Water by the River

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Posts posted by Water by the River

  1. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

    @Leo Gura

    You're holding enlightenment as a "thing" (relative), that is presumably mediated by brain chemistry. If it's absolute, it isn't a thing. Do you think enlightenment "happens" when the right chemicals are in place? Is enlightenment lost after the "right" chemicals change? You may be talking about a change in state, which is always temporary.

    His work is also aimed at understanding the relative domain -- transformation, healing, empowerment. Peter isn't saying that certain activities can't help or that they're useless, but that nothing produces direct consciousness but you.

    Exactly, he's saying just that: nothing -- no activity, process, method or accomplishment -- can take you to the absolute because enlightenment isn't relative nor is it a process. Nothing done within a dream can wake you up. Best you can do is contemplate with the intent to make a leap in consciousness which is always direct.

    The point is that the brain, genetics, methods are irrelevant here. By that logic a certain brain chemistry has to occur before awakening happens. There's no such thing as requisites to awakening except you becoming conscious.

    Yes. All there is is Suchness, or Consciousness. Nondual. "IT" is also the only consciousness "thing" that can perceive anything. Since there is only "itself" (all appearances, every world/dimension), It can only perceive "itself". Normally as an "other", not nondual.

    But that also means, since "it" is the only consciousness "thing" there is: "It" can only understand itself. There is nothing else.

     

    "Enlightenment is an accident. Practice makes accident prone.":

    We can call that "accident" of Enlightenment whatever we want: IT/Absolute is also infinitely intelligent, and an infinite network of perspectives/holons within Indras Net has to align/"approve"/whatever before ones perspective (the sentient being/you) understands/gets what "It" is ("Full Enlightenment").

    There is nothing to be done at THAT point of practice, because any doing would be an arising/movement of thoughts/intentions in consciousness. An a movement of thought/ego is FORM, an appearance, and arising, starting-moving-ending IN THAT/Consciousness/Reality/You. So that is not "It".

    At the right state, it can happen. That state needs to be cultivated normally over a longtime (practice makes accident-prone).

    From (for example a description from the Mahamudra-system, but that step-logic of practice is in most systems): Yoga of One Taste  (=already nondual) cultivating that state in which the accident can happen, to Yoga of Nonmeditation, in which all activity is stopped, and the meditation does itself, keeping the field nondual, boundless, timeless, mere appearance. In that state the reckognition can happen.

    When God/The Absolute/The Totality of Indras Net "aligns" and "says yes", "you" get enlightened (the accident). At that point it is grace, Karma, brain chemistry, an act of all of Reality/the Universe/whatever one wants to call it. God/Being/Reality suddenly understanding itself in THAT perspective that is your mindstream of this life. And its impersonal, its not what you think what you are, but what you really are. And the fact that its impersonal is not bad at all...

    And if Absolute Reality "says":  No. Then not today darling... Please more preparation for the "accident". Then, not today darling... Even with DMT.

    Ok, probably I have confused pretty much everybody with the twisted musings above, but maybe it is useful for some.

    Water by the River

     

  3. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I declare just the opposite. Suffering is the heaven. Existence is.  

    Reminds me of a joke:

    A guy dies and is sent to hell. Extremely frightened because of that, he is very surprised when he arrives; beach, palm trees, sun is shining, happy people around in shorts and bikinis. Behind the next corner there are people eating great food and there's some cool music playing. After some time of wondering, a man in an expensive suit approaches him and says: "Hi, you must be the new one. Welcome to hell, I'm the devil. As you're gonna spend eternity here, make yourself comfortable and have a drink. If anything bothers you, always feel free to ask me." The guy still doesn't really understand what's going on, this is not what he expected. But finally he decides to inspect the area. Everywhere he goes, there are people laughing and having a great time, there's games, party and fun all around. Then he arrives at a steep cliff that divides the paradise hell from an area underneath, and there is hell as we know it: demons torturing the doomed, there's fire and the smell of brimstone. Shocked, he runs to the devil and says "Devil, how can that be? Here, we have the sweet eternity and down there people are tortured and burned! How can that be?!" The devil laughs and says "Oh, that. That's the Catholics - they want it that way."

    5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    there is a thin nuance to what we are trying to express. maybe it's the same.

    Yes. Anyway, no big disagreements. You are on the path, which is all that counts. I am just making commercials of the lovely holiday-destination soon to be reached, so to say.

    9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I understand what you are saying about the contraction

    And understanding that is extremly valueable. The contraction that kicks in shortly before fully waking up while slumbering, if you ever had that kind of experience. It is a very real and feelable contraction in the head, that at least I couldn't dissolve when I first started noticing it while waking up. It is that contraction that evaporates into/"becoming" the visual field/Infinity when nondual awakened states start to begin/kick in.

    And when that contraction/self-contraction is dissolved during waking-life, suffering is just not more possible. Vast spacious tension-free Suchness of Reality, no thought-arising "gripping". It is that what one searches in every experience one normally seeks.

    It is that self-contraction/localization (often in the head) that psychedelics tend to blast away, among doing other stuff also.

    Imagine you could do that with just cutting your thought-stream and staying "on-top" of it, watching it (the thought stream) spool down in you, but not "gripping" "you". That is a wonderful relief, physically and energetically felt in the body. It is not escapism, its an additional degree of freedom to live ones life from that state.

    That is not the end of the story, a subtle identity (althought non-localized) is still left-over after this point, but here its starts to get really lovely.

    Selling Water by the River

     

  4. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

    While I'm not a Buddhist and I personally do a mix of Leo's methods, heavy meditation and other methods I think it's important to note that Buddhists are not into stopping thinking at all! No serious Buddhist actually claims that!

    They want to remove all emotional resistance from thinking/seperate thoughts and emotions from the rest of sensory experience.

    Even those "masters" that claim not to think eventually admit that it's actually more accurate to call it "thinking not thinking" - taking non identification as far as possible 

    Yes. As a very experienced meditator with longterm-practice and seasoned in Awakening one can do two things

    a) completely shut off the thought-flow: A high-speed cut-off at the beginning stage of a thought-emergence. The thought doesn't look like a thought in this earliest emergence phase of it, more like a ripening "seed" that is cut off. Lots of training until that point... And to continue that high-speed-cutoff of emerging thought "capsules" can stop the thought-flow completely. Until having had it, hard to imagine.

    b) second, and much more important: Staying lucid while thinking, "riding" with ones awareness on the thought-stream. Pretty impossible to describe, stems partly from the ability to do a) . That skill allows to carry the meditation/awareness into daily life.

    It also causes (due to its momentum in daily life more so than a), since one cant act/work without a thought flow running) the Awakened States of nonduality/one with the visual field, mere appearance (solidity of visual field removed), timelessness (time is imagined right here in THAT), boundlessness (any limit would be imagined in THAT. All of the states that psychedelics also cause. But "without the pill".

    And it also it cuts the separate-self-contraction in the head which just dissolves, opening up a flow of bliss that is so strong to just overpower the suffering that the remaining separate-self tends to cause in cycles.

    These are "hard" states of consciousness, not some wishful thinking or some soft states.

    The separate-self/ego main-building block is regular suffering/being unsatisfied, rejecting or wanting something that is not present in that state, seeking it, getting it or not getting it, and suffering again. 

    Water by the River

  5. Posted

    5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I agree with Leo that Buddhism is false, I wanted him to say exactly why he thinks it is false but he didn't say it.

    funny, hm?

    6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I tell you why I think it is false and where I see the error in your line of thought. For you there is a samsara, maya, from which you have to scape to enter the bliss of true nature. the principle of Buddhism: the end of suffering. moksha would agree with you. there is none of this, that implies a duality that is not real, it is illusory and that is why enlightenment and Buddhism are illusory. 

    When you hit yourself with a hammer on the knee that is also illusory. Same as with the separate-self that you mostly consider yourself to be during everday life (at least I assume). It hurts (not all the time, but regularly), and if you don't know how to switch that off and release the self-contraction, you are going to suffer. Illusion yes, but suffering.

     

    8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

     suffering and bliss are the same, they are different states of what you are. 

    yes. And? You prefer the suffering over the bliss?

    9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    spiritual work is not escaping from the wheel of samsara, there is no such thing. 

    Oh yes there is.

    It feels quite similiar what you get when to go for a trip. Except one doesn't need the psychedelic then. Dissolving the self-contraction/duality/suffering with on-board-devices, independend of the 5-MeO or whatever, and having a blissfull nondual state of infinite release. The visual field turning into mere appearance/clear light "hovering" in infinite consciousness. Ones true being, right here, right now. No more clouds of ignorance/self-contraction.

    The suffering IS the mechanism that never lets the separate-self or self-contraction stop seeking and suffering until it is dissolved in its True Being.

    14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    there is no such thing. It is to deepen in the now, in you, to the maximum, for the beauty that this implies.

    After doing that long enough, there is a deep switching point of identity and access to this flow of bliss. Its called Full Enlightenment. Look forward to it! That is actually way better news of your(!) Potential than anything you wrote of in your post. It is your own potential, your True Nature. I am not telling you to do anything different (as practice) than what you are doing right now, but just consider to stop declaring heaven inexistent. You know, its a grave sin listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to declare heaven non-existant ;)

    Water by the River

  6. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    41 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

    Is the ego's nature unfortunately. 

    I´m tired of saying: the mind will always keep you in circles, even if this are refined, profound circles, just elegant entanglement, of understanding and profoundness, one of the sneakiest traps to escape, we all at one point pass through that one. 

     

    Yes. I learned here to my amazement that telling about the possiblity of

    • opening up infinite bliss and release when the egoic self-contraction is dissolved/shut down (literally a contraction mostly felt in the head, and only felt as having been there when its gone),  the ignorant/wrong concepts are cut off, and the solidity of the visual field is replaced with mere appearance/clear light, in an Infinite Opening of Reality without any possible limits, and telling of
    • the bliss that that brings on a permanent basis whenever accessing True Nature (which is always here and can not not be here)...

    ...that all of that is supposedly not possible. Although I have the verification of exactly that every day. And although thousands of people across all times, centuries and cultures, across all wisdom traditions, tell the same.

    Honestly, what is left of small-me really rejoices in Big Me of the fact that "I" can verify that for myself without needing anything or anyone, or experiencing anything. Especially, i don't need any kind of -ISM anymore, which can only point the the moon, act as pointer. 

    IT, or the "moon",  is always right here. Can not not be here. And will eternally be here. Never lost, never found, only overlooked and clouded with ignorance and some other funny arisings hiding the Truth.

    Well, apparently every being is free to hug the spokes of the wheel of Samsara the egoic self-contraction, declare it God (and not contained within God), and affirm its inherent nature of suffering as the only spiritual goal possible, declaring that un-Truth as summum bonum. Well done, I know a gentlemen with style that would be proud of that....

    Well, God & Gods & Gentlement with style don't seem to get tired of playing that game anytime soon. Until then, lets enjoy the show...

    And now, annoying Water-by-the-River, would you please s*** **? :)

    Selling Water by the River

  7. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    I am saying something deeper which you and all your Buddhists are missing. Because you're not seriously thinking.

    hey, I wrote many times I don't consider myself "a" Buddhist. ;) Exactly because of the problems with the buddhISM you write about (and which are true for most other -ISMs also), and the rather not too many enlightened ones in the -ISM without the B. at the beginning.

    Although I have some rather tender feelings for that show of mine (B.-ISM) happening in Big Me. Sorry. Stepped too much on the absolute side of the street.

    Water by the River

     

    5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    Because you're not seriously thinking.

    True, I try to mostly practice not-so-serious-thinking nowadays.

  8. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Water by the River Those platitudes and cliches are not the same thing as seeing through Buddhism.

    It depends on who says these platitudes. From a certain perspective, they are very true.

    3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    See, you had to think just to generate those defenses. And it wasn't any kind of deep, serious thinking.

    ;). Indeed, I didn't have to do deep and serious thinking to come up with these statements. Because for me, and within Buddhism also, it is very clear that at some point the whole(!) conceptual(!) structure of Buddhism must be cut off/transcended/negated also. But better not before that point. That would be the Tony-Parson exit of the road up the mountain.

    Water by the River

  9. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    Uuum, lets assume Reality is infinite intelligent. Meaning Impersonal Infinite Consciousness manifests an Intelligence that holds Indras Net in itself, infinitely intelligent.

    And lets assume that:

    “Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.” 

    So Reality wants a certain mindstream/states(like boundless timeless infinite mere appearance infinite consciousness)/not-too-unloving-personality/maybe certain other stuff also... : The making oneself accident prone. And then the accident can happen. Its not for the separate-self to decide when precisely that happens.

    Like I wrote before, there are self-guarding mechanisms of Reality. Reality apparently doesn't want too many enlightened uncompassionate egotists basking 24/7 in the bliss of their true nature.

    And True Nature = bliss = shutting off the self-contraction in ones head, making the whole field groundless mere appearance floating in infinity, and infinite release a the snap of ones finger. That is just how it is, although many apparently don't like to hear it.

    Water by the River

  10. Posted

    57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    This is where I would suggest that you contemplate and think deeper. Buddhism is a sneaky and strong thought system, despite its pretenses to "no-mind" and so on.

    The irony is that it takes a lot of thinking to convince yourself that Buddhism is the ultimate path to Truth. And if you didn't do that then you wouldn't be a Buddhist nor would you hold Buddhism in high regard. You have to think in order to admire Buddhism. And then when I come along and viciously attack your Buddhist ways, you gotta do a lot of thinking to defend yourself.

    So this is very, very sneaky.

    Short form quote above Buddhist-style:  If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

    Short form quote above Advaita style: The spiritual search is like a stick that you use to move everything into the fire, and that it itself get's thrown in the fire at very the end.

    Short form quote above Zen style: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!

    Water by the River

  11. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    It takes so much consciousness and independence-of-mind to see through Buddhism. Which is why I warn about it. I am vocal about it because no one else is and it's so easy to overlook.

    Easy to overlook that 99,9%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened, and at least 99% of Buddhist teachers on the spiritual market place are not fully enlightened? Yes, the "success rate" of the Buddhist project is not good, not to say abysmal... But its a long journey over many (dream-)lifes, and the other spiritual systems/traditions are also not more successful. 

    And for the "masses", Buddhism teaches mainly compassion & love & integration into the world/society/other beings, or generally staying open and loving to all that appears in Ones True Being/Reality, which is the same as living a healthy life on the relative level. Dream? Yes, but a dream more on the happy side and not a nightmare-dream. Which is probably precisely what most souls need to learn in this round of the game. And which is necessary to stabilize Awakening. A big part of the Gateless Gate is made out of compassion. I myself was also like "hey, wake up, that is all relative-level-stuff, go directly to Awakening and so on, why so much about this Boddhichitta and compassion-teaching stuff and why not more emphasis on the real Awakening-teachings?", but over the years as I got older that changed a bit....

    Ken Wilber once said in One Taste:

    "First, although it is generally true that the East has produced a greater number of authentic realizers, nonetheless, the actual percentage of the Eastern population that is engaged in authentic transformative spirituality is, and always has been, pitifully small. I once asked Katagiri Roshi, with whom I had my first breakthrough (hopefully, not a breakdown), how many truly great Ch’an and Zen masters there have historically been. Without hesitating, he said, “Maybe one thousand altogether.” I asked another Zen master how many truly enlightened—deeply enlightened— Japanese Zen masters there were alive today, and he said, “Not more than a dozen.” (that statement from Katagiri was at least 30 years ago, probably rather 40. Nowadays its more for sure (and that quote should not cause any limiting belief), but still shows that one should not take the "Enlightenment" of the next Zen Teacher as the final thing. Chances are way higher that it isn't).

    Most Enlightenments/Awakenings are not full/deep Enlightenment (in Zen called Great Enlightenment), where there is no more doubt about the nature of Reality, God, Ones True Self.

    Water by the River

     

    @Leo Gura PS: Deep respect from my side concerning your last blog-post. That takes a very high degree of Integrity, Self-Reflection, and above all staying open. Very(!) few people could do something like that. So really deep respect for that, and hopefully I am not coming across in any way condescending or jovial in any way, because that is not intended. Whatever caused your suffering, I wish you all the best and a swift end of suffering, and a fast return to the bliss & pioneering exploration of the higher realms/dimensions!

    PSPS: Maybe you already know some of that material, but if not you will probably find these books quite interesting:

     

     

  12. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    physical or psychological suffering are ultimately the same, they are a sensation destined to want to avoid a certain situation, or to pursue a certain situation. It is a biological survival mechanism. The fact of being a person who is living a dual experience means that you are functioning in a limited state of consciousness, and one of its limits is suffering. When we talk about awakening we talk about breaking those limits, and therefore breaking suffering, but it is only possible to do this in a punctual and temporary way since you are still a human living a dual experience. this implies suffering and wanting to escape from it is to deny your will to live this dual experience. Obviously, if you are open to your true nature, you will easily endure suffering, but it will continue to exist as long as you are alive. The thing about the monk who is burned alive does not mean enlightenment, it means detachment and renunciation. Watch the fight between Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe. do you think they are enlightened? I would say no, and they endure something seemingly impossible

    I think we can agree on that I wish you (and everyone else) freedom from suffering, and the bliss of the True Nature each being has at its core.

    And the fact that I do know  that you underestimate your potential in being free from suffering and enjoying the bliss of what You really are is probably not one of the more challenging “lets agree to disagree”-topics.

    In that sense: All the best and Bon Voyage!

    Water by the River

     

  13. Posted

    14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

    Enlightenment can't come about as the result of a process. It is direct. There's nothing you can do that will bring it out, except becoming conscious now. You can focus on a question, aka contemplate. But this is meant to focus the mind, no method can possibly produce consciousness.

     

    Yes.

    Someone once said (don't know who):

    “Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.” 

    That is for example the essence of going from One Taste Yoga of Mahamudra (making the mindstream confirm (or compatible) to the True State of things, like infinite, empty or non-personal, non-conceptual, nondual, boundless, timeless) to Yoga of Nonmeditation of Mahamudra (where one stops doing anything, since "anyone" doing something is an arising in the mindstream covering Impersonal Empty Infinite Consciousness. And the insight of what one really is, and what reality is, is Enlightenment. Can't be forced, happens by itself when the conditions are exactly right. Yes, its tricky. But has a structure to it.

    But stopping doing anything BEFORE the mindstream conforms to a structure/state where Enlightenment can happen, one can do "nothing" for a long time and the accident/Enlighenment wont happen. Basically going fully Tony Parson.

    Water by the River

  14. Posted

    1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

    Imagine that they lock you in a cell and tell you that in one week you will be subjected to the most horrible tortures for another whole week. Wouldn't there be psychological suffering? of course. any of those enlightened would suffer, and it is completely normal and legitimate. it is a natural process. You, as a human, have a self-protection device that impels you to escape from those situations. it does so through a sensation that we perceive as suffering. there is no problem with that, it is something natural.

    If such a situation can't be avoided, one better is deeply rooted in ones nature. 

    That one here even shut down one of the most horrible physical pains possible. Burning alive, and didn't even flinch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức

    Just a humble question: Why not keep that topic OPEN until you can say you are enlightened beyond any possible doubt? Just staying agnostic concerning that topic?

    1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

    And not all spiritual traditions preach the end of suffering, only one does: the Buddhist.

    That is incorrect. All of them (the mystical traditions) teach some form of liberation and Enlightenment, or the end of psychological suffering.

    For example:

    Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha

     

    1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

    Buddhism is an anti-life religion. consider life as a curse from which we must escape, stop the wheel of reincarnations, and thus escape from what they fear so much: the suffering. it is a negative religion. focuses on nothingness, flees from everything.

    That may be true for some very early form of Buddhism, but that is not where Mahayana and especially Tantric Buddhism ended. It is very much pro life, pro-manifestation and living life, and nondual:

    https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/

     

    1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

     We could be deeply awake and suffer same time, accepting or suffering without problem.

    Maybe we just have a different definition of terms. I agree with the statement above, as long as suffering is defined not psychological suffering/psychological resistance on top of the suffering that happens. Like for example feeling sad if something bad happens. But a open sadness with open heart, not a closed heart of the ego/self-contraction, or resistance to what is. Ken Wilber has a nice article on that in One Taste:

     

    Water by the River

  15. Posted

    8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

    realizing infinity is only the beginning of understanding reality, not the end. there is no such thing as enlightenment or elimination of suffering. suffering is a mechanism of evolution of life. there will always be suffering as long as you are alive. there is no problem with suffering

    If you want to believe that you cut yourself off from the possibility of the end of suffering. That the end of suffering is possible is the message from all Wisdom Traditions, at all times, from all cultures. A universal message that you are declaring non-existant.

    Please excuse that I write that so directly.

    Why do you not stay agnostic on that topic until you have the Enlightenment that all traditions at all times in all cultures point to? On what they point to is universal. Denying or doubting that possibility is denying the Ultimate Potential of the Human Spiritual Potential. It is nothing else than denying your True Nature, denying the path that leads to it, with all consequences that entails.

    Water by the River

  16. Posted

     

    "Enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true directly conscious of what's true like what you are or what existence is"

    And that includes by definition the infinite potential for any possible form/appearance, arising in Absolute Reality.

    So what is higher and better, or more valueable? What is worth of ones ultimate spiritual concern? Understanding ever more form/appearance (n+1 forever), or understanding once and for all the Absolute Nature of ones True Self and Reality itself? And stabilizing in that realization, that becomes always available once having realized it?

    Not knowing ones True Nature is technically called Ignorance in many traditions, and leads to suffering. Waking up to ones True Nature ends the suffering.

    Water by the River

  17. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

     

    You are my hero man.  Absolutely hilarious as always.  Keep up the good work :)

    Gonna pull a @Water by the River move here:

    P.S. Clown Consciousness will be the final Realization.   You will roll around the floor crying like a little girl.   Don't take my word for it - do the work.  If you turn clownness into a belief or a religion, you have missed the boat.   Clown Consciousness is derived from deep within.  Stare at your hand for at least two hours a day for the next twenty years and you might have a shot at Clown Consciousness.    Love ain't got shit on this facet.   

     

    :D

    Yup, 20 years should do it. Even for the Aliens.

    After the aspiring Boddhisattva understood the joke of his own seriousness (and aspiring Boddhisattva-self-contradiction), he still continues his past habit, but in his core keeps a smile for the biggest joke ever played...

    Outside my window the beautiful clouds of a cold-front that has passed. On the screen the virtual representation of this lovely Spiritualoholics Anonymous chapter of ours.... What a magnificent show.

    Water by the River

    PS: Ahem, the move.... so:

    PS PS: Bazooka Jesus for president of this lovely chapter of the Spiritualoholics Anonymous here! Got my vote for sure ( :

     

  18. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    35 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

    Karma just means cause and effect, you've been told the "My Name is Earl" version. Karma means you light a candle, the candle burns down to a stump, rather than accruement of good or bad energies etc.

    Which aren't real, like how morality is relative to the beings in any case. What even is "good" or "bad"? On mushroom analogues your mind may not even know if what is happening is good or bad.

    Reality is Infinitely Intelligent. Just look at the manifested Universe.

    If one destroys or harms the life & development of others, or sets them in the wrong path, it will hurt ones soul. In the Bardo/Afterlife, these energies of the harm done will strike back and will demand further growth and development via suffering of the perpetrator. Normally it happens already in the current life. That is what Karma is.

    The Universe is not that dumb that Karma only means cause-effect on the physical level (light a candle, the candle burns down to a stump). There is a huge cycle of souls/perspectives/holons growing over long periods and many incarnations.

    Ever noticed that our fellow human companions range a broad span development-wise? The most important dimension of Karma on a soul level for example in Tibetan Buddhism are wisdom (basically intelligence, or being able to watch ones internal flow of thought instead of being identified with it, and cognitive intuition/capacity), AND compassion/love/boddhichitta (accepting and loving the manifested reality/visual field/"others").

    If you are so inclinced read some Out-of-Body-Explorer literature. There is more than enough of it.

    All of that is relative and imagined, but if somebody tells me I don't care, then: How well is the current imagined life-illusion handeld? All love and Sat-Chit-Ananda? If not so, how come?

    Those who ignore all of that will be given other masters.

    And that is why probably: Trainwreck ahead.

    Water by the River

  19. Posted

    30 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

    No no.  Ever seen the matrix where he wakes up and realizes what he thought was reality was merely a simulation?  Awakening is exactly like that, only it is the dream of an Infinite Mind - not a simulation in some computer somewhere in a physical reality :)

    So awakening is final. 

    Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet. 

    32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

    But then you can reach ever deeper levels of ecstasy by deepening your love for yourself through your understanding growing deeper - not through knowledge but through Love itself.... The Love is Infinite.  That is how understanding gets deeper,  Love IS understanding, and vice versa.  So you must bring those two together as one.

    And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being.

    And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion...

    Water by the River

  20. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    Oh, somebody with a working spiritual compass, and a heart to actually listen to it. Bon voyage and all the best!

    33 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

    Many people are going to go insane from this and he won't bat a single eye about it. He doesn't give a fuck, truly.

    That is now the most likely path.

    Writing about ones own (Alien) insanity, and rolling out the path to that to an audience dragged by google & Co. to this place (many with psychological problems), and having a paywall as entry criteria. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

    Each suicide will haunt him in the afterlife & next lifes when the emotional suffering & energies caused by it are no longer shielded from him, like in this earth realm. Infinite Intelligent Reality? Oh yes, perfectly sufficient intelligent enough to handle back that Karma & suffering caused, as learning experience for the soul. Didn't see these mechanism on his trips? Many many others have, in minute detail. Sure, all imagined. But that won't help then. Hell is also only just imagined, but appears very very real while having the resulting hellish bad-Karma nightmare-dream.

    You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

    Matthew 7:15-20

    So it seems that Spirit is not tired playing its game, and didn't choose this case here to be an example of "psychedelics-beneficically and wisely used in an integrated way", but instead a showcase-example of  "what can go wrong rolling out an extreme psychedelic protocoll to an unscreened, uncoached and unqualified audience".

    Water by the River

  22. Posted

    3 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

    Yeah thats the whole point of my post. Thats what I'm saying.

    Ok, got it.

    Somebody recently complained (in a quite, um, motivated way) about being gaslightened, or gaslit, or criticized, or whatever, about certain Awakenings. Which are/were supposedly Absolute Timeless Truths. Invincible Truths, so to say.

    That is why the words "gaslit/gaslightened on" and "Awakening" in close combination strikes yours truly as a rather unlucky combination.

    Water by the River

  23. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    27 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

    if it's not Absolute Truth.

    Yes. Absolute Truth is non-conceptual. Beyond any conceptual "Awakening".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajñā_(Hinduism)

    Not exactly a new idea. And for the Afficionados: Prajñā is not mainly Buddhist term. Not that some innocent religion gets shot this time. Please shoot this time: *** . Um, well, one can google it oneself if one is inclined for the shooting.

    And it is self-evident once realized. Always eternally here. Never having been anywhere else.

    If ones whole field of Awareness including the whole world shouts: Its wrong! That wouldn't change a thing. Because IT is self-evident. It is beyond any possible doubt. There is nothing further or higher. All of that would be relative appearance WITHIN Oneself, WITHIN Absolute Reality. IT IS. And IT IS You.

     

     

    Ralston: "some insight that'll come to me aha or some such it's not that. It is you so it can't come to you"

    I see this "putting the foot down" to not be gaslit since quite some time. It is a hilarious attempt of securing ones belief in certain "AWAKENINGS", not realizing the self-contradictory move of doing that. Absolute Truth can never be gaslit, and doesn't need to put the foot down. And it is not dreaming. The dreaming CAN appear WITHIN IT. And the waking up.

    Sorry, if one can be gaslit, and needs to protect ones "Awakenings" or whatever in an aggresive way... well, pretty self-explanatory.

    And mercy with the rodents please, they have a place in the Great Chain of Being

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being

    thank you

    Water by the River

     

    PS: By the way, yours truly doesn't consider himself as Nondualist or Buddhist or anything at all for that matter. On planet Gosuwabotl, planet 3 circling Sun Nr. 14124124234 in the galaxy Canis Major Dwarf, another spiritual system could be called Gosuwabotl *****-ISM. And if it would point to Absolute Truth, yours truly would be perfectly sympathetic to it, but also not identify with it. And I expect there are at least millions of alien civilizations in this Universe alone, with millions of different ***-ISMs leading to Absolute Truth. Not to talk about all other dimensions/Universes.

  24. Posted

    21 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

    And it’s precisely for this reason that you need inner authority, because if not, you will be gaslit.

    "You" can not be gaslit when having realizing Absolute Truth, or what You really are. 

    To even consider that one can be gaslit on Absolute Truth is a kind of joke. Gaslit by "whom"? Gaslit on "what"? And "who" can be gaslit?

    When you really get enlightened, and know who you are, you can't doubt that. Until then: Better keep doubting each and any arising in your mindstream, and burn it in the fire of your primordial Impersonal Awareness/Emptiness/Being...

    Realize what you really are, become Reality itself, and "you" will get the joke.

    And "you" don't need inner authority, you just need to realize what You are.

    And then one can be meek&compassionate&loving all day long, and not get gaslit in any way....

    Of course, if one still feels gaslit by "external" arisings (or "other" opinions arising in ones perspective) on ones "Awakenings",  one has to put ones foot down. Not that the Realization of timeless eternal Absolute Truth suddenly stops, or gets doubted by "others" or "oneself"...

    As long as there is a "you" that can be led astray.... well, gotta stop the gaslit! 

    Water by the River

     

    PS:

    35 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

    who else can decide for you that what you’ve Awoken to is real

    Real Awakening is not a decission. It is a realization beyond any possible doubt. Doubt arises in IT.

  25. Posted

    15 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

    Lol! The road to Hell is paved with good intentions! ?

    All evil is done from good intentions. You clearly haven’t watched Leo’s video on Everyone Acts From Good Intentions.

    You think I didn't know that, nor having seen that video?  ;) 

    Anyways, please a bit more 

     

    "So if you meet me
    Have some courtesy
    Have some sympathy, and some taste
    Use all your well-learned politnesse
    Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mm yeah

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, mm yeah
    But what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game..."

     

    And no devil, hm?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon#:~:text=A demon is a malevolent,%2C movies%2C and television series.

    Looks pretty cross-cultural and across all of history like the occurance of some less than benevolent forces in certain realms, hm? :/ For a good Lila, one also need the dark side of the force...

    Selling Water by the River