing to step on anyone's opinion because they feel justified, they feel they're the saviors and people who resist are simply misguided - well, good luck convincing anyone with that approach.

And you're the arbiter of truth, aren't you @Loba ? All that's gonna happen with the approach you just described is you're gonna piss off an enormous amount of people and then they'll eat you alive. Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither. More unfounded hysteria. Fear sells well.

Uhm. Actually once you get your data from your microscope, there's very little reason to keep using that microscope, unless your data is corrupted.

I'm not - I've been vaccinated many times in the past.

I would fake them with pleasure.

Fair enough. To me Watts isn't a teacher, he's closer to a rockstar in the sense that his talks are beautiful and a joy to listen to. You wouldn't say Jim Morrison wasn't a fantastic singer just because he had a massive drug problem which resulted in his death. Look at the message and not the messenger is my approach.

That doesn't invalidate his wisdom at all @Raptorsin7. And for what it's worth, he never claimed to be a spiritual teacher of any sorts, in fact in many of his talks he specifically addressed that. He labeled himself a "spiritual entertainer". I still think he was incredibly wise, regardless of his personal problems. We all have personal problems. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.

The topic is about vaccine coercion, I've simply stated that I do not believe in being forced to put something into my body that I do not willingly agree to. And I agree, I'm mostly wasting time here. Sorry for lashing out at you @Flowerfaeiry.

"Stance of vaccines" oh right, so I'm supposed to just play along and whistle merrily? When all of you decide that jumping off a bridge is your default stance, should I do that as well? And here I thought wisdom is about questioning beliefs. Good. I do not want to change anyone's mind. Nor do I moralize to anyone about their own decisions as to what they believe is the right course of action. But now focus that same criticism of yours onto Leo and see if it holds too. He's literally called me stupid, and he's called anyone who decides not to get vaccinated stupid as well. Is that supposed to be wise? Is that supposed to be intelligent? Who's trying to change whose mind here? Unbelievable hypocrisy from your part @Flowerfaeiry. And I've been nothing but respectful in this thread for the most part. But even I have limits.

And how the fuck do you know how much work I've put into anything? And I'm sorry for the F word but Jesus Christ, you claim this is not a cult, well maybe allow actual discourse and disagreement with the dude. I respect Leo as much as the next person but I will not compromise my own integrity and my own thought process just because he claims something. He's fallible, we all are.