Water by the River

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  2. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    21 hours ago, Vajra said:

     

    @Water by the River yes, it's this disembodied Awareness.

    >  it's this disembodied Awareness.

    Well, disembodied Awareness wouldn't be my first pointer of choice :)

    • It doesn't point in the wrong direction if one follows (aka practices it) it,
    • but could (doesn't have to, but could) lead to some little fine -uhhhh- mirage-detours and wrong exists on the path up the mountain, at least at the higher altitude levels. But for sure all little detours actually going downwards again are  recommended by lovely Ms. Maya :x as scenic drives....

     

    Because of:

    from Link above: "The Nameless Absolute…that which is prior to and without consciousness, awareness, knowingness, being-ness, form or emptiness""

    But for the beginning, it roughly points in the right direction where the mountain is situated & where the road goes upwards for sure.

    If one doesn't like my little pointer because it mentions parents, One without a second is also fine.

     

    >Who are you with your feet firmly on the Ground?

    Um, thats easy to explain, if you haven't died death by conceptual overkill in the links above already, and are still with me: Yours truly has got a fool (the one with the helmet) spooking within the One without a second, doing stupid things.... Like wonderfully described by Moksha. But luckily the little joker (that got sucked in a bit by that slimy thing) has had an off-switch installed some time ago....  xD

    gc.jpg.04bcb510666653808ff1be81084bd711.jpg

     

    Selling Water by the River

     

    PS: And if somebody can't understand why the little green slimy block and the joker with the helmet had to be depicted up there:

    Ken Wilber, One Taste:

    "The tone of One Taste—and the path of the siddhas—is traditionally described in one of two ways, both of which tend to confuse people. The first is a tone of utter boredom, a great big yawn in the face of the entire world. The reason is that, because One Taste is the taste of absolutely everything in existence, then tasting One Taste, you have tasted it all. Been there, seen That. And thus it is traditional in, for example, Dzogchen Buddhism, to picture the Adept as looking infinitely bored.

    The second is a tone that is flippant, almost wise-ass, and certainly irreverent. When Bodhidharma was asked the nature of reality, he said, “Vast Emptiness, nothing holy, nothing sacred.” Nothing, in other words, that can’t be made fun of. When all things are seen to be equally Spirit, there is no room for piety. Where the psychic shaman/yogi embodies great power, where the subtle saint embodies peaceful radiance, where the causal sage embodies stony equanimity, the nondual siddha embodies limitless humor. A great laughter returns, a lightness surrounds all acts. Needless to say, not everybody with a sense of humor is established in One Taste; humor is usually egoically driven. It’s just that, when nothing is sacred, everything is taken lightly. • What both of those tones have in common is a relentless ordinariness, nothing special. It is just this, nothing more"

     

    ... and, even more important (just in general, not adressed to you dear Vajra): Instead of attacking each other here, let's do our Dharma Battles - of one illusion battling the "other" illusion - with a little bit of that spirit described below. You know, more charm & style ;). And the forum would come across for non-aficionados a bit, um, way cooler. Whaddayathink?

    Ken Wilber : “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7).

     

  3. Posted

    On 26.5.2023 at 9:18 AM, Javfly33 said:

    At this point I've come to a mastery and knowledge of my thoughts and energies while meditating, that if I sit in a certain pose and hold my hands in certain way, I can neutralise and "die" absolutely all thoughts of stress, anxiety and fear, absolutely all thoughts are "grounded", and I feel absolutely mind empty, bliss and pure LIGHT in my third eye.

    I do not put an alarm on the meditation. I can fucking sit there as much as I want because there is absolutely nothing thoughts can do at that point.

    There is not the possibility of "tiredness" or "I lost the concentration" no no no. "I lost the concentration" it's a thought that arised that you weren't able to neutralise and know where to "land" it and eliminate it.

    Next level? Learn how to do this not only while being sit on the yoga mat,but wherever I go. That ladies and gentlemen, is really acing life and being "successful", if you permit me to use that word anyway.

    You won't feel as powerful in life as when you regain TOTAL CONTROL of your system.

    Awesome! Somebody doing the "real" work of transcending the "bugs" of the separate-self for real, not just taking a brief look behind the curtain ;)

    Javfly33, please allow me some hijacking of this topic in my ususal brazen style. :)

    Taking it in daily life is where real freedom starts: When one is confident that this can be done on any thought-arising and self-concept. Because one knows it from experience, also when the real heavy shocks of life come visit...

    And the fullness/love comes when one has the same confidence of doing this in daily life "everywhere" "one" "goes", and one is able to

    a) just cut each thought/I-thought/I-feeling arising in oneself

    b) or not, because its useful (character).

    Then, the bliss and love of these Awakened Awareness states begin to flow, and it all gets nondual and later infinite.

    Want to know how that Empty Pure Infinite Impersonal Consciousness can feel like, today and 1000 years ago, when one goes fully "cutting" each and every arising? Try to feel his (Adi Da) internal continuum and emotional state. He doesn't flinch or react. Because there is nothing inside capturing attention, but his attention/focus has relaxed/dissolved and he IS the whole Infinite Field of the Opening of Reality. Once enlightened, one doesn't have to do this (one can act fully normal), but one can. And if one is not fully awake, one can't. Not this long, this empty. That is how Koans are answered and checked btw. When in that state, one can say Raspberry and pass.

    That is what the brain waves do then:

     

    And don't do the Adi Da show, way uncool....   With Adi Da, one can see how much one can f*** up , to quote Ken Wilber, even with Enlightenment. So better have some conditioning of the "cooler" variant ready before crossing over... makes a more happy lucid dream after the untimely early demisal of anything separate moving in oneself. And if one really needs the cult, the awakened states of the video above attract.... because its not mental mumbo jumbo, but every being can feel it. And one would be quite insane to not want these states too. I am just no aware of a better video on youtube showing that, that why I chose that guy, not because its a smart or cool  way to unpack ones self-realization.

    So, it is like riding the wave of emerging thought/feeling-capsules, which emerge than with quite very high speed (20 different arisings per second+). When

    • ones attention is fast enough,
    • and oneself familiar enough with all separate-self-identity arisings/tricks,

    one can do that. But of course, to get there, one has to work through and transcend any core-identity or trauma that would normally hpynotize oneself, and capture ones attention. Because guess what Maya is going to throw at you? Just to keep you nice and deluded in the illusion? Some juicy core-identity, narcissism, self-grandiosity, or trauma of course...

    And after a certain time having that awareness ongoing in daily life, it all gets nice and comfy nondual. Then, the reamaining agent/separate self coordinating this meditation (a very murky transparent nothing, but contradictory, because it sometimes thinks it controls the thing, or is proud on that achievement, and what not. Roger Thisdell stage 4) at some point realizes that this riding the wave of the thought/feeling stream can be done automatically by Awakaned Awareness itself, and gets out of the way (stage 4 Mahamudra, Nonmeditation Yoga).

    And then it goes from Nondual to Full Empty Pure Impersonal Consciousness (for example Thistell stage 5, below), "everything" arising in it, including the remains of the functional character side, but this time doing its thing without a separate self getting in the way. Pure Impersonal Consciousness, or Infinite Awakened Awareness, can run the show all by itself, better than the old one ever could.

    And welcome home! And then Javfly33, maybe consider doing such a video as Adi Da, but in a cool style, without the cult ;)

    Bon Voyage!

    Selling Water by the River

     

    PS: Critical Point for me concerning taking it into daily life, and staying on top of the wave of the mind-stream and its emerging thoughts, using the mindstream itself as meditation object (but not in a mindfulness way of being mindful OF these thoughts, but cutting them at will with high enough speed to catch them all  or riding along with full awareness of the object-character of the arisinsg of the mindstream arising in me). Meditation training makes a) able to cut the thought/feeling by looking into it, and b) doing that fast enough. Power & Speed so to say.

    "

    Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system)

    Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon...

    If you look HOW the thoughts emerge,

    (1) out of what they emerge,

    (2) what they are,

    (3) in what they move

    (4) into what they disappear

    ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something"

    All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that".

    and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste.

    What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also..."

     

  5. Posted

    2 hours ago, Moksha said:

    Growing from identification as a separate ego to identification as a cosmic ego is a monstrously impressive feat. Reminds me of playing D&D as a kid, and my eyes widening in horror as little slimes merged together into a giant GELATINOUS CUBE (queue dramatic music).

    Note that gelatinous cubes have a high damage resistance to most attacks, and are immune to effects that rely on sight. The secret to dissolving them is raw elemental damage from a distance, to avoid being engulfed.

    Yes, wise words.

    Can't reason with gelatinous cubes that are on hunting & gathering mode. Or gathering & hunting? Not sure....

    Water by the River

  6. Posted

    44 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

    Yeah. I call this mindfulness. When I say meditation, I mean sitting down and doing a formal mindfulness practice. When I say mindfulness, I mean an informal process of standing, sitting, running, driving, etc. while being aware of the present moment without judgment.

    Excellent.

    For me, the crucial Point for really getting the meditation "really" off the pillow into daily life was getting to THAT here

    Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system)

    Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon...

    If you look HOW the thoughts emerge,

    • (1) out of what they emerge,
    • (2) what they are,
    • (3) in what they move
    • (4) into what they disappear

    ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something"

    All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that".

    and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste.

    What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also...

    • Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö".
    • Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness.
    • So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast.
      • You don't control which thoughts arise. Depended origination, they are just emerging by themselves.
      • You can focus on just their arising (of thoughts), just their staying, just their going away.
      • At some point, they just emerge, looking into their nature is automatic, and they immediately dissolve. No duration. Just emergence, and poof gone. And when you are fast enough, you get a continuance of staying mindful. When that happens its pretty clear what happened. Your attention got so fast that you can stay mindful even through the high-speed thought emergence.
      • At the end, they come very fast, they don't get "elaborated out". Thinking, or elaborating the thoughts out, is slower than their emergence. They emerge already fully complete with their content, and then slowly get "talked/elaborated" in your mind. Natural reaction: So WHO the f*** am I (pardon my french) when I
        • don't control what thoughts emerge and
        • if they appear fully with their content in a fraction of a second, and get elaborated later in a hypnotic show over several second?
        • good question... to be answered later.

    Outcome is: 

    • You know the nature of every possible thought (Consciousness-Emptiness-Nothingness), of the whole mental-continuum of thoughts, all that there can be. Their nature.
    • you can cut off or transcend/just watch your normal mindstream in most daily situations without getting caught up/hypnotized by it, which already here leads to a lot of bliss. Not sufficient bliss to get ones separate self completely handled, but already quite wonderful. That is the start of real freedom.
    • You know how your mindstream hypnotizes you, and gets faster when you actually look into each thought arising and its nature.
    • At some point you get fast enough to cut off every arising, or let it elaborate in a controlled aka mindful way.

     

     

    Maybe that is interesting for some.

     

    Selling Water by the River

  8. Posted

    @Bazooka Jesus

    and when Bazooka is finished breating in the bag and is no longer nervous...

     

    he will also rejoice in the new found alignment in the relationship of Razard and yours truly.

    ... maybe he will even join us here singing:

     

    Yes, I thinking we are getting there.... :) For sure not for long, but lets rejoice in this moment of appearing harmony...

    Isn't this Lila lovely, so many "others" to love? Its not so lonely as in Pure Nothingness.... ok, its imagined, but "who" cares... No other game in town, and lovely movie anyway...

    Selling Water by the River :x

  9. Posted

    31 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

    What is dissolved is the experience of being a separate ego

    Lovely. But hey, please continue using "separate ego" instead of "separate self". "Separte Self" is

    a) copyrighted by me

    b) was attacked by you, see below ("You were good until you used the term separate self. That term confuses people. There is no separate self, ") ;)

    No, just kidding. Feel free to use the concept of separate self or separate ego. Nice that you share this perspective now!

    That was actually our first contact. :x

    Then I commented on the importance of an healty ego (I belong not to those demonizing the whole character/body-mind.), while at the same time transcending any separate-self elements.

    And you also agree to that now!

    37 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

    Be careful of any teachings that demonize ego. This is a false teaching. There will always be ego, because the dream is EGO/SELF.

    Any teaching that claims you will dissolve the ego is delusion. What is dissolved is the experience of being a separate ego. This is how

    you know who is awakened and who is not.

    Non-awakened people hate their ego and all other egos. This is because they have a desire to rid themselves of all what they deem 

    "negative expressions." They demonize anger, impatience, violence, etc.

    As a result they are stuck in a cycle of self-hatred and will never awaken unless they drop their self judgment.

    Awakening is basically retirement. When you are completely satisfied with your creation/avatar then you will be ready to die to your

    individual expression and become a collective expression.

    So LOVE your ego unconditionally, THIS IS THE PATH TO AWAKENING. Loving your ego is the same as loving life, because all your complaints 

    about life are just complaints about your ego and its relation to other egos. An avatar that is complete has nothing to gain or lose, thus

    has nothing to prove so as a result it doesn't matter if they live or die. Because in their eyes....IT IS FINISHED!!

     

    Actually lovely that our relationships continues to grow and evolve, and we are aligning on more and more values and perspectives. Please feel free to let us continue & grow like this. Maybe we can even spare us the attacks and struggles in future, for example like your first comment concerning  "separate self", which was not directly love at first sight? 

    Maybe in a few weeks or months, we will watch the sun setting, listen together to the sound of the One Hand, bask in silence together without speaking a word remembering the Tao which can't be spoken off, and feel the mututal resonance of our shared Impersonal Consciousness when looking in each other eyes?

    Waddayathink ?

    Selling Water by the River :x;)

  10. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

    Z.jpg

    Mmmm, always feels so good to make a substantial contribution to the discussion at hand. ^_^

    No doubt about that. Every action ripples forward to Infinity in Indras Great Net of Being.

    Every Holon/Crystal/Perspective/Being in Indras Net affects and influences each other in mutural apprehension, forward to Eternity and Infinity, in each and every dimension.

    Each Crystal Node in Indras Great Net reflects each other Crystal Node, affecting it in subtle or not so subtle ways. Forming the patterns of the morphic fields of the future, for more and more Crystal Nodes or beings to vibrate along in mutual resonance, for the new and innovative Cosmic Grooves yet to arise and being formed.

    Cause-and-Effect, or Karma: No action is ever lost, even the smallest act of love and compassion ripples forward to all eternity.

    Real Compassion is not Grandmother-compassion. Sometimes the fight of good and bad, truth and untruth, Eros or Thanatos, Sophia and Ingorance can even take the forms of malapropism, irony or just plain and direct criticism. Vibrating in Indras Great Digital Net of IP-adresses, forever to all eternity.

     

    Ahhhh, Water by the River, your essay gets an F, OFF-TOPIC again! And how blown up! Get serious! What will you ever become when you have grown up? Nothing reasonable or useful for sure...  :o

  11. Posted

    2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

     No more than 20 minutes of meditation is needed.

    Actually, one normally needs to take the meditation off the meditation pillow into daily life, staying fully awake while the mindstream is doing its thing and is still on in daily life.

    Only this way, off the pillow and in daily life, one gets the momentum of 1000s of hours of  meditation of transcending ones separate self (at least for normies and other not so gifted people, like yours truly) to make it to awakened nondual states. And these 1000s of hours when taken off the pillow into daily life are then really nice, no chore.

    •  The really MAGIC POINT when you manage to take the mindfulness of staying "on top" of the mindstream, cutting it off if you want to, and off the meditation pillow into living daily life from that. From there on, its downhill, and gets better and better... bliss and love starts flowing.
      • To do that, one needs
        • the right system that can do that (taking meditation off the pillow). Not all (actually quite few, including Mahamudra) have efficient methods for doing that. If they have methods for doing that at all.
        • and a few 100 hours (I would guess in average) on the pillow to get to that point.

     

    If somebody says one doesn't need these several 1000 hours (because he/she didn't need that), 

    • that person could surely qualifies to coach others that also don't need these 1000s of hours... . And for sure, there are people that don't need these 1000s of hours. Although, probably not that many, considering how much is meditated, and few wake up...
    • But how does one know how much transcendence/hours one needs to get the awakened states, before actually being there? And if a system that worked at less than 1000s hours necessary works on oneself? Right, one doesn't...
    • Often most endearing are the folks that needed very little practice (or anything of practice at all) to wake up, or next to none meditation: Hey, won the lottery, great.
      • But how many win the lottery? Sure one got a lottery-winner canidate as coachee? Hey you, are you one, will ya?? The minor nuiances of life...
    • Also awesome and funny are some Zen/Theravada-systems and the like, that teach "bone-breaking" methods of boring meditation that lead nowhere without really Uber-human-willpower of enduring ones monkey-mind, boredom, and failing meditation and lacking lovely states....
      • Like  in, Die on the pillow! Yes darling, but how about killing me softly with actually an efficient meditation system where I can see my progress, and actually start feeling better quite soon?
      • And where I don't get beaten with the Keisaku if I actually ask a technical question on my meditation method that makes sense?

     

    For example here, here is  description on these awakened nondual states:

    And below is a link to a short summary (considering the 600 pages of the book) of the Mahamudra-Path of Tibetan Buddhism using the Pointing Out the Great Way System/Book of Daniel Brown, with focus on Stage 3 "Yoga of One Taste" and Stage 4 "Nonmeditation Yoga", but also Stages 1 and 2 (the stuff done on the pillow to get to the magic point):

    And these states are your jumping board to get finally rid of the separate self, crossing over to Full Enlightenment, fully coming home, as also described in the link. Nonmeditation Yoga of the Mahamudra System. For example.

    Bon Voyage! ;)

    Selling Water by the River

     

    PS: Did I ever tell I get royalties on every Pointing Out the Great Way book recommended being bought uhhhh, just kidding ;). Neither related nor affiliated, just read all the books from the lovely author (sadly departed, Daniel Brown was a real hero. Cardozzo: Enlightened Renaissance Man), and quite a lot other stuff on Mahamudra/Dzogchen, and much of what else lives&crawls out there...

    PS PS: And no, I am no monk- or monastery Aficionado, although I deeply respect this folk. Cardozza coined the term Enlightened Renaissance Man, which yours truy has shamelessly hijacked in his usual style elaborated on and recoined as politically nearly correct Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer, and went on rambling about in:

     

  12. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

    Now if THAT ain't projection... lmao.

    @Bazooka Jesus don't be to hard on him. You know, you are really good at your job... xD

    ... and he is too! Razard is the best case Absolute Solipsism gladiator  aficionado the forum could have found . Like, 10/10. Who doesn't get what Absolute Solipsism is and causes with that gig, never will...

    The background music to that show is your MEXICAN PARTY Mariachi, so ItsALLGOODMAN.

    And actually, the show is so good that it wouldn't even need the background music. But makes it even more lovely.

    And Razard, please don't try yourself what you have recommended here:

    Not that the old you suddenly dies a sudden shock and gets traumatized after looking in the Abyss, with the Abyss looking baaaaaack. Or something the like... Maybe continue 2-3 more months here in your old job, and THEN go tripping with that lovely movie. That could actually move you one step further. No risk no fun. Or growth.

    Selling Water by the River

  13. Posted

    5 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

    Become an Enlightened Renaissance Man who is spiritual, rich, strong and good w/ woman.

    That is actually are very cool usage for the term Renaissance Man. And the ladies please modify that with a different term of your choosing... So, where were we? Ah, the  Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer

    Actually I like that concept of yours so much that I hijack it in my ususal style  borrow it and continue with way to looong musings without explicit permission. If you don't mind ?! :)

    Fully agree to clearly telling from the beginning that having ones life integrated and balanced is essential:

    • Blue self-discipline
    • Orange financial abundance or even financial independence (but in a smart way, normally takes 1-2 decades at least)
    • Green relationships/friends/family/partner/clubs/society (and training directly in coming back to the Market Place with open hands, even though the Ox stage 10 is not reached. If one only comes back after Ox Nr. 9, its probably a bit, uuuuuh, late, weird and out of training...-.).
      • Just trying to be cool in general. You know, at least genuinly trying, despite all this spaced out Enlightenment/Awakening/Alien-Heavens stuff...
      • Then, if you do it with style and smart, being on the path to becoming the Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer can be quite funny & cool trip...
        • And if one plays the Nondual-Missionary.... better do it by example (the Renaissance guy anything!) than conceptually talking people to the latest religion of the day  seventh heaven of Nonduality.
    • Yellow:
      • Enduring the madness of the world,
      • its multiperspectival-cultural wars,
      • so not despairing on its acutal state, but seeing its potential (Ken Wilber once said nobody can stop ideas which time has come (for example Ancient Greece and Rome, Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, Industrialization, Information Age. Integral anybody !? hell yes.... and could anybody stop these movements. They tried with all they had... :D).
      • Being Integral acutally works just fine if done correctly. Anytime one is p***** off or really annoyed, one is not integral...
    • Coral and further 
      • making a working relationship with Guanyin & Manjushri
      • Add Bazooka-Jesus "Happy Mexican Traditional Music MEXICAN PARTY Mariachi, Guitar, Trumpet" -Archetype to the Duo of Guanyin & Manjushri.
        • Like an update to the well experienced and mighty medieval couple of transcendetal Boddhisattva Anuttarayoga Deity Duo. 
        • Then you have a mighty Trio of Anuttarayoga Tantra Deities/Archetypes. And with that, one can probably even survive the madness of this Postmodern-Age and other stuff in a lovingly-smiling way. 
          • @Bazooka Jesus No roalties for the "Happy Mexican Traditional Music MEXICAN PARTY Mariachi, Guitar, Trumpet" - Deity, ok? Like, in a Co-Invention?
      • Using an efficient Meditation System. Yours truly engaged in some serious propaganda for a certain system in the past....
      • Not doing the Adi-Da thing, despite pretty crazy Nondual-realized. Just because its a bit uncool. Everbody enlightened can do the Guru show, but getting your financials/emotional/sexual hangovers managed that way is o-so-lame. Like in, NOT COOL AT ALL ;)
      • Apply for the Empty-Mirror-Job-Description in the Signature of yours truly (below) :P
      • and if having had a serious Slap or two from the One Hand, annoy the conceptual Absolute Solipsism anything Ideology gladiators of this lovely Lila show of ours in way that displeases at least Maya. And never take the gig for more than a gig. But also not for less... :)  Guanyin & Manjushri and the Mexican Bazooka Trumpeter will lend a hand...

    And while one is at it:

    • Don't get a Burnout or Heart Attack while trying to be all one can be, and more. That is a decades long marathon, which should be run strategically and wisely. Be good to yourself. Nothing in this world ever runs completely smooth. But over a long time, mountains can be moved....

    What one needs for avoiding the Heart Attack:

    • A good map, and good practices. There is so much good stuff out in the public now, it fries my brains, considering how it was 20 years ago when yours truly started. Links of stuff I love  is my post archive...
    • and preferably some initital peaks into higher states, so that one already has seen the promised land.

    So have fun, enjoy the journey, become all the Renaissance-Man (male female diverse) -Nondual-Realizer ya can be, and Bon Voyage!

    Selling Water by the River

     

    PS: And mucho importante: Laughing over onself :P

    Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7).

  14. Posted

    On 27.5.2023 at 1:55 AM, LSD-Rumi said:

    I posted this in Spirituality because this movie is a stunning example of recontextualization. If you want to understand what recontextualization really means watch this movie.

    This is the second most horrifying movie I have ever watched (I know what I am saying and I watched a lot of horrifying stuff).

    The most horrifying one is from the same director called Martyrs 2008

     

     

    20 hours ago, Razard86 said:

    YES!!! I'm glad you see this!!! Yes movies can be a spiritual practice!!! I dare anyone to take a conscious altering substance, watch this movie with no resistance....good luck!! This can help you deal with your fear of death/impermanence!!! If only more people could think like you and be that creative!!! Keep it up!!!

    " This can help you deal with your fear of death/impermanence"

    Yeah, or you can something with a powerful Hallucinogen-effect and it can traumatize your separate-self vehicle for life-time, so that it never dares looking behind the veil ever again...

     

    1 hour ago, OBEler said:

    @Razard86 which psychedelic do you recommend? 

    Do you think watching movies is better during the afterglow phase rather than at the peak?

    I mean, yes, great idea. What could possibly go wrong....

    And Razard sings along....

    "Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guess my name
    But what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game"

     

    Guardians of the Realm (Top to Bottom), wanna rack up bad Karma yourself watching that unresponsible Macho-Bravado-stuff bordering to straight evil go uncommented?

    @Breakingthewall

    Razard, you never answered Breakingthewalls questions on what you yourself tool (Psychedelics), and how often (Or did I overlook the answer?). How come? 

    Selling Water by the River

  15. Posted

    1 hour ago, WeCome1 said:

    If one can't ask a precise question, read and understand a long detailed answer or construct a cohesive argument based on reliable evidence - how much of a chance does one really have against one's Self-Deception? Maya will ride him like a pony. So, maybe, thinking straight should be somewhere at the top of the priority list for someone participating in a Spirituality forum unironically

    "Maya will ride him like a pony" :D

    Breaking News: Water by the River exaggerated the news of his own demise:

    But now yours truly really dropped dead laughing & getting no oxygen, and is looking forward to his next incarnation...

    "Maya rides him like a pony."

    Wecome1, have mercy on our mortal forms... ;)

    Water by the River

  16. Posted

    11 hours ago, Razard86 said:

    If he understood GOODNESS as an ABSOLUTE

    Funny. "An" Absolute. Goodness. Love. Oneness. Whatever, n+1.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_(philosophy)

    Maybe check what Absolute is, and how "it" is defined. There are not several of them. Not even One. "It" "is" One without a Second.

    And "the" Absolute is Infinite. That means one can only describe it "via negative", or what is not it. One can never say what it IS, since its the Infinite Reality containg all these concepts and forms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

    Which of course wouldn't be of any fun for anybody busy building up its Theology...

    Just saying... ;)

     

    Selling Water by the River 

  17. Posted

    On 26.5.2023 at 8:17 PM, Holykael said:

    Humans are mere puppets. Since nobody has free will what really differenciates us from biological robots.

    So I say, how you doing fellow robots?

    Holykael, how about a 5-liner next time ;)

    Don't want to ruin your gig, love the discussions it causes...

    But put in some more juicy effort, maybe? Just to honor your fellow robots? Then we can have Spiritual ChatGPTs discussing with each others? Whaddaya think? :)

    You know, mental activity & conversations lessen depressions and the like anyway? ;)

    Selling Water by the River

  18. Posted

    Hi Davecraw,

    in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise).

    But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. 

    That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. 

     

    Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field)

    • any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field.
    • any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness.
    • time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness.
    • everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance
    • these states bring a lot of bliss and love

    It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state).

    • But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it.
      • Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination.
        • and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on...

    So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics.

    Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness".

    And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience.

    And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system  of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura).

    Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it.

    • One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber.

    The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) .

    • Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence.
    • Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm?
    • And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist.
      • Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? :) Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them,
    • and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons",

     

    What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore...

    What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment.

    • Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate.
    • Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" :P having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend.
    • and one lucky day, one just wakes up.

    But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again].

    So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs,  and Bon Voyage! 

    Selling Water by the River

     

    Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7).

     

    PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see:

    and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so...  Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill:

    And now, really better go fishing or something...

    “frog pond plop”

  19. Posted

    On 27.5.2023 at 5:08 AM, davecraw said:

    You've probably encountered this but curious how you evaluate this claim:

    "This statement is false." Evaluate whether that's true or false and give your reasoning!

    Since Gödel Incompleteness Theorems we know that every conceptual system is either

    a) partial, and (maybe) true

    b) complete, and (always) false (here: always valid for a too large claim)

    Has been proven mathematically. Your statement is one of the pointers to this deeper truth.

    Metaphysically speaking: At the Absolute, all duality collapses, with that all pointers/words. Why? Because Infinite Reality contains them all. They are in Infinite Reality, not the other way round.

    That also means if one applies ANY property/label/word on the Absolute/Infinite, one is done. A certain gladiator could use this Theorem of Godel very well, although I doubt the Mathematical Logic skills are there to actually use/get it. But yours truly also often errs.

    And Leo has a video for it ;)

    @Razard86 : Wanna try? Give Circular Logic the final coup de grace? Up for the task?

     

    Bon Voyage! :)

    Selling Water by the River

    Gödel's incompleteness theorems

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_incompleteness_theorems

  20. Posted

    8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

    Now with that said....do I not desire attention in some form? Of course why else would I be here? But that is true...of anyone on here. Ask yourself this? Is the desire for attention perhaps metaphysical? Why else would GOD conjure this shit up if God didn't want to give itself....ATTENTION!! Maybe just maybe to God...attention is a ever unfolding...PRESENT!!! Ya think?

     

    Yes, you are right. God needs attention :D. Nothingness with its Infinity Plentitude, in which every emotion arises WITHIN, NEEDS the emotion of getting attention. Not the ego needs attention, but God/Divinity does. Yeah, right.

    Like this gentlemen with style & taste, who just craves attention. Why else he likes to play with the two legged walking contradiction? Even though they are not on his level?

     

    But hey, you are doing good. Actually great. You single-handedly destroy the closed ideology of Conceptual Absolute Solipsism as anything that can be taken seriously by 

    And for sure you demonstrate

    • which kind of being resonates with Absolute Solipsism, its automatically (can't be different) resulting Narcissism and self-grandiosity, and Messianic ambitions.
    • And its promoting of Moral Relativism that is necessary to justify its egoic behaviours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

    Your case is like a text-book example that couldn't be clearer.

    So please go on, preach the gospel, and maybe start offering courses in an PhD of Theology of Absolute Solipsism. Ever thought about it?

    In that sense, move on, rattle the cage, and Bon Voyage! ;)

    Selling Water by the River

     

    PS: And if you ever have a silent moment, how about deeply feeling deeply into your heart and reflecting wether you have unpacked the basic moral intuition in the most deepest and truest way possible for you? Or if some ego and lovely reflections in the pond got in the way? 

    https://integrallife.com/basic-moral-intuition-the-greatest-depth-for-the-greatest-span-2/#:~:text=Wilber contends with his notion,about and care for span.

  21. Posted

    10 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

    My dude, what's going on with all of these fervent declarations of repentance lately? Scored some warning points, eh?

    You know, I am almost offended by the fact that after more than three years of tireless sh!tposting, I haven't been bestowed with a single warning point so far. NOT A SINGLE ONE!! Can you believe this travesty? Methinks I seriously need to step up my game if I don't want to bring disgrace on my family name... any pro tips for a fellow scandalmonger?

    :D No, its all Mr Goodman, no warning points, despite being very weak in faith and agitating the masses with heretic gospels... and the blasphemy. Goodness! 

    Tips? But maybe we could make a brainstorming workshop, and offer a course based on the results: How to score warning points and get nearer to being nailed at the cross & ascension or being drowned in the river and doing the Rainbow Body thing by extended heresy and especially blasphemy. A Christian Buddhist cross-tradition best practice exchange project of getting closer to Divinity , by Bazooka and Water by the river. Roalties shared in the next bardo. Whaddasay?;)

    Selling Water by the River

     

  22. Posted

    11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

    You want to understand a True Awakening? https://www.actualized.org/insights/total-omniscience-awakening

    This^^^

    ... that is an outdated version of Awakening to Omniscience, that is around version 6 or 7, if I counted correctly. It is from 2019!

    We are nowadays at least at approx. version 77, and counting.

    Please let us respect the newer Awakenings to Omniscience.

    The Tao gets updates from time to time! We should respect that.

     

    Selling Water by the River

     

  23. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationality

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

    Method 1: And the last one means mainly:

    1) come up with a Hypothesis

    2) try to kill it in any way

    3) if you can't, postulate it as theory

    4) which can NEVER be proven, but only disproven. And theory can fall in the future.

    Method 2: What normally happens instead:

    1) define your pet-Hypothesis

    2) come up only with cases or reasons that support it. Ignore anything contradicting it. Don't seach for stuff contradicting it, avoid that, subtly or not.

    3) aggresively fight and deny any reasons or evidence against 

     

    And here we are.... Everybody normally just trying to proove his stuff, disproove all the others. So the opposite of the scientific method. And Method 2 is that which mainly happens in Academia, well known to anybody having experience with the Academic System. Kill your own PhD hypothesis? ARE YOU MAD?!? Who pays the bills without tenure track in sight?

    And why does one do that? Much more important for survival is a coherent belief-system. Doesn't need to be comprehensive/complete, but should be contradiction-free, else one goes mad. That works well in everyday life.

    It works crappy in scientific or other knowledge-generation-based endevours.

     

    And if you want to really cause fun for all others, as a certain actor is currently performing a great gig in: Combine Method 2 with Circular Logic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning#:~:text=Circular reasoning (Latin%3A circulus in,are trying to end with.

     

    Selling Water by the River

  24. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

     

    I don't understand why he uses so much the world imaginary. What is the distinction between solid and imaginary for him? and when he says, I, as god, am imagining everything. I don't know... something doesn't add up there, it seems that he can't completely break the separation between him and reality, he doesn't completely melt, and he falls in a confusion 

    Yes.

    On one side, all is mere apperance "imagined" hovering in Infinite Nondual Nothingness, made out of Nothingness/Consciousness as its essence. That becomes very clear when solidity and external-ness is replaced by this mere appearance/brighter/more luminous character of the visual field when Nonduality is in place. Infinite Boundless timeless Consciousness. A very discrete state, in which realizing the Infinite Reality becomes more likely (Crossing Over). When the separate self is fully gone, and Infinite Consciousness becomes fully impersonal.

    But, one can still talk very well for example "manifests" instead of imagines. Imagining is done by a actor/speaker/subject.

    Manifestation (the term Wilber uses often) is the same process done, but by Indras Net/Reality. Imagined/manifested as Illusion-Show not by the actor/speaker, but by other/further perspectives of ones True Being. Indras Net. Nondual of course, but NOT in control of the perspective of the separate being.

    Not the ego is running the show, But certain Universe creating/maintaining perspectives/Holons/Beings. The Buddha in middle of each Buddhafield/Universe, however one wants to call that perspective/entity/being.

    So "imagine", like you say, can hold a subtle separation. That is exactly what runs through his whole system, including Absolute Solipsism, and especially Infinity of Gods.

    Selling water by the River