Water by the River

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  1. Not for the illusionary self… because that would be its death.
  2. Ah, „that“ ocean. And who or what is „the“ ocean again? Who or what is perceiving all its endless islands again? „Who“ is the alien again?
  3. 29:46 Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization Summary effect after Self-Realization: Ahem. Um. Hmmmm. So... iconoclast (plural iconoclasts) (historical, Christianity) One who destroys religious images or icons, especially an opponent of the Orthodox Church in the 8th and 9th centuries, or a Puritan during the European Reformation. One who opposes orthodoxy and religion; one who adheres to the doctrine of iconoclasm. (by extension) One who attacks cherished beliefs; a maverick. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iconoclast And hey: The guy lives in SF, seems rather friendly and nice, and he offered for anybody who wants to see this to come & smoke the pipe of peace with ingridients of interest! So why not someone more or less local go there and proove the gig and/or fraud? Wouldn't that be interesting? Selling Bilderstürmer by the River And in case yours truly caused an increased blood-pressure with the link above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Joy "Joy, thou shining spark of God, Daughter of Elysium, With fiery rapture, goddess, We approach thy shrine! Your magic reunites those Whom stern custom has parted;* All men will become brothers* Under your protective wing. ... Be embraced, all ye millions! With a kiss for all the world! Brothers, beyond the stars Surely dwells a loving Father. Do you kneel before Him, oh millions? Do you feel the Creator's presence? Seek Him beyond the stars! He must dwell beyond the stars"
  4. Here we are in an area where Ludwig Wittgenstein & Nagarjuna have placed signs stating "Whereof one can not speak, thereof one must be silent". Therefor the Sales chap mumbling "What is THIS??" by the River recommends Bassui: "Who is hearing these words right now?"
  5. Very nice description. According to Ingram, Yang and Thisdell, enough of these will make the survival of any remaining separate-self-lenses quite challenging. That enormous "place" without time, space, anything at all, not even nothing, is always right here, right now. Eternally or timelessly so. It is not in time. Daniel Brown commented that Nagarjuna & company (the guys who sparked the Nondual Revolution in Buddhism, from early Buddhism and its cessation as summum bonum towards Mahayanas True Nonduality, or always right here Enlightenment/liberation, even when the visual field arises) said that the Dissolution/cessation experience presupposes time. Before cessation, after cessation. And time is a construct. That vastness/Infinite Reality/"place, non-place" is always right here. "Before" and "after" cessation arises "in" It.
  6. Great Video. Jhana 8 "beyond perception and non-perception" available when the visual field arises, around 13 minutes... "continuously able to see it", or better (if I may): Intuit & realize the Infinite (Absolute), where the mind can't go, while appearances arise... Definitely a new fusion-style-cuisine of the age old Jhana-lingo. Yummy. Buddha meets Nagarjuna once more. Nice. John Churchills "Planetary Dharma" in the making, with all contemporaries having the chance to watch its creation. What wonderous & magnificent times we live in. Now we just need to get Leo back from being a bit you-do-you-annoyed to being passionate again about singing the song of his heart about his courageous Alien-realms-journeys to places no human has gone before, in poetic descriptions (where dry logical words can't convey, the poet can use its art to cast the magic into songs that tell of magnificent Eternity & Infinity). And smile back at the crocodile (when the crocodile smiles at you, sometimes all one can do is smile back) https://www.actualized.org/insights/crocodile-love, and this lovely place gets know the Infinite and also Infinity of Infinities... Relaxing in the River, by the River, for the River
  7. These two disagree a bit: They dont know what appears on the other side of the world. But they know a thing or two about the structure of Reality. form does not differ from emptiness, emptiness does not differ from form. That which is form is emptiness, that which is emptiness form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness. Selling and the mind is no hindrance, without any hindrance no fears exist. By the River
  8. Nonduality is not Enlightenment. That comes way later (at least for most). „With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream.“ ““Your physical body, composed of the four basic elements, can’t hear or understand this preaching. The empty-space can’t understand this preaching. Then what is it that hears and understands?” Meditate fully and directly on these words. Take hold of this koan as though wielding the jewelsword of the Vajra king. Cut down whatever appears in the mind. When the thoughts of mundane matters arise, cut them off. When notions of Buddhism arise, likewise lop them off. In short, destroy all ideas, whether of realization, of Buddhas, or of devils, and all day long pursue the question “What is it that hears this preaching?” When you have eradicated every conception until only emptiness remains, and then cut through even the emptiness, your mind will burst open and that which hears will manifest itself. Persevere, persevere—never quit halfway—until you reach the point where you feel as though you have risen from the dead. Only then will you be able to wholly resolve the momentous question, “What is it that hears this preaching?” Bassui So what is it that believes that over here is anything not liberated
  9. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=leavitt&author=Water by the River
  10. Infinite Being IS the dream appearing "in" Infinite Vastness/Being, which has no outside. Appearance is the "light" of consciousness. Appearance is not substantial or material, just mere appearance (in Tibetan Buddhism then called Clear Light, which it actually is. Lucid and bright and no more solid and dense. That is the case when the illusion of dense/material/solid/dual/out-there-ness is lifted, because it can also appear in such ways). And not "out there", but nondual. There is neither subject nor object (these are illusion-arisings), but only Infinite Being. Hence nondual. Impersonal Nondual Infinite Being. There is no subject hallucinating anything. There is just Infinite Being. THIS. The illusion-arisings of the hallucinating subject (and its necessary illusion-counterpart, the "object") can drop away anytime, restoring the original state of impersonal nondual Infinite Being. The appearances of the "world", thoughts, feelings, the character, any understanding, any concept, states, Awakening, non-Awakening, dream, sleep, deep sleep, waking, any state and anything perceivable just floats/rolls through "this" Impersonal Reality which is always right here. And "this" impersonal Reality only perceives itself. And at some point, understands "itself" and realizes "its" (nondual) nature, and what it has always been. Yet, "it" only ever has been "itself". Who is reading this again? And then replace "it" with... Selling just IT Water by the River to itself
  11. No. When one knows that the nature of every single I-thought/I-feeling/"building-block" of the separate-self-illusion, they arise and evaporate in Infinite Being. Since they are an illusion. They arise, one looks into their nature (Suchness, mere appearance), and they stop/evaporate. That is the essence of Trekchö (Dzogchen). And with that comes the understanding that these arisings were illusions all along, appearing in Infinite Being. So these arisings of the separate-self evaporate (or "burn") in the nature of True Being (which is pure groundless infinite emptiness/vastness in which the world and the separate-self-illusions arise/appear), and are no longer bought into. Then, all of that is just cut off (if nothing needs to be done by the character), or one lets the character do its thing in clarity (technical Mahamudra-term) where the mindfulness (another technical Mahamudra-term) of the nature of the mindstream (thought and feeling-stream) as mere empty (mere appearing) arisings is not broken. In summary: The separate self is seen through because Awareness is strong enough (aka each and any separate-self building block/concept has been seen through) and fast enough (these arisings get very fast, 20+ arisings per seconds or something I would guess before the loop closes) to cut off the illusion in real-time. And then Infinite Being/Infinite Consciousness "can close the loop" and understand itself. And the "understander" of that is another separate-self-illusion, which gets cut off also (Cluster of sensations/thoughts claiming ownership of other clusters of sensations/thoughts/feelings). And then, the Infinite Totality can understand itself. Which is the death of the separate-self, because the illusion is just no longer believed. So Absolute Reality (totally empty nature) burns & kills the separate-self, quite literally. But since that was just an appearing illusion, nothing more than an illusion is lost. And all of that is not a funny idea, a nice story, fancy concepts. It is actually the death of what you thought you were. Sayonara separate-illusion-character, hello Infinite Being. Infinite Being, which was "there" all along, since there is nothing else, but cosplaying as a illusionary separate-something-arising appearing within itself and giving rise to buying-into-that-appearances, aka I-thoughts I-feelings). And one doesn't "overlook" that death of the illusion. And it comes with huge spacious vastness (infinite boundlessness) of Nonduality appearing in Infinite eternal Being/Infinite Consciousness. When each arising in the mindstream and each appearance of the visual field ("world") is seen as mere groundless appearance (empty, mere lucid appearing, not solid, not "out there") happening within ones True Infinite Being, and no stories/concepts are made out of that (since these are just more concept-arisings appearing "within" IT, made of IT/suchness). And on top as the icing on the cake comes huge waves of Sat-Chit-Ananda whenever Infinite Awake Nondual Being is not clouded by the separate-self-illusion-cloud and its contraction. And everything else is just varying degrees of cyclic misery/suffering/contraction/duality, going round in circles in its latest pet-project to release the contraction/suffering of that illusion. With best regards from the separate-self illusion. Bassui in Kapleau, 3 Pillars of Zen: Your Buddha-nature is like the jewel-sword of the Vajara king: whoever touches it is killed.Or is it like a massive, raging fire: everything within reach loses its life. Once you realize your True-nature, all evil bent of mind arising from karma extending over innumerable years past is instantly annihilated, like snow put into a roaring furnace. Letting it burn by the River
  12. Um. No. It burns the remnants of the illusionary separate-self away. Wonderful! And "It" and "the" actually is You. You don't burn You away, just the illusionary "small/separate you".
  13. Joy, bright spark of divinity, Daughter of Elysium, Fire-inspired we tread, Thy Heavenly, thy sanctuary. Thy magic power re-unites All that custom has divided, All men become brothers Under the sway of thy gentle wings Singing along with Friedrich Schiller by the River
  14. An interesting experience for sure, especially if it opened the interest for these topics. Classic Cessation from meditation needs a lot of training before (which has its own benefits, effects and consequences), and has a characteristic entry, exit and afterglow/effects. There are many ways to experience what Wilber calls subtle and causal states. Each with a certain surface structure, each with the potential to lead to certain similiar deep structure insights.
  15. Imprecise wording from my side. The potential for Awareness is there throughout. But if nothing appears there is no self-consciousness and no consciousness OF. Yet, Infinite Being can't "go" anywhere, and is always the case. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Water Pistol&author=Water by the River
  16. Just as a remark: Classic Cessation/Niroda is without any(!) awareness left. None at all. It is like a film where pictures of the movie are missing. Memory/Awareness comes back only later when booting up. Similiar to the blackout of deep sleep when there is no continuity of Awareness. The interesting/useful aspect of cessation for further transcendence/practice is that one watches how the visual field/separate-self "reboots". That is very similiar when going through these states in the sleep-cycle when some kind awareness kicks in fast or stays throughout these causal/dream states, and the appearance of the dream and/or waking state occurs coming out from such a causal state. Normally, the booting-up process when waking (or winding down when falling asleep) is so fast that no memory and/or awareness of that remains (or is being imagined : ). Because that would reveal drastically how the dream is constructed, how the world-illusion works, and what the Infinite Screen of it all truly is. And Spirit doesn't want the show to end (yet) But there are causal states with remaining awareness. The psychedelic state you describe, the Infinite Darkness suffused with light of the Neurologists NDE I mentioned, some states of when bringing Awareness into the sleep cycle (as described above). All quite useful for giving indiciations how it all really works... So the question is always: How useful are these causal states (of certain types) in bringing insight into what Reality/True Being is, and how the illusion/manifest world is being constructed/imagined/manifested "on the fly".
  17. Niroda-style cessations going blank from concentrative meditation in the waking state and then "rebooting": No. I didn't push the concentrative path/Jhanas path much, Mahamudra & Dzogchen -practice is different. On that path, these states don't need to happen, nor are they considered that important as in Theravada. I have experienced the causal states from the states & transitions during the sleep cycle. "Seeing" the rotation of waking/sleep/dream, the causal states that can show along that rotation, lucid dreams, and also the "Reality" of deep sleep. Which is exactly what is supposed to happen according to the tradition when Awareness has become strong/trained enough in the waking state that it continues in some forms into the sleep-phase, and stays during the state-changes in sleep/dream/waking which then "roll by" "before" ones True eternal unchanging Infinite Being. As a sidenote: In the Mahamudra-system there is the so called Nondissolution-Experience that opens up the boundless and eternal/timeless/always here/impersonal nature of Infinite Mind/Infinite Being and how everything emerges from "THAT", including all thought/feeling-arisings, which arise in an impersonal clockwork-like process ripening/arising from the groundless ground of Being, emerging fully formed and then being elaborated as a second step so slowly that one wonders at some point how that could have hypnotized earlier. And how time is constructed. Which I experienced as predicted in this system at the point where its supposed to happen. Which is a very valueable experience, since it shows how the separate-self, time, basically everything is constructed and emerging. Not only when "rebooting" from cessation, but in real/daily life. And that then gets stabilized with further practice. Brown, PotgW: "Though comparable in profundity to the Theravada dissolution experience, the Mahayana experience of nondissolution or unelaboration is very different, both experientially and philosophically, which is why the commentators are careful to refute the nihilistic dissolution position" "Once the practitioner gets some sense of emptiness (mere appearance,WbtR) pervading the interconnectedness of all times and realms, it becomes easier to persist with a continuous focus on emptiness when leaving the samadhi state and reentering ordinary daily experience.'" I assume that if I trained for some time in hardcore concentrative meditation that cessation-states become accessible in the waking state. I know the techniques that have to be practiced to achieve that. Yet, there seems to be a genetic/karmic/whatever factor if the long form of cessations is accessible (Niroda) or not. But I don't need these states since I have accessed the experiences/states and insights they give from other ways, as described above. And I don't need concentrative meditation to keep/access Infinite Nondual Being. Jhanas 1-7 are given anyways at that point, since its hard to "get" Infinite Space or Infinite Consciousness or Nothingness when that is already the case before any meditation during daily life. Jhana 8 (neither perception nor non-perception) / 9 (Cessation and/or Niroda) need "induction" via concentrative meditation.
  18. Here you can find my summary of Pointing out the Great Way/Mahamudra, based on how it developed for me, written in my own words based on my experiences/milestones: Which funnily developed pretty much like the book describes. So it was fascinating for me that the experiences developed very much in line how they were described for centuries in the Tibetan Mahamudra-tradition, delivered by a book of several hundred pages of descriptions. Talking about a sophisticated complex meditation system.... One of the main milestones, after which it continued developing, was the blue marked part below. That happened after around 10 years of meditation (which was not as efficient as possible (quite inefficient actually, that is why it took so long), since I didn't get a lot of stuff right straight away, and had no direct teacher). That milestone is where the awakened and nondual states starts to develop after some time. Afterwards I was hooked, and used all the other tools (like the always here timeless nature of the mind, its infinite and boundless and nondual nature, and finally its impersonal nature in stage 4) for developing Nonduality in Yoga of One Taste (stage 3 Mahamudra), and developing these nondual awakened states towards the pure impersonal and totally unseparated nature, conforming to the Reality of the enlightened Mindstream (stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation). Then Enlightenment can happen, but can't be forced. Enlightenment is an accident. Yoga of Nonmeditation makes very (!) accident-prone. On the path are I would say between 5-10 major cul-de-sacs or mistakes one can make, which can either be overcome with applying the right technique of Mahamudra/Dzogchen (or non-concentrative meditation), or with hardcore concentrative meditation (which works without all this sophisticated technique, but is as hard to pull off (discipline, hours on the pillow needed) as we probably all know. That is why we see more "Natural/ or enlightened-by-accident ones" and hardcore concentration meditation enlightened ones (Ingram, Yang, Burbea and the Theravada & Zen crew), but very few Mahamudra/Dzogchen enlightened ones, since that sophisticated system has not been planted fully in the West. I see its potential, and consider that (combined with psychedelics) as the future, since few people can actually pull of the natural style (by definition), or the hardcore concentrative meditation style. So lets see... And if that is not enough, here is some more of the Sales-by-the-River: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Pointing out the Great Way &author=Water by the River Bon Voyage, good luck, and if you have further questions let me know.
  19. Because the state of cessation (or the dissolution experience) tends to reduce grasping/attachment because it partly frees from the "grabbing/grasping" character of the egoic mindstream after having had that state/cessation for a number of times. In short, it makes life easier and suffering/grasping less. But it doesn't provide full liberation/the potential for Full Enlightenment. The ideal of early Buddhism was the escape to these states of cessation, the more permanent the better. Permanent Niroda = permanent dissolution = Nirvana = No more rebirth. With Mahayana, the Buddhist Traditions broke through to true Nondual Enlightenment. Leos God-Realization, see the God-Realized approved Supreme Source for example, link above. Sounds a bit different than cessation/dissolve/die and get off the wheel of Samsara/Niroda/bye bye forever? Oh yes... Why? Because Absolute Truth is always right here. Never can not be here. Why shut it all down when IT is always right here? When the suffering/grasping clouds of the separate-self/ego are structurally dissolved (Full Enlightenment), and not just temporarily switched off via cessation, Infinite Nondual Impersonal Being replaces the separation/grasping/suffering of the ego in daily life. And the Sat-Chit-Ananda aspect of it (Bliss/Love/Compassion/Nondual Awakened Awareness) is off the charts. Trust the Salesman by the River. Caveat Emptor is good, but sometimes there is enough good Karma to just buy the right "stuff". by the River So no need for dissolution afterwards... Mahayana philosophy is a totally "different beast" than early Buddhism/Hinayana. For example: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz#:~:text=Composed sometime around the third,cosmic vision of the universe. In Mahayana, Enlightenment is not the end/extinction/cessation/dissolution, but the beginning of the caterpillar having turned butterfly, expressing its enlightened intention not only in this life/bardo, but also in future ones. The whole Reality then goes like "Oh nice, one more for the team"... A whole chain of being of enlightened beings (human, alien, ET, Buddha-Field Creator/Sustainer/and so on) fits into the manifested Infinity of Infinities of Infinite Being. See the WbtR 2x2 matrix of enlightened & or merely awakened Aliens & Humans. Its a totally different and much more positive worldview than Early Buddhism, which was more like "die, cease and get off the wheel". Would be a lot of effort on creating humans via an evolution of billion of years and then getting rid of the gig asap., don't you think? Chris Bache in "LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven" called the visions he had been shown of the future evolution of humanity a growth towards what he called the Diamond Soul, a magnificent destiny for the species. And since even that isn't the end, its Infinity up the Chain of Being... well, mucho adventure ahead. So it seems that at some point, Leo gets to become his n+1 AWAKE Alien permanently. Hopefully, he doesn't take to many detours on the way there. Being reborn automatically as n+1 "Infinitely consciousness" awakened Alien is not guaranteed, but earned and developed towards. Soul, Karma and such. Not that the suicides influenced by certain inadvertantly & flippantly irresponsible teachings/statements say "hello" in a less than amused way after he has left his current bodily-vehicle. So in summary, early Buddhism doctrine just didn't reach Full Enlightenment. At least in its doctrine/philosophy. It reached causal states, but not truly impersonal nondual/fully enlightened ones. There have been Nondual Realizers for sure between "the Buddha" (aka time the doctrine was formed)" and the Nondual Breakthrough towards Infinite Reality/ Infinite Being that happened first with Nagarjuna and his Middle Way/Madhyamaka doctrine/philosophy, but the doctrinal break occured with Nagarjuna towards Middle Way, and later Yogachara/(Infinite) Consciousness only. Selling non-extinction of the River by the River for the River by The River
  20. Yes. The timeless eternal "background" (which actually is everpresent even when appearances arise) is the Dharmakaya/True Being. Sambhogakaya is something like ETs/Alien/God/Devas and what not and so on, Nirmanakaya the two-legged ape being when awake. Any any distribution along that spectrum has been used in Buddhism. And its all One (without a second) & nondual. And yet a spectrum appears. The Western version of it: The Great Chain of Being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#:~:text=The great chain of being is a hierarchical structure of,animals and plants to minerals. "The great chain of being (from Latin scala naturae 'ladder of being') is a concept derived from Plato, Aristotle (in his Historia Animalium), Plotinus and Proclus.[4] Further developed during the Middle Ages, it reached full expression in early modern Neoplatonism.[5][6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism Infinity upwards, Infinity downwards. Right. And even ETs find their places in it, since its, um, appearing Infinity of Infinities. Pretty high up the ladder, but not at its end... since.... its INFINITY Infinity. A version of that can be found in pretty much all mystical traditions. Finding alignments and resonance in many of the bubbles, eddies and vortexes appearing in the mighty infinite River, since it is always the same Infinite River, and that Infinite River flows in You
  21. Mostly. There are different versions of what Wilber calls Causal States. Cessation/Nirodha: Totally appearanceless "film-break" like cessation. Timeless/always here/Nothingness nature emphasized. Time needs appearance/objects/"movement"/change, no appearance/objects is timeless/always here. These states also clearly show that if nothing arises there is no self-consciousness. ( https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=pistol&author=Water by the River , thx Benthino for the water pistol). Pure Infinite Awareness/Being with the potential of sentience, but not self-consciousness. That comes later. Which is pretty much a shocker, since it shows that any form of self-consciousness ego/separate-self is a) arising/appearing b) temporary c) True YOU is always "there", existence itself. Even if nothing arises/appears. That empties out the remnants of the separate-self/ego as appearing/constructed and removes the remaining separate-self-identity pretty effectively when coming out of cessation. Nirodha is the big/longer brother of cessation. Causal states with awareness (Infinite (timeless) Darkness suffused with light): Then there are causal states that are infinite/timeless, but self-aware. For example what Tibetan called the Clear Light state (Tummo, Bardo, Near Death). For example something a Neurologist (who had an NDE) for example described as "Infinite Darkness suffused with light". These states can also be experienced passing from dreaming to causal states to dreaming to waking up. One can have these states also with psychedelics, see Chris Bache Diamonds from Heaven. Aware Deep Sleep: Then there is Deep Sleep as not loosing awareness (and hence timeless, no duration experienced) as described by Thisdell, above. Causal States eyes open. And then you have totally empty impersonal states with no separate self arising WHILE the visual field appears. These are also linked by some to Nirvikalpa since there is no separate-ego-anything left, its the totally impersonal Totality/Reality arising by Itself. That is why Ken Wilber called the total empty/flat-lining state (EEG) some kind of Nirvikalpa "eyes-open". These are the true nondual IMPERSONAL states of Enlightenment. Only when having passed these causal states is it truly nondual impersonal Enlightenment/Infinite Impersonal Being. Before that, it is a Unity with the Infinite Nondual Field, and the character/ego hijacking that experience and interpreting it. Very common with certain substances, and easily confused with the final outcome of the total transcendence of the ego/separate-self purified by the experience of these totally empty states (hey, "I" wasn't there, what am I really? For sure not that temporarily appearing character-gig, because that wasn't there. And what I really am has to be the case always, even if there is no self-consciousness or consciousness OF anything at all, aka cessation or deep unaware sleep. That paves the way to true impersonal Enlightenment, realizing ones identity truly is this Infinite Nothingness which can never be any arising/appearance at all. The Infinite Absolute Being/Reality beyond any expierence/arising, timeless and eternal). And the Awareness of that Infinite Reality/Being can also be kept alive if the character reappears, the EEG shows something again. But then, this character/personality has a similiar status as for example your car: It appears in your Infinite Being/visual field, you look "out from it" while driving, but most definitely you are not (only) your car, but the whole appearing show/Infinite Being/Infinite Existing, the screen and the appearing show. Wilber Nirvikalpa eyes open/eyes closed: But the term Nirvikalpa has been used for millenia, so you can for sure find cases where its used for cessation/Nirodha and eyes open causal impersonal states, deep sleep, and anything in between. What is more important is what these causal states really can do: Kill the ego/separate-self-arising-illusions for good, because they show that these are temporary arising illusion-clouds, nothing more. Not by having these a few times, aber after experiencing them often and coming out of them and seeing the ego reassemble itself in real-time often enough can even get the hardest ego-illusions to wonder about their "reality". See below. When training via concentration meditation, it is easier to reach Cessation than reaching True Nondual Enlightenment while the visual field still appears. Because the mechanism of the ego-cloud-separation-arisings is not yet fully transcended. The mere appearance character, the Infinite impersonal field, the eternal/timeless background-nature of True Being is not yet reached while the visual field is there/daily life. That comes later. Later developed forms of Buddhism (Zen, Mahayana, Tibetan Buddhism, aka Mahamudra/Dzogchen) directly aim for the Nondual Realization. They know cessation states and achieve them, but don't value these as ultimate goal. Which makes sense, because if one can enter Nirvana/Nirvikalpha on command, its nice then, and later on the still well and alive ego and its cycles of contraction/suffering kill all the oh so nice Nirvana again. But shutting the whole enchilada including the ego down in causal states is a very good tool. Not necessary, but very useful. These statements are in line with the statements and experiences of modern Theravada-teachers and realizers like Ingram, Yang, Burbea, Taft, Thisdell and so on. And that is why I prefer Mahamudra/Dzogchen (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). More on that below in the footnote 1. The relations of these states get clear once the timless Absolute Reality/Being is intuited as always here. Deep Sleep is so to say is always right here. Since what you really are is always right here, as it is in deep sleep. Infinite eternal Consciousness/Being which is totally empty and impersonal if no separate-self illusion arises. The tree watching itself, fully aware of its temporaray/passing/illusory nature. And that which is always the case, eternally so, True Being, fully understands itself then. Because there exists nothing else that could understand itself besides THIS of which nothing can be said, only pointed towards. So what is it that reads these words right here, right now? What is IT/You truly? Starting out to write a short answer answer, ending up with a Filibustero. Oh well, maybe its helpful for some. Selling Causal States as the final coup de grace for the separate self-character-gig/ego by The River Ok, it had to be coming: WtbtR now with footnotes. Guess not for the faint of hearted. Footnote 1: The original "Buddhas" Enlightenment-doctrine was Cessation/Causal-based, not Full Nondual (impersonal) Enlightenment in daily life. The original Buddhas Enlightenment was Cessation/Causal-based (Nirvana-based, "Nirvana separate from Samsara"). Which is still a conditioned state, bringing a lot of liberation from grasping, but not fully and in daily life. Separate-Self/Ego not fully transcended/dead in daily life. The breakthrough to True (impersonal) Nondual Realization in official doctrine came later with Nagarjuna and Madhymaka/Middle Path: True Nondual impersonal Enlightenment which could be sustained in daily life/with visual field. And while Madhyamaka tended to not say anything at all about the Absolute (neti neti, no concepts can be applied for the Absolute, which technically is correct), later forms of Buddhisms like Yogachara said that (in truly enlightened impersonal nondual states) Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Being IS an expression of the true state of things, and everything appearing is mere appearance (or "imagined"). See for example "Consciousness only school", for example Huang Po's Universal Mind, or the (very humble) Supreme Source "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe". God-Realization (TM) approved. Forms of Buddhism stemming from the original buddhist teachings (causal teachings, sometimes called Hinayana school, which doesn't exist anymore), like for example Theravada/Thai Buddhism Forest Tradition (and Ingram/Yang/Burbea/Taft) mainly trace themselves from these forms (although all are adding some form of Dzogchen and similiar stuff), don't stem from the the Mahayana Revolution of Middle Way/Madhyamaka/Nagarjuna), and YET end up at Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation. And for sure in the original Buddhism some realized Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation, but that didn't find its way into the official doctrine until much later. And that (besides that the original Buddha probably didn't exist because its the same story Jainism tells about its founder) makes me smile when there "Buddhism"-trashing. Its like trashing "religion". Which kind of religion? Polytheism? Ancestor-cult? Monotheism? Polytheism? Who cares, lets trash the rodents... So, now WbtR made it: Neither "Buddhist" like him anymore, nor the no-rodent crowd. Guess its "Viel Feind, viel Ehr!". Something we Germans are quite talented in. Oh well...
  22. https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/let-s-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/throwing-my-hat-in-the-jhana-ring and some more stuff from Roger Thisdell: https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/centrelessness-boundarylessness-phenomenology-and-freedom-from-the-cage-of-the-mind https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/maintaining-awareness-during-deep-sleep-how-to and: Cessation is a large focus of Theravada/Early Buddhism, helping on the path to Enligthenment. But it is not (yet) Full Enlightenment, see for example modern voices of Theravada like Ingram (Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha)/Frank Yang/Thisdell.They state the same. In Mahayana Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism/Vajrayana, this dissolution/cessation experience is considered valueable, but not more. Not the final goal. Experiencing Absolute Reality/Infinite Impersonal Being WHILE visual appearances and the mindstream arises as Infinite Impersonal Being/Reality is considered the Final Enlightenment. Because Ultimate Reality has to be constant, always right here. If its not accessible, clouds of separation are still arising which are not seen through. Cessation= Absolute Reality with no arising/appearance/anything at all, hence timeless, but also not self-consciousness (since that is an arising too). Helps seeing the illusion/separation-layers arising on the "reboot" while getting out of the cessation/Pure Nothingness, but does not necessarily destroy all the clouds causing duality. Normally it doesn't do that, that is why it takes lots of cessations on the Theravada path. No cessations are necessary for Enlightenment, it can also happen without them. In Mahamudra, instead of the Dissolution experience of cessation, the so-called "Non-dissolution" experience, or the insight the Infinite Mind/Being is timeless/eternal and boundless (but not yet fully impersonal) is considered of equal or even higher importance. Since that paves the way for the constant realization of Infinite Impersonal Being/Reality while the visual field arises, or Full Enlightenment. It is a difficult topic, needing a lot of reference meditation-experiences in order to start to intuit the differences. Maybe this is helpful for some.