Water by the River
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Posts posted by Water by the River
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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:I am saying something deeper which you and all your Buddhists are missing. Because you're not seriously thinking.
hey, I wrote many times I don't consider myself "a" Buddhist.
Exactly because of the problems with the buddhISM you write about (and which are true for most other -ISMs also), and the rather not too many enlightened ones in the -ISM without the B. at the beginning.
Although I have some rather tender feelings for that show of mine (B.-ISM) happening in Big Me. Sorry. Stepped too much on the absolute side of the street.
Water by the River
5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:Because you're not seriously thinking.
True, I try to mostly practice not-so-serious-thinking nowadays.
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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:@Water by the River Those platitudes and cliches are not the same thing as seeing through Buddhism.
It depends on who says these platitudes. From a certain perspective, they are very true.
3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:See, you had to think just to generate those defenses. And it wasn't any kind of deep, serious thinking.
. Indeed, I didn't have to do deep and serious thinking to come up with these statements. Because for me, and within Buddhism also, it is very clear that at some point the whole(!) conceptual(!) structure of Buddhism must be cut off/transcended/negated also. But better not before that point. That would be the Tony-Parson exit of the road up the mountain.
Water by the River
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Uuum, lets assume Reality is infinite intelligent. Meaning Impersonal Infinite Consciousness manifests an Intelligence that holds Indras Net in itself, infinitely intelligent.
And lets assume that:
“Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.”
So Reality wants a certain mindstream/states(like boundless timeless infinite mere appearance infinite consciousness)/not-too-unloving-personality/maybe certain other stuff also... : The making oneself accident prone. And then the accident can happen. Its not for the separate-self to decide when precisely that happens.
Like I wrote before, there are self-guarding mechanisms of Reality. Reality apparently doesn't want too many enlightened uncompassionate egotists basking 24/7 in the bliss of their true nature.
And True Nature = bliss = shutting off the self-contraction in ones head, making the whole field groundless mere appearance floating in infinity, and infinite release a the snap of ones finger. That is just how it is, although many apparently don't like to hear it.
Water by the River
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57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:This is where I would suggest that you contemplate and think deeper. Buddhism is a sneaky and strong thought system, despite its pretenses to "no-mind" and so on.
The irony is that it takes a lot of thinking to convince yourself that Buddhism is the ultimate path to Truth. And if you didn't do that then you wouldn't be a Buddhist nor would you hold Buddhism in high regard. You have to think in order to admire Buddhism. And then when I come along and viciously attack your Buddhist ways, you gotta do a lot of thinking to defend yourself.
So this is very, very sneaky.
Short form quote above Buddhist-style: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
Short form quote above Advaita style: The spiritual search is like a stick that you use to move everything into the fire, and that it itself get's thrown in the fire at very the end.
Short form quote above Zen style: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!
Water by the River
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55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:It takes so much consciousness and independence-of-mind to see through Buddhism. Which is why I warn about it. I am vocal about it because no one else is and it's so easy to overlook.
Easy to overlook that 99,9%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened, and at least 99% of Buddhist teachers on the spiritual market place are not fully enlightened? Yes, the "success rate" of the Buddhist project is not good, not to say abysmal... But its a long journey over many (dream-)lifes, and the other spiritual systems/traditions are also not more successful.
And for the "masses", Buddhism teaches mainly compassion & love & integration into the world/society/other beings, or generally staying open and loving to all that appears in Ones True Being/Reality, which is the same as living a healthy life on the relative level. Dream? Yes, but a dream more on the happy side and not a nightmare-dream. Which is probably precisely what most souls need to learn in this round of the game. And which is necessary to stabilize Awakening. A big part of the Gateless Gate is made out of compassion. I myself was also like "hey, wake up, that is all relative-level-stuff, go directly to Awakening and so on, why so much about this Boddhichitta and compassion-teaching stuff and why not more emphasis on the real Awakening-teachings?", but over the years as I got older that changed a bit....
Ken Wilber once said in One Taste:
"First, although it is generally true that the East has produced a greater number of authentic realizers, nonetheless, the actual percentage of the Eastern population that is engaged in authentic transformative spirituality is, and always has been, pitifully small. I once asked Katagiri Roshi, with whom I had my first breakthrough (hopefully, not a breakdown), how many truly great Ch’an and Zen masters there have historically been. Without hesitating, he said, “Maybe one thousand altogether.” I asked another Zen master how many truly enlightened—deeply enlightened— Japanese Zen masters there were alive today, and he said, “Not more than a dozen.” (that statement from Katagiri was at least 30 years ago, probably rather 40. Nowadays its more for sure (and that quote should not cause any limiting belief), but still shows that one should not take the "Enlightenment" of the next Zen Teacher as the final thing. Chances are way higher that it isn't).
Most Enlightenments/Awakenings are not full/deep Enlightenment (in Zen called Great Enlightenment), where there is no more doubt about the nature of Reality, God, Ones True Self.
Water by the River
@Leo Gura PS: Deep respect from my side concerning your last blog-post. That takes a very high degree of Integrity, Self-Reflection, and above all staying open. Very(!) few people could do something like that. So really deep respect for that, and hopefully I am not coming across in any way condescending or jovial in any way, because that is not intended. Whatever caused your suffering, I wish you all the best and a swift end of suffering, and a fast return to the bliss & pioneering exploration of the higher realms/dimensions!
PSPS: Maybe you already know some of that material, but if not you will probably find these books quite interesting:
- Jaques Vallee, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers Paperback
- Graham Hancock, Supernatural
- Charles Upton, The Alien Disclosure Deception: The Metaphysics of Social Engineering. Although some of that stuff is in my opinion too deeply infused with Traditionalist School (perennialism) of Guénon, Coomaraswamy and Schuon, still a very interesting perspective.
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Jürgen Ziewe (Out of body explorer over 40 years, with valid Enlightenment-experience-descriptions)
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for example:
- http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Model_of_the_Multidimensional_Universe.html
- http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html
- http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Higher_Mental_Planes_or_Heaven_Worlds.html
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for example:
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4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:physical or psychological suffering are ultimately the same, they are a sensation destined to want to avoid a certain situation, or to pursue a certain situation. It is a biological survival mechanism. The fact of being a person who is living a dual experience means that you are functioning in a limited state of consciousness, and one of its limits is suffering. When we talk about awakening we talk about breaking those limits, and therefore breaking suffering, but it is only possible to do this in a punctual and temporary way since you are still a human living a dual experience. this implies suffering and wanting to escape from it is to deny your will to live this dual experience. Obviously, if you are open to your true nature, you will easily endure suffering, but it will continue to exist as long as you are alive. The thing about the monk who is burned alive does not mean enlightenment, it means detachment and renunciation. Watch the fight between Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe. do you think they are enlightened? I would say no, and they endure something seemingly impossible
I think we can agree on that I wish you (and everyone else) freedom from suffering, and the bliss of the True Nature each being has at its core.
And the fact that I do know that you underestimate your potential in being free from suffering and enjoying the bliss of what You really are is probably not one of the more challenging “lets agree to disagree”-topics.
In that sense: All the best and Bon Voyage!
Water by the River
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14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:Enlightenment can't come about as the result of a process. It is direct. There's nothing you can do that will bring it out, except becoming conscious now. You can focus on a question, aka contemplate. But this is meant to focus the mind, no method can possibly produce consciousness.
Yes.
Someone once said (don't know who):
“Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.”
That is for example the essence of going from One Taste Yoga of Mahamudra (making the mindstream confirm (or compatible) to the True State of things, like infinite, empty or non-personal, non-conceptual, nondual, boundless, timeless) to Yoga of Nonmeditation of Mahamudra (where one stops doing anything, since "anyone" doing something is an arising in the mindstream covering Impersonal Empty Infinite Consciousness. And the insight of what one really is, and what reality is, is Enlightenment. Can't be forced, happens by itself when the conditions are exactly right. Yes, its tricky. But has a structure to it.
But stopping doing anything BEFORE the mindstream conforms to a structure/state where Enlightenment can happen, one can do "nothing" for a long time and the accident/Enlighenment wont happen. Basically going fully Tony Parson.
Water by the River
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1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:Imagine that they lock you in a cell and tell you that in one week you will be subjected to the most horrible tortures for another whole week. Wouldn't there be psychological suffering? of course. any of those enlightened would suffer, and it is completely normal and legitimate. it is a natural process. You, as a human, have a self-protection device that impels you to escape from those situations. it does so through a sensation that we perceive as suffering. there is no problem with that, it is something natural.
If such a situation can't be avoided, one better is deeply rooted in ones nature.
That one here even shut down one of the most horrible physical pains possible. Burning alive, and didn't even flinch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức
Just a humble question: Why not keep that topic OPEN until you can say you are enlightened beyond any possible doubt? Just staying agnostic concerning that topic?
1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:And not all spiritual traditions preach the end of suffering, only one does: the Buddhist.
That is incorrect. All of them (the mystical traditions) teach some form of liberation and Enlightenment, or the end of psychological suffering.
For example:
Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha
1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:Buddhism is an anti-life religion. consider life as a curse from which we must escape, stop the wheel of reincarnations, and thus escape from what they fear so much: the suffering. it is a negative religion. focuses on nothingness, flees from everything.
That may be true for some very early form of Buddhism, but that is not where Mahayana and especially Tantric Buddhism ended. It is very much pro life, pro-manifestation and living life, and nondual:
https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/
1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:We could be deeply awake and suffer same time, accepting or suffering without problem.
Maybe we just have a different definition of terms. I agree with the statement above, as long as suffering is defined not psychological suffering/psychological resistance on top of the suffering that happens. Like for example feeling sad if something bad happens. But a open sadness with open heart, not a closed heart of the ego/self-contraction, or resistance to what is. Ken Wilber has a nice article on that in One Taste:
Water by the River
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8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:realizing infinity is only the beginning of understanding reality, not the end. there is no such thing as enlightenment or elimination of suffering. suffering is a mechanism of evolution of life. there will always be suffering as long as you are alive. there is no problem with suffering
If you want to believe that you cut yourself off from the possibility of the end of suffering. That the end of suffering is possible is the message from all Wisdom Traditions, at all times, from all cultures. A universal message that you are declaring non-existant.
Please excuse that I write that so directly.
Why do you not stay agnostic on that topic until you have the Enlightenment that all traditions at all times in all cultures point to? On what they point to is universal. Denying or doubting that possibility is denying the Ultimate Potential of the Human Spiritual Potential. It is nothing else than denying your True Nature, denying the path that leads to it, with all consequences that entails.
Water by the River
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"Enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true directly conscious of what's true like what you are or what existence is"
And that includes by definition the infinite potential for any possible form/appearance, arising in Absolute Reality.
So what is higher and better, or more valueable? What is worth of ones ultimate spiritual concern? Understanding ever more form/appearance (n+1 forever), or understanding once and for all the Absolute Nature of ones True Self and Reality itself? And stabilizing in that realization, that becomes always available once having realized it?
Not knowing ones True Nature is technically called Ignorance in many traditions, and leads to suffering. Waking up to ones True Nature ends the suffering.
Water by the River
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1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:Buddha said it. do you know what this is called? Pharisee
Are you interested in a "real" Pharisee story? Which I think is quite likely?
The historical Buddha probably never existed. Yes, right. His story (hagiography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagiography), is pretty much the same as the founder of Jainism. I think that this version is very likely.
Crowley, Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana
"It is customary to assume that the Buddha was a historical character (even iconoclasts like Trevor Ling do not question his historicity) but parallels with non-Buddhist systems raise a suspicion that this may not be so. It is no longer believed that there was an ancient Greek poet called Homer who composed the Iliad and Odyssey. These “Homeric” epics are now understood to be compiled and refined from the compositions of many individual storytellers. Might not the teachings of “the Buddha” be analogous? Could the teachings also have been an age-old body of wisdom, analogously compiled, refined and imputed to a single, fictitious author? These teachings would have been transmitted orally but eventually, when writing systems arrived, transcribed as suttas. The earliest Buddhist art does not depict the Buddha as a person, but merely in symbolic form. In these so-called “aniconic” images, he may be shown as a parasol, an empty throne, pillar of fire or a pair of footprints. Could this be an acknowledgment that “the Buddha” was not a person in the normal meaning of the word?
There is a strange feature of the Buddha’s biography which rarely receives comment and that is its similarity to the life of Vardhaman. Also known as Mahāvira (literally, “great man”), Vardhaman was son of a king, born with the 32 major and minor signs of his body. His father, the king, consulted wise men who foretold that he was destined to become a world-ruling emperor or a great spiritual leader. The wise men advise the king that to prevent him becoming a great sage, he must keep his son distracted with amusements. This the king does until, as an adult, Vardhaman escapes from the palace, meditates in the forest and achieves enlightenment. He teaches a non-Vedic path which, he says, is called Jainism. Anyone who knows the life of the Buddha will recognize all this as the same story. Even so, I have left out a lot of parallels such as identical personal names of characters in the biographies. Buddhism and Jainism also share many of the same symbols (e.g. a pair of footprints, the parasol, the cow hoofprint or nandi-pada, and the “śrivatsa” symbol). Curiously, many of these symbols are also found on Indus Valley seals."
Interesting conincidence, hm? Like Christianity and Mithraism (For that, see Brian Muraresku or Carl Ruck)...
And for the Buddhists: Anyway, lets get the copycats with the icepicks.... ( :
And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1... . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all.
Anyway, I am not going to convince anybody by logic. And until the suffering stops, one will keep walking ones path, by definition. So just continue practicing in whatever way one resonates with (5 MeO, meditation, whatever), and stay open... Bon voyage!
How one gets to Enlightenment: I am very open to all paths. But I have never seen one psychedelic-afficionado who did this without further practices. Could be that there are, but I am not aware of one. If anybody knows someone, let me know. On the other side, I know quite some who are enlightened (not the n+1, the real thing).
So lets just continue watching the show evolving here, and lets see if its happy ever after, or continued however one wants to call it.
Water by the River
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Just now, tuku747 said:In the Law of One, this is discussed as delicate balance between Love/Wisdom. In the end, it is realized that Love is Wisdom. So it is wise to ask oneself:
Yes. At the end of the day they are the same properties of ones True Core. Sat-Chit-Ananda. It is one and the same, and one can't be fully had without the other.
And for passing the Gateless Gate, and not the Awakening n+1: Reality tends to demands a huge amount of love/compassion also. Every spiritual tradition has practices for that at its core.
Water by the River
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8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:You are my hero man. Absolutely hilarious as always. Keep up the good work
Gonna pull a @Water by the River move here:
P.S. Clown Consciousness will be the final Realization. You will roll around the floor crying like a little girl. Don't take my word for it - do the work. If you turn clownness into a belief or a religion, you have missed the boat. Clown Consciousness is derived from deep within. Stare at your hand for at least two hours a day for the next twenty years and you might have a shot at Clown Consciousness. Love ain't got shit on this facet.
Yup, 20 years should do it. Even for the Aliens.
After the aspiring Boddhisattva understood the joke of his own seriousness (and aspiring Boddhisattva-self-contradiction), he still continues his past habit, but in his core keeps a smile for the biggest joke ever played...
Outside my window the beautiful clouds of a cold-front that has passed. On the screen the virtual representation of this lovely Spiritualoholics Anonymous chapter of ours.... What a magnificent show.
Water by the River
PS: Ahem, the move.... so:
PS PS: Bazooka Jesus for president of this lovely chapter of the Spiritualoholics Anonymous here! Got my vote for sure ( :
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35 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:Karma just means cause and effect, you've been told the "My Name is Earl" version. Karma means you light a candle, the candle burns down to a stump, rather than accruement of good or bad energies etc.
Which aren't real, like how morality is relative to the beings in any case. What even is "good" or "bad"? On mushroom analogues your mind may not even know if what is happening is good or bad.
Reality is Infinitely Intelligent. Just look at the manifested Universe.
If one destroys or harms the life & development of others, or sets them in the wrong path, it will hurt ones soul. In the Bardo/Afterlife, these energies of the harm done will strike back and will demand further growth and development via suffering of the perpetrator. Normally it happens already in the current life. That is what Karma is.
The Universe is not that dumb that Karma only means cause-effect on the physical level (light a candle, the candle burns down to a stump). There is a huge cycle of souls/perspectives/holons growing over long periods and many incarnations.
Ever noticed that our fellow human companions range a broad span development-wise? The most important dimension of Karma on a soul level for example in Tibetan Buddhism are wisdom (basically intelligence, or being able to watch ones internal flow of thought instead of being identified with it, and cognitive intuition/capacity), AND compassion/love/boddhichitta (accepting and loving the manifested reality/visual field/"others").
If you are so inclinced read some Out-of-Body-Explorer literature. There is more than enough of it.
All of that is relative and imagined, but if somebody tells me I don't care, then: How well is the current imagined life-illusion handeld? All love and Sat-Chit-Ananda? If not so, how come?
Those who ignore all of that will be given other masters.
And that is why probably: Trainwreck ahead.
Water by the River
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30 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:No no. Ever seen the matrix where he wakes up and realizes what he thought was reality was merely a simulation? Awakening is exactly like that, only it is the dream of an Infinite Mind - not a simulation in some computer somewhere in a physical reality
So awakening is final.
Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet.
32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:But then you can reach ever deeper levels of ecstasy by deepening your love for yourself through your understanding growing deeper - not through knowledge but through Love itself.... The Love is Infinite. That is how understanding gets deeper, Love IS understanding, and vice versa. So you must bring those two together as one.
And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being.
And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion...
Water by the River
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23 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:All you people crying about how there is no proof that you can become so conscious that psychedelics don't affect you anymore...well, here would have been your chance to collect some!?!
A self-proclaimed enlightened being with psychedelic immunity has offered himself up. Why wouldn't you want to investigate?
Simply to prove him wrong you should have taken him up on his offer.
But your unwillingness to engage and arrogant dismissal only appear as denial and egoic self-preservation to every independently thinking person on here.
Is Leo's goal with this forum to filter out anybody who doesn't blindly believe him and the be worshipped as the most conscious alien of the galaxy? Or does he actually want to help people? If it was the latter, he wouldn't run away from an opportunity like this for some truth to be revealed. (If the guy really is full of shit and Leo is so much more conscious, it would quickly become apparent if they had a conversation, it would maybe take up 30mins of Leo's time. Not a high price to pay)
Exactly.
Water by the River
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Oh, somebody with a working spiritual compass, and a heart to actually listen to it. Bon voyage and all the best!
33 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:Many people are going to go insane from this and he won't bat a single eye about it. He doesn't give a fuck, truly.
That is now the most likely path.
Writing about ones own (Alien) insanity, and rolling out the path to that to an audience dragged by google & Co. to this place (many with psychological problems), and having a paywall as entry criteria. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
Each suicide will haunt him in the afterlife & next lifes when the emotional suffering & energies caused by it are no longer shielded from him, like in this earth realm. Infinite Intelligent Reality? Oh yes, perfectly sufficient intelligent enough to handle back that Karma & suffering caused, as learning experience for the soul. Didn't see these mechanism on his trips? Many many others have, in minute detail. Sure, all imagined. But that won't help then. Hell is also only just imagined, but appears very very real while having the resulting hellish bad-Karma nightmare-dream.
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Matthew 7:15-20
So it seems that Spirit is not tired playing its game, and didn't choose this case here to be an example of "psychedelics-beneficically and wisely used in an integrated way", but instead a showcase-example of "what can go wrong rolling out an extreme psychedelic protocoll to an unscreened, uncoached and unqualified audience".
Water by the River
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3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:It depends on the personality of each one. and also depends on other factors. I suppose you remember when Leo was kind enough to tell you all that about the Buddhist rat, right? something that didn't make any sense imo. well, you make (completely legitimate) allusions about alien delusions, getting lost in fantasies, etc. Let's keep in mind that Leo occasionally (ahem) consumes ... substances. at a level that would cause more than one to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital, then, from time to time, he has that attack. but not so much
what is irritating is the difficulty he has in approving anything, although lately he has been seen approving (timidly) some comment. what is important here is his openness, his ability to open up and understand the infinite. he is our servant. He goes ahead, opening the way, and risking his life btw, we, me at least, go behind, looking to see if a mine explodes in his face. what doesn't explode? ok let's go ahead. Useful
If he could, he would be compassionate and loving. Obviously, he can't. So we get excuses and increasingly rationalizations.
Talk is cheap. At the end it all boils down to the conduct with which one lives ones life. Loving, open, gentle, wise, compassionate, blissful and at peace. Actualized. Or the opposite.
And what is the name for the phenomenon of the unloving, unkind and uncompassionate arisings in the mindstream which prevent love and compassion? What is the name for the self-contraction and resistance to what IS, to Reality as it manifest, to the Divine Reality happening right now right here in all of us?
Is it that complicated?
Water by the River
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6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:Well, The superiority complex is something very irritating, but imagine a situation where you see with absolute clarity and the others do not. They are swimming in the mud, going round and round, you see it, it's obvious. but also, they think that the one who is in the mud is you, and with great condescension they explain to you that you are a fool and a mad, that according to the sacred scriptures they, there, swimming in the mud, have reached the pinnacle, the end, the Walhalla. all while you see them swimming in the mud. Well, you might have a hysterical fit from time to time.
Exactly then one would communicate with compassion, and not with superiority.
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Moksha has clearly written his perspective. Interesting to see how that needs to be interpreted in order to stay congruent.
It is very possible that Reality is not intending to let this whole project here come to happy ending, and let it manifest as an example of what can go wrong.
We will see.
It seems like the heart and soul of each participant either feels the warning of ever deepening dissonance, or doesn't intuit the obvious and happily goes along.
A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. - Matthew 12:33
Water by the River -
2 hours ago, Moksha said:@Leo Gura Who is amusing itself and otherwise feeling depressed at the ignorance of so-called others? How could this possibly be anything other than hyperinflated ego? The more sincerely you see beyond the surface of people (including yourself), and directly love this essence, the more integrity there will be in your teachings.
Listen to the feedback you receive over and over again, including from people that believe your "AWAKENINGS". The absolute within instinctively senses its entrapment. Enlightenment is the process of dissolving everything you are not.
This has to to be said. If not for your sake, for the sake of people that believe what you teach. There are a lot of young and vulnerable people here, who are suffering and sincerely desire truth. Ultimately the end of suffering is the direct realization of truth.
You have the power to help or delude them. Clearly see before trying to help others see.
? to everyone, including @Leo Gura. Please be careful with what @Leo Gura is claiming, and don't buy into increasingly extravagant claims. I don't doubt his sincerity, but he is diving deeper into imagination, rather than truth. I don't mean this an an insult to him, and I truly wish each of you the best.
Trust and look deeply within yourself. You are the answer to the only question that matters.
I'll check in from time to time, but this is my last post. @Moksha out.
???
That is really very sad. Thank you very much for all your wise posts and the love you brought to the forum.
I would be very happy when you find the inspiration at some point in the future to join the exchange here again, although I can understand your decission.
All the best.
Water by the River
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9 hours ago, Girzo said:I have read this paper now, man is it boring
This is a part you quoted and not highlighted and this is exactly my argument. So they find osme DMT they can only hypothesize it can act in a way similar to exogenous DMT, because there's little concentrations of it and they hope that 0,5 mg DMT from the body can somehow act like 30 mg DMT from outside the body. But there's a shit-ton of other chemicals in the body that can cause and NDE potentially, so looking for a role of the DMT in the body is not a hill I would die on.
And if you have read the Jewish stories book, then you know Strassman finished it highlighting many differences between Jewish prophetic experiences and DMT experiences, so DMT doesn't explain it.
I would like to give you some sources why I am so sure that DMT in the body is not some endohauasca and is not activated by Him Hoff or any such stuff. But this not something I care much about so I haven't collected sources. I can only point you to Hamilton Morris' podcast, where he interview guest that I got this view from https://www.patreon.com/HamiltonMorris/posts
Thank you for the link. I will check it. If you find further stuff in that direction, i would be thankful if you post or PM me that.
I am well aware that this is only a working hypothesis.
"because there's little concentrations of it and they hope that 0,5 mg DMT from the body can somehow act like 30 mg DMT from outside the body".
I assume when DMT gets to the body externally, that it gets more or less evenly distributed in the body. Considering that the brain & brain strem is only a fraction of the body weight, and maybe only a fraction of the brain/brain strem gets affected (maybe by Cerebrospinal fluid), and the DMT is secreceted exactly where is has an effect, I could imagine the small volume having a similiar impact. If the area that is affected is much smaller, and the diffusion once secreted is slow, I could imagine that the impact via Cerebrospinal fluid is high, even though the secreted volume/mass is low. But I don't know, and probably nobody else has evidence for or against it. But I would be thankful on any further information in case somebody has more information or another perspective.
"Cerebrospinal fluid bathes the gland through the pineal recess", from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525955/
Lets see how the research will develop. I am well aware that correlation is not causation, but the effects of psychedelics and these mystical experiences have similarities.
Water by the River
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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:You certainly can be gaslit about it.
Someone will inevitably say something like, "Oh, that was just a state from psychedelics and those don't count, or it was all just a hallucination in your brain."
ok, in that context I agree. The state from psychedelics is as real as any other state.
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3 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:Yeah thats the whole point of my post. Thats what I'm saying.
Ok, got it.
Somebody recently complained (in a quite, um, motivated way) about being gaslightened, or gaslit, or criticized, or whatever, about certain Awakenings. Which are/were supposedly Absolute Timeless Truths. Invincible Truths, so to say.
That is why the words "gaslit/gaslightened on" and "Awakening" in close combination strikes yours truly as a rather unlucky combination.
Water by the River
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted · Edited by Water by the River
Yes. I learned here to my amazement that telling about the possiblity of
...that all of that is supposedly not possible. Although I have the verification of exactly that every day. And although thousands of people across all times, centuries and cultures, across all wisdom traditions, tell the same.
Honestly, what is left of small-me really rejoices in Big Me of the fact that "I" can verify that for myself without needing anything or anyone, or experiencing anything. Especially, i don't need any kind of -ISM anymore, which can only point the the moon, act as pointer.
IT, or the "moon", is always right here. Can not not be here. And will eternally be here. Never lost, never found, only overlooked and clouded with ignorance and some other funny arisings hiding the Truth.
Well, apparently every being is free to hug
the spokes of the wheel of Samsarathe egoic self-contraction, declare it God (and not contained within God), and affirm its inherent nature of suffering as the only spiritual goal possible, declaring that un-Truth as summum bonum. Well done, I know a gentlemen with style that would be proud of that....Well, God & Gods & Gentlement with style don't seem to get tired of playing that game anytime soon. Until then, lets enjoy the show...
And now, annoying Water-by-the-River, would you please s*** **?
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