Water by the River

Do you realize that you have not answered a single one of my questions, that I have asked very specifically (1-4)? Is it a challenge of reading comprehension, or ist it just easier to avoid my questions? Maybe try again? But hey, if you don't have the courtesy to carefully read what I asked, and specifically only answer what is asked in the questions and not something else, please feel free to continue serving as an example of trying to conceptually think ones way to Awakening/Enlightenment via "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" using (admittedly) one of the best conceptual descriptions of Awakening (not Full Enlightenment) done so far, those by Leo. trying to promote these concepts with evangelical passion towards the "others" to be saved and (now its a win-win ): continuing blaming "others" for being to ignorant/biased/not open/whatever/n+1 in an aggresive way, showing the degree of ego-transcendence and peace achieved, or at least toning down the aggresiveness and using nicer language (no more Liars, Raper, Fools, and the like), less [!!!] and less shouting via CAPITAL LETTERS). And while doing that, keeping ones aggression in check, because that will always find its way into the text written. and doing all of that, showing wether "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" really is a path up the mountain peak or into the valley below. A bit off-topic: An interesting research question would be: Is there some kind of threshold where "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" would get really dangerous? Dangerous like doing the promoting of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" at such a smart "intellectual flight level" where it gets really dangerous of seducing those that are themself smart&disciplined enough to reach the mountain summit with good teachings/practices? while at the same time not being at a smartness-flightlevel high enough to understand that "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" trying to think ones way to Enlightenment (instead of practicing/meditating) is exactly not the path to the mountain peak of empty/ impersonal/ nonceptual Awakening/Enlightenment, but down to the valley where Maya smilingly waits with Solipsism, Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity of saving "others"? Lets see if the upcoming preachers of that religion will help clarifying that research question. My personal guess is: No, it can't get dangerous, and the Eros/Growth towards complexity of the Kosmos is larger than the ignorance and illusion Maya generates. But I don't know. But what I am convinced of: On a relative level, the Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity (going up to God- and Messiah-complex like behaviour) can destroy the life of quite many preaching that religion. And that is why yours truly "fights" this "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching". Of course tongue in cheek, not taking the show as anything more than just one of the many spectacular displays of Maya. As always, Bon Voyage.... Yours Truly Selling Water by the River PS: And Razard, sorry, it is not personal. I agree with the last post of Breakingthewall, and really wish you a Bon Voyage and all the best. But the path of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" you promote (instead of for example promoting sitting down and meditating/practicing - which is, oh, actually serious work that takes discipline) falls into the delivery-portfolio of the guy with style & taste in the video below, metaphorically speaking.... The next shortcut up the mountain-peak, that ends quite somehwere else...

True. In the opinion of yours truly, that [bold markings in your post by yours truly] is especially the danger with psychedelic only/mainly paths. To say it in the words of Ken Wilber: To fully cross over to Final Enlightenment/fully waking up, ones Identity must by NOTHING/Nothingness. Fully empty. Fully Impersonal Consciousness. The "Abyss". Separate self fully seen in all subtle elements (I-feeling, I-thouhgts, and very subtle lenses of pereception)/transcended/cut off. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche And that can either be had with working with cessations (or the "more" concentrative path. "During" Cessations where the separate self is not existent, by definition), and seeing the separate self reassemble when getting out of that state, and the then resulting ripening and transcending of the remaining separate self. Or by doing something like the dissolving/transcending of the separate self directly with for example Mahamudra/Dzogchen, which knows cessations, but doesn't give them Ultimate meaning or even preference compared to staying in the Nondual (Simultaneous Mind) States/Awakenings (during daily life when the world appears in the visual field), letting the separate self slowly dissolve, until the Big Bang of Crossing Over or Waking Up: Resulting in the Final Nondual Enlightenment as described by Kalu above, or by Daniel Brown Pointing out the Great Way, Basis Enlightenment: The paths up the mountain are a bit different, and the interpretation of coming down the mountain also has different "coulorings". But the deep structure of the path, and the outcome, is of the same essence. Interesting thing is: Daniel Ingram, Frank Yang and Ken Wilber changed all in the later stages of their practice either to or to include elements of Mahamudra/Dzogchen into their previous practice (Theravada for the first two gentlemen, Zen for Wilber. Both are mainly concentrative meditation heavy paths). Which in the opinion of yours truly is a very interesting fact. Selling Water by the River PS: When having read the letter, throw it in the fire (Bassui)

Holykael, yours truly just loved your answer. Please keep going on with the good stuff. That post was so funny on so many levels. Bon Voyage Selling Water by the River

@Razard86: Four humble questions: (1) And as soon as one has understood this (what you write), and is deeply convinced that all of that is the case and true, is one then enlightened or awakened or realized? (2) If not (according to question 1), what would an aficionado of Absolute Solipsism have to do (or believe, or whatever) to get sanctioned by you to have awoken? (3) In which case would he have not have awoken, if he agrees these tenets/points you describe? (4) What would the Realizer/"Awakended one of Absolute Solipsism" have to do if he still suffers to get rid of that suffering, to ease his suffering? And please #1. some very specific answers, directly answering & hitting the meaning of the questions, to the best of your abilities #2. no talking about the bush, and #3. please the answer for each question separate. Lets see if there is enough reading comprehension and courtesy/compassion to consider Points #1,#2,#3 And let's see if yours truly has already made it to the list of lost souls forever burning in the hell of the heretics that are not worthy replying to them because even replying can cause their evil spirits and ideas to flare to possibly seduce and spoil the souls of innocents ones that still can be saved to Absolute Solipsism is deserving of the simple courtesy of not being ignored & answered to. Thanks! Yours truly Selling Water by the River PS: And sorry for the stuff crossed

On a relative level, that concept is wrong, and harmful. I can here that song playing.... Because: If you would have the opposite concept/believe, you would practice. And if done long enough, wake up. If you would be at that level permanently, fully established on the Absolute side of the street, where saying that "you" have no choice (Impersonal Infinite Reality doing its thing, no "you" anywhere to be found), one can let concepts arise along the lines "no free will". Which then wouldn't matter, since "you" are alredy "there". Before, there is still a "you" appearing in your mindstream on the relative side of the street, thinking how to decide and so on.... A very vivid illusion, very well alive and captivating... And thinking that there is no free normally ends up with.... doing what one wants, which is normally not a practice that requires certain effort. Essence of that link: " Practically speaking: Investing time in this question while not knowing what one really is is pointless. It is absolutely pointless. It is a question based on a wrong assumption: That the separate self exists as more than just an illusion. The rope mistaken for a snake. Better investing time in finding out what one really is." That means practice. So, maybe that is helpful... Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River

Yes, fully agree. And the Nothingness is always there (gold), even when the necklage (form) shows up. Made out of it. i just wanted to say that the perspective that the causal can also be considered a state when one wants to describe the temporaray experience of it is also valid. On the concentrative paths, one normally experiences the Nothingness normally first as state, before one can "hold" the awareness of the Nothingness as the essence also of form/visual field in daily life (Nondual Realization). That is why early Buddhism put Nirvana on a pedestal. One can get "hung upon" Emptiness/Nothingness as state. Awareness "OF" Emptiness. Then one has to empty out emptiness. Realizing broadly as movement (Buddhism) fully that Samsara is Nirvana, and emphasizing the Nondual nature of both, and formulating all of that into doctrine (Nagarjuna, Madyamaka) came later. Having Nirodha as state is easier (and can comes before) fully holding the Nondual Realization that essence of the necklace(form) is gold in daily life. But also that happens (realization with Nondual without Cessations before). Mahamudra and Dzogchen for example quite efficiently directly train the Nondual Awakening, and not giving Nirvana/Causal/Cessation states the importance it had in early Buddhism (and partially still has in Theravada). But if having the choice only between either/or (and not integrating both staetments into proper context to make the partial truths of each more encompassing) 1. calling Niroda/Nothingness/Cessation just an temporary imagined state or 2. calling Nothingness/Niroda the Absolute, "the" Infinite Always Already Here Reality, ones True Fully Empty (Nothingness) Impersonal Being of Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind, yours truly also would always chose the 2. perspective. Because its fully empty&impersonal Infinite Consciousness/ Suchness/ Nothingness. And that is what helps making it stable in daily life. Calling it just 1. (and downplaying 2.) can cause a lot of trouble. But if one goes down the Absolute Solipsism and "its all imagined" path probably tends to or even has to that move. But both perspectives contain (partial) truths. As is to be expected, because "at" the Absolute/Infinite level all dualities/language/descriptions/system just collapse. One throws them over board at the right time, not before. Until then, they are very useful. Selling Water by the River

Go to your local (and hopefully enlightened) Zen Master or any being one considers fully woken up/enlightened (because it takes one to know one), present him with your awakened state and/or Enlightenment & if you are so inclinded delivering also corresponding relative concepts (risking a smack), and you already get that today. Or 500 years ago. The apparent problem is of course: If one is the only awake.... like in only one ever can be awake. But I guess these aficionados wouldn't go to a potentially smacking Zen Master. Anticipating probably the outcome or so. So that kind of problem is solved anyway. Selling Water by the River

Sorry Vibes that my reply "hits/picks" you , but what remains of the shadow of an "yours truly" roaming around in Yours Truly [capital letters] has to write the following... You know, Karma and happy dreaming and the like.... The "love" of the new religion keeps on growing ("full of shit", "You are too arrogant", "Your are too blind to see your judgement"), with its new Evangelium of conceptual "Absolute Solipsism" apparently keeping on spreading under its new or not so new acolytes. Sadly, these don't see its obvious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-contradiction "You're too arrogant, you're too blind to see your judgment, you are too closed-minded." + "you are so full of shit that you can't even admit it". Did I overlook any rational reasoning/argumentation in your post? Any compassionate trying of convincing & saving the poor souls being led astray on their path to non-"Absolute Solipsism"-Hell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning Or was it intended to be more a compliment like: "Hey, you are the first one to be incorrect all the time, there is ZERO truth in your statement, not even a single partial truth. Congratulations!"? Anyways, choosing ones path to the mountain is quite important. Because Maya stands at many road-crossing, and sells the path down the valley as the instant and effort-optimized turbo-trip up to the peak. But hey, ladies and gentlemen, Maya is so marvelous that she even delivered a wonderful song on the topic/game. And if the seduction would be really done with STYLE& TASTE (as the song claims happens from time to time by the Master himself), who wouldn't mind the show. Probably only those being led into the valley, and only at the end of that road.... And some bystanders, that hopefully try to do their best on a relative level, pointing to the path down the valley and are asking "road to mountain-peak? sure?", while mainting one (or better two) of their feet on their absolute-side-of-the-street property.... Luckily, burning heretics alive at the stake for failures in the strength of their believe in the new gospel of conceptual "Absolute Solipsism", committing the heineous sin of heresy, got a bit out of fashion.... Humanity clearly develops.... Anyway, no harm intended, lots of love as always, and on an Absolute Level ItSAULGOODMAN always already, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: And again sorry Vibes hat I picked you out your post for my reply. Could have been any one of the other aficionados also.

Ah, yes, hm. True! You know, here in Germany in school if one misses the topic in an essay, its automatically "Thema verfehlt", missed the point, Grad 5 out of 6, 6 being the worst. F in the US. Basiscally "So by that logic calling nirodha samapatti a dream doesn't quite follow" I wanted to comment why some call contioned states like Nirodha Samapatti a dream (=state), a temporary, passing and empty state And some call it the Absolute. There is truth in both. Similiar in order to get the Absolute (Infinite free of any and all concepts), even Emptiness has to be emptied out. The "Awarer" of Emptiness/Infinity/anything has to be seen and transcended/cut off also to get to real Nonduality/Infinite. Awareness of Being/Awareness of Emptiness/ Awareness (Understanding) OF the Absolute is also just an arising IN the Infinite. See also one my previous posts on the Portals to the Absolute, Wolinsky. That dual meaning of the Causal state as both state AND Absolute at leased confused Yours Truly for a looong time. But as you maybe have already noticed, I enjoy writing about these things here. So apparently yours truly tends to hijack some posts, and goes of wandering to wherever he wants.... Gotta watch that tendency a bit, or at least clarify the intention for where and why wanndering off Selling Water by the River

Yes to all of it . And as you write, the Zen Master will slap one anyway. Only exceptions: He apprehends the same enlightened impersonal(!) mindstream of empty impersonal Infinite Consciousness that he knows "himself" to be in his interior/perspective. And apprehend/see that he can in Real Life perfectly fine... Takes one to know one. Then, one could say something completely incorrect on the relative level: The Absolute is Raspberry (Ralston once did). And one would still pass... But if in doubt, the smack & go and meditate/transcend/integrate/grow-up more is probably always helpful, even when already having a nice piece of real-estate on the Absolute Side of the Street.... Zen doesn't like basking in relative concepts. Probably the Zen Master would leave yours truly barely alive.... But hey, words and relative concepts are all we got here in the forum, and the voice of the "fully Absolute Side of the Street" is already doing very fine... Yours truly also dreams about fully retiring over there, and just sprouting out Koans like "frog pond plop" all day long and smile.... , but will stay & do the conceptual thing on the relative side of the street until time being. Selling Water by the River

Well, ......... yes! When resting IN that Nothingness/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Infinite Reality, the bliss/love starts to flow. So that bliss/love lives in the house of ones True Being. It is the fragrence of love/bliss that one searches in all(!) experiences, after the separate self contraction/ego has strangled this flow of love/bliss. It is the bliss/love of a home that one never really forgot, and actually never really left. Only apparently... Technically, the bliss/love belongs to the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness, the necklace side of the gold. But since it flows as soon as the gold begins to reveal itself, it is just divine in its force (see one of my last post for Awe). It kills "separate you" softly or not so softly... And when the Nondual Realization opens up..... the Divine opens its flood-gates and delivers any love/bliss one ever sought and had, and infinitely more... It is like finding a million dollar in your pocket, and keep pulling out the money in disbelief, always thinking that has to be fake as everything that came before. I think that metaphor is from Adyashanti. Afterwards, one never mourns the loss of the separate self-illusion. One has lost nothing more than an Illusion, and gained the whole Kosmos. Infinite Freedom, since which/what could constrain ones freedom? Infinite Love, since one knows its source, and there is no other, never could be. One without a second. And if it is in ones nature, go fishing, grow beautiful flowers in your garden, raise a family, celebrate life.... And if one is inclined to do so, go develop new technologies, explore new fields, leave your mark, go chasing an Alien or two - if one is true Pioneer, discover Alien Dimensions and the wonderfully beautiful creation and mainting mechanism of this Universe/Dimension/Buddhafield and others... But this time from the fullness of ones True Being, with overflowing bliss and love, and not for getting the love/bliss from the gig/experience, but for expressing the love/bliss that already always lives in ones True Home, right here and right now... And maybe don't value the n+1 Alien anything higher than the bliss/love of ones essence... You know, "others" might get inspired to go chasing their own tail too.... Selling Water by the River

Nirodha Samapatti/Cessation/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep - Causal States: Absolute Reality or passing states. Both! Please allow me some musings on that topic... The Nothingness/Infinite Reality in which the show happens right here right now is the same Nothingness that is also the Reality of Nirodha Samapatti. And all other (causal) states, like cessation and so on. Same goes for example of Infinity-"Whiteouts" of 5-MeO experiences and the like. IT/Nothingness is right here, Infinite Reality itself, It can never not be there. The essence of any manifestation. It is timeless, always here. Eternal. Immortal. Or better: Timeless, like in "can't go anywhere else, has to be right here always". Even in causal Nothingness-states, like Cessation/Nirodha Samapatti/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep. Ones True Eternal Impersonal(!) Being, Infinite Consciousness, the Universal Mind itself. Nirodha Samapatti is a special configuration/modulation IT(Infinite Consciousness/Reality) can have, although that modulation of it REVEALS much of its True Essence, Nothingness. IT has also the Infinite Potential to appear as the whole show, the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. And that manifested side is truly nondual with the unmanifested side of Infinite consciousness, One without a second. By logic, "what something is, its essence" has theoretically to be always the same (Which is why everything perceivable doesn't really exist, because it is temporary, changing. Using verbs instead of nouns would be much more approriate). That is why Nothingness (pointing to the "always there" Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness) is for example a much better pointer than for example anything pointing towards the "Manifested Side" of Infinite Consciousness, like the eternal flow of shapes, or even Gods/Buddhfields. As long as anything with form, anything specific (and that means also ANYTHING changing, which is also only temporary) is identified with the Absolute: Good luck getting rid of that... There is only one Thing/Non-Thing that is eternal/timeless, Reality itself. Anything else is changing.... The flow of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Of course the changing flow of the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness is in a nondual way the same as the Unmanifested Nothingness Side. But the ESSENCE of the manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness is Nothingness, not the other way round. The Manifested Side is NOT the essence of the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness. Because the manifested side can go (Nirodha Samapatti), so it is not the essence (not what something is, see above). The necklace and gold. Gold would be the unmanifested stay, it stays. The necklace disappeares in the furnace, leaving only god. One is the essence of the other, not the other way round. Nirodha Samapatti is the gold as molten in the furnace, without shape/properties. The necklace, or any jewellery, is the show/manifested side of Infinite Consciousness/gold. A very nice book on the Awakenings/Enlightenments into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness vs. the Unmanifested Side (and impersonal/causal/Nothingness) of Infinite Consciousness: Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me, Michaël Szyper being able to differentiate between Awakenings/Enlightenments into the Manifested or Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness would also put the whole Awakening n+1 show in a better perspective. A perspective that would actually bring real peace.... But of course would take a lot of juice out of the show, so lets see if Maya prefers the juicy show for yet a bit longer... If in doubt, always bet on Maya! You never get disappointed... Either she looses (which is nice), or the bet is won. A win-win situation uhhhh, sorry. And as always, Bon Voyage! Summarizing all of that: Nirodha Samapatti is a state, and is Nothingness, but is still a conditioned state. Temporary. But very useful and making the Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness quite clear... But since it is an expression of the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness, it is closer and a better pointer, a state making Absolute Reality/Nothingness clearer than for example saying the Infinite Flow of Infinite Reality (or anything with form, anything that can be described, God (not the Godhead), Buddhafield, whatever), which is a pointer to the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness. That framework explains why concerning Causal Nothingness-states, like Cessation/Nirodha Samapatti/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep. (1) some say it IS the Absolute (2) and some say it is only a state, passing, temporary. As most of the time, nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time, or even completely wrong with a statement (although some go looong ways to performe quite good in both categories, but that is another topic). Same here: Both statements (1) and (2) are true, but partial, and need to be put into context. Then it can be integrated. That is why I am such a fan of Integral Thinking/Integral Cognition. It solves contradictions.... And if one has partial truths and contradictions in ones Mental Operating System, one is a walking contradiction on two legs, the prime victim of Maya and suffering of the self-contraction (also a contradiction walking on two feet). Although some seem to enjoy it quite a bit, at least for a time... Maybe that is a bit helpful... Selling Water by the River

I guess the smack from the Zen Master for that answer would be a bit softer than the smack for "there are no others" Probably, the feedback for the latter answer would be delivered with mucho-extra-grande-compassionate-punch. Selling Water by the River

Yes. If you work carefully with Solipsism, and what I have read from you so far sounds very responsible. Danger is: When there is no other, there can still be you. Only you. One. Not One without a second. One, but not fully nondual/impersonal. Breakingthewall, from what I read you understand this very well, the danger and potential of that concept. Please allow me some general musings on the topic, not specifically adressed to you. The idea that the ego/separate self is God is the worst idea one can have. We agree on that. Blows up that which one has to kill/transcend. The opposite of Neti Neti. Shooting oneself in the knee and then starting the Marathon, and saying: I have done a good preparation for the run. At least in my perspective, there is zero problem for integrating the different views concerning Solipsism, and its partial truths: Solipsism on the level of the separate self: Wrong. The separate self IS NOT GOD or Reality. Ones True Being (Nothingness) is Infinite Reality, not the separate-self-cloud covering exactly that deep impersonal immortal always here True Identity. Solipsism on the level of the Absolute/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind: right. But totally useless once one is there, because it is just another fake concept floating in ones most obvious True Being. One snips it off like a fly. And before being there, it harms one also, because in any way it blows up ones ego, even if very subtle. And even if its just one more concept floating in oneself. I never had the need to think in Solipsistic terms while letting Nonduality ripen. Never. It would have only hurt me on the path, probably big time. How to get rid of "other", the loving style: And if one starts really feeling and intuiting that ones own being and consciousness is looking out from the eyes from another human (or any being): You would never ever start with ideas of Solipsism. Never. Instead, that beginning recognition is the highest level of empathy and love. But at that moment, there is no "you". Just impersonal Consciousness, in you, and the "other". It doesn't even make sense to say there is no other, because that implies that you are there (as concept and subtle separate self identity, not as Reality), because there really is no other. But also no you. Not one, but One without a second. Nondual, and not just Union of one with the Totality. So one can't say there is only me. There is only THAT. And nothing more can be said about that. And it is not one! It is not two! It is the one without a second. Nondual. Not one. And THAT is love, THAT is impersonal being, THAT is the essence of all of Reality. And THAT is also Nothingness. But anyway: If one thinks about it while on the way of getting to the Absolute, the concept of Solipsism is not useful. And when "one" is there, it is another crappy and redundant concept floating through oneself that also doesn't make sense. Which means nothing else then: The concept is not useful at any point in time on the path. It is a half-true half-false concept, making it completely false. Like every half-truth. If one wants to get home fast, better forget about it! Or use it with extreme care. I personally would rather recommend dissolving each and every concept, let real nonduality (an awakened state) ripen in an nonceonceptual empty mindstream, than playing Russian Roulette with such a concept. Ones separate self is not even dead when the shot goes off, but even more alive and bigger than ever.... Selling Water by the River

Bodhi originally has no tree. The mirror has no stand. The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure. Where is there room for dust? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng updated "Actualized" version: Bodhi originally has no tree. The mirror has no stand. The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure. Where is there room for dust? How can one not kill the "Other" of the Solipsist when meeting him on the Road? Koan for Actualized: Does the "Other" of a solipsist have Buddha Nature? I think when I retire I will move to the Absolute Side of the Street. I already know who will be my neighbour. Selling Water by the River Basho: “frog pond plop”

Since the Austrian guy quite some time ago did a lot of talking & writing much about Weltanschauung (and didn't only talk & write about it), that word is, uuuuh, a bit out of fashion in my native german language. SInce then, at least certain Weltanschauungen are well ... very out of fashion. Selling Water by the River

Then who is the little guy with the trident on the other shoulder? Selling Water by the River

hey, if we really go fully from the Relative side of the street on the Absolute side of the street, lets do it with style, and leave the little bubble at home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng Poem contest[edit] Eight months later, the Fifth Patriarch summoned all his followers and proposed a poem contest for his followers to demonstrate the stage of their understanding of the essence of mind. He decided to pass down his robe and teachings to the winner of the contest, who would become the Sixth Patriarch.[11] Shenxiu, the leading disciple of the Fifth Patriarch, composed a stanza, but did not have the courage to present it to the master. Instead, he wrote his stanza on the south corridor wall to remain anonymous one day at midnight. The other monks saw the stanza and commended it. Shenxiu's stanza is as follows:[13] The body is the bodhi tree. The mind is like a bright mirror's stand. At all times we must strive to polish it and must not let dust collect.[note 1] The Patriarch was not satisfied with Shenxiu's stanza, and pointed out that the poem did not show understanding of "[his] own fundamental nature and essence of mind."[11] He gave Shenxiu a chance to submit another poem to demonstrate that he had entered the "gate of enlightenment," so that he could transmit his robe and the Dharma to Shenxiu, but the student's mind was agitated and could not write one more stanza.[11] Two days later, the illiterate Huineng heard Shenxiu's stanza being chanted by a young attendant at the monastery and inquired about the context of the poem. The attendant explained to him the poem contest and the transmission of the robe and Dharma.[11] Huineng asked to be led to the corridor, where he could also pay homage to the stanza. He asked a low-ranking official named Zhang Riyong from Jiangzhou to read the verse to him, and then immediately asked him to write down a stanza that he composed.[14] According to McRae, "the earliest version of the Platform Sutra contains two versions of Huineng's verse. Later version contain one version of Huineng's stanza, somewhat different from the two older ones:[15] Bodhi originally has no tree. The mirror has no stand. The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure. Where is there room for dust? The followers who were present were astonished by the work of a southern barbarian. Being cautious of Huineng's status, the Patriarch wiped away the stanza and claimed that the author of the stanza had not reached enlightenment.[ Succession of Hongren[edit] However, on the next day, the Patriarch secretly went to Huineng's room and asked, "Should not a seeker after the Dharma risk his life this way?" Then he asked, "is the rice ready?" Huineng responded that the rice was ready and only waiting to be sieved.[11] The Patriarch secretly explained the Diamond Sutra to Huineng, and when Huineng heard the phrase "one should activate one’s mind so it has no attachment," he was "suddenly and completely enlightened, and understood that all things exist in self-nature."[11] The Dharma was passed to Huineng at night, when the Patriarch transmitted "the doctrine of sudden enlightenment" as well as his robe and bowl to Huineng. He told Huineng, “You are now the Sixth Patriarch. Take care of yourself, save as many sentient beings as you can, and spread the teachings so they will not be lost in the future. Selling Water by the River

But since according to Absolute Solipsism there are no others, there is no other/nobody to say different. Absolute Solipsism proven, Quod erat demonstrandum Did I make a mistake in my logic? Somebody please help me? Or do I get my PhD in Circular reasoning right here & now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning#:~:text=Circular reasoning (Latin%3A circulus in,are trying to end with. Selling Water by the River

Really can't get better than this... Selling Water by the River

Today: Absolute Solipsism having "Finally a worthy opponent lol." . Like in "there are no others", but somehow Absolute Solipsism found a worthy opponent. Can somebody please explain this oxymoron to me? Or do I have to stick to my old musings below? Razard, with Moksha you have on the relative level a really worthy opponent and sparringspartner. Funny thing is: Moksha is not what you think Moskha is. There is just Infinite Reality doing its thing. Like in "you", minus the illusion.... And one of the reasons for the manifestation of this show/Lila is: The biggest joke ever. Selling Water by the River

Yes, fully agree. I just wrote about the soul (reluctantly, and highlighting its relative and illusion level), because its quite easy to ignore Karma and cause-effect when flying high on "its all imagined". Water by the River

Dear RedLine, valid questions, but answering them in detail would cause another waaay to long rambling from my side. The answers to your questions are in my previous posts. Please feel invited to check them out, and if you don't find something useful for your questions, feel free to send me a PM. Short answer is: Both Vedanta and Buddhist meditation system know and use Nondual states. The trick is how to get there. Latest when getting nondual states (and probably already before when you really start to get the emptiness nature of every thought arising, and can start to dissolve your own suffering-self-contraction-arisings), you will be hellbent to continue the path. Also, the paths starts showing itself to itself then. It goes "downhill" from there, not uphill. Because you have seen the benefits of the path there (bliss starts flowing). One could say that Vedanta and Theravada tend quite strongly towards concentrative methods, same as the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali for example and Zen. But not exclusively. See Daniel Browns dissertation for example. The Mahamudra system has got some real unique techniques of combining concentrative and insight elements to learn to be able to ride along the mental talk of the mindstream in a lucid/mindful way. That way, you can use daily life very efficient to get the necessary momentum for for example nondual states and getting to impersonal Awakened Awareness. I can only highly recommend Daniel Browns Pointing Out the Great Way on that topic. And by the way, one can't say Buddhist practice style, there many systems in Buddhism. Theravada is very different from for example Tibetan Mahamudra. My personal opinion is that the Mahamudra-Sytem (for example in the book of Brown) is orders of magnitude more efficient than most other systems I know. Selling Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awe "Awe is an emotion comparable to wonder[1] but less joyous. On Robert Plutchik's wheel of emotions[2] awe is modeled as a combination of surprise and fear. One dictionary definition is "an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like: in awe of God; " And in the german wikipedia, it defines it even better: "Ehrfurcht ist ein hochsprachliches Wort für eine mit Verehrung einhergehende Furcht. Sie bezieht sich immer auf einen übermächtigen (erhabenen) Adressaten, ob real oder fiktiv. Sie kann individuell oder allgemein üblich sein. Sie empfinden zu können, wird zumeist als Tugend angesehen. „Ehrfurcht“ ist stärker als „Scheu“ oder „Achtung“, schwächer als „Unterwerfung“ oder „Anbetung“. Im Brockhaus von 1896 wird die Ehrfurcht als „der höchste Grad der Ehrerbietung, das Gefühl der Hingabe an dasjenige, was man höher schätzt als sich selbst, sei es eine Person oder eine geistige Macht, wie Vaterland, Wissenschaft, Kirche, Staat, Menschheit, Gottheit“ beschrieben" "Awe is a fear that goes along veneration. Awe always relates to something that is perceived as overpowering (sublime) addressee, real or fictive. .... . In the Brockhaus dictionary of 1896 awe is described as "the highest degree of veneration, the feeling of submission to that which one values higher as ones own self, be it a person or a mental/spiritual power, like motherland, science, church, state, humanity or Divinity". Hope my translation is not completely off... Sure, later Reality/God/Divinity/Nothingness is experiences as ones own True Essence. But if one hasn't felt awe on the way there, I would take that as a big indicator that there is more juicy stuff to experience. Daniel Brown said that the genuine reaction to a glimpse of the Dharmakaya is awe. An awe that humbles the separate self to its knees. Because THAT is way overpowering, like "something that is perceived as overpowering (sublime) addressee" of the definition of awe above. Selling Water by the River

And the dream doesn't stop. Even after waking up, the dream/show continues. And if one goes Wake Up, Grow up, Clean Up, Show Up, one can have a happy lucid dream. And if one spiritual-bypasses, one can have a nightmare. And then it is more challenging staying lucid in. Also, controversial topic, but here is my take: The separate self is an illusion, but appears. And same with the soul. It is an illusion, but appears. So it has "relative" reality as illusion, just like the separate-self. It takes the aspects of wisdom/transcendence and love/compassion of a being/perspective from life to life. At least according to Tibetan Buddhism, at least these two aspects are the soul that don't die with death. The bundle of karmic imprints that goes from one life to the next. It is also just an illusion, but appears. Do you think any being that has woken up would cut off his hand just for fun? Do "dumb" things that make life not a celebration, but "hey, today I feel like cutting off my hand just to see the drama of it". Because it is just an illusion? Yeah, very smart.... , and for sure that what the Kosmos wants.... And same with the illusion of the soul and Karma. This whole universe is growing to more complexity, and humanity is also not going in a circle stone age - industrial age - all gets blown up - stone age - ... - n+1 for the 100s time. No, it goes directly, and fast, from bacteria-plant-animal-human-awakening of some- awakening of more - .... Ken Wilber calls that drive of the Kosmos Eros, or growth to higher integration and complexity. And then maybe an upload of the whole hive-mind to subtle realities (Andrew Gallimore, "Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game"). That would perfectly explain the Fermi-Paradoxon. But hey, I am rambling on. Luckily, my other posts are rather short.... Ken Wilber also said: When you have seen, and don't tell, your soul gets very very sick. So, woken up or not, want a celebration or a night-mare? Yours truly just loved the effects of not cutting off his hand for fun so far.... Selling Water by the River Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour. – Padmasambhava