Water by the River

Yes. Let us assume a few things as true (and see if they resonate): (1) that Reality ultimately is "good" (and not evil) and wants every being to finally realize its True Being. (2) Which (realizing True Being) luckily is the same as peace/bliss/happiness. (3) What is the ONLY way to ensure that? Suffering until realizing Ones True Being. At least suffering from time to time, to make beings keep searching and growing... Only Alternative to that is: happy ever after not knowing or realizing what one really is, or what Reality is. Forever. Sounds rather cruel to me.... It is some kind of mathematical-logical formula if we just work with these three assumptions (that is why I wrote if they resonate). If we assume that these three points (1) (2) (3) are true, there has to be sometimes suffering until Full Realization happens. And only the final thing (Full Realization, Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment) delivers the peace of the transcedence of suffering. And its not bleak, empty, dead, nothing, or "personal minus". It is the Fullness of Reality, personal/character (plus) minus separation. The celebration of manifestation, but without attachment. The character then can grow to its full potential, fear gone, joy and celebration here and now. And the even better news is: One only illusory "leaving" ones True Nature and being separate. No"one" ever could really be separate. That is not possible in an Infinite Totality. It can only appear as such. The ILLUSION-arising of the separate-self within Oneself (True Self). So THAT is the ultimate criteria or compass if there is one: Suffering or not. Separate-Self Contraction (and Illusion/Ignorance) or not. An imaginary trip back home, after casting Oneself out into manifesting Infinite Realms of form and manifestation. Bon Voyage & lets don't forget to celebrate the ride back home. And lets never declare a stage as end-point that contains suffering. It only prolongs the way back home, until that illusion-mindset is also broken by suffering. Selling Water by the River She who is centered in the Tao can go where she wishes, without danger. She perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart. Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself. Approach it and there is no beginning; follow it and there is no end. You can’t know it, but you can be it, at ease in your own life. Just realize where you come from: this is the essence of wisdom - Tao Te Ching

Well, BazookaJesus is the most AWAKE, and Nobody is enlightened. Ok, enough kidding. Awakening: Basically, you can experience 95% of Nonduality/Mystical Experiences with a center/separate-self still not fully seen through/transcended. And that is what prevents fully realizing or Being Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself. You definitely can have Unity/Nonduality Experiences with some kind of separate-self (although often quite empty, ego/persona quite transcended) still well & alive. Full Enlightenment: When these last remnants of the separate self disfiguring True Nonduality (or ones True Nature of Infinite Reality itself) are seen through, transcended, suffering ends and grasping for experiences/insights/understandings end. Impersonal centerless Empty Boundless Eternal Infinite Consciousness/Reality. That which you and every being already is right now, can never not be, but are (maybe) not fully aware of. Semantic Challenge: Often Enlightenments and Awakenings are equated and/or confused. But most often, Enlightenment is considered an "end-state", an end of suffering. Understanding of relative stuff and exploration & the adventure of course can continue. But beyond Full Enlightenment there is only more relative stuff (form) to explore. The Absolute Reality has been understood or realized. Suffering is dramatically(!) reduced and the potential of Ones True Nature to fully end suffering is understood and takes over understanding/being what One really is is the hallmark of Full Enlightenment. More on the topic: And confusing Awakening and (Full) Enlightenment is confusing the road to more high-level-dreams (with some necessary illusion/ignorance/suffering) with the road to the Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment, or the end of suffering. All has its time and place, and the point of the ride is the ride. But at some point, comming home is also wonderful. Beautiful Book: Coming Home: The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions, Lex Hixon Bon Voyage Water by the River

Well, I don't have the worry that humanity will run out of gladiators any time soon. But some of the smarter gladiators could start thinking of themselves as Manjushri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjushri "Mañjuśrī is depicted as a male bodhisattva wielding a flaming sword in his right hand, representing the realization of transcendent wisdom which cuts down ignorance and duality." ... and the show will go on. And Maya will smile at us all. And a few could even smile back and not look serious at all. And maybe the ones smiling and having fun are or were candidates of Mañjuśrī-Seppuku? Well, if there weren't a show like that already running... One (without a second) ought imagine one.... Water by the River

Very true. Any sign of specialness and self-importance is a sure and perfect sign that somebody is not resting in True Nature. Self-Importance is among Mayas most seductive tricks. And its even totally logical: If one deeply identifies with being all of Infinite Reality, how could one part of Reality/Oneself be more "self"-important or special than another part? Where is then the "other" one could superior to, special to, or self-important towards to? Selling Water by the River @Bazooka Jesus : And that is why Bazooka Jesus is the most awake, because such a "I am the most...."- post has to made with the biggest smile possible. On which, so far, Bazooka has perfectly succeeded.

Maybe a mariachi or two were deeply impressed by Selling Water by the River

Wise words. After waking up reality becomes a lucid dream so to say, but one can still have a nightmare or a beautiful dream. And a beautiful dream can be considered to be delivered by good Karma (or wise actions, affecting all of Maslows exchange levels). And mainly love and compassion bring good Karma. And Shadow-work increases love. So it makes for a more beautiful dream. Still a dream, still relative truth, but a nicer one. And "promoting" the nightmare, or casually risking it, is ... well, not so, um, sustainable. Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour. – Padmasambhava Selling Water by the River

And the answer from God/Reality: Not today, darling. Selling Water by the River

IT is available any time, and most of the time it is always there without doing anything. If the character gets annoying and tries to generate bad emotions via suffering (which has reduced tremendously anyway), "I" just look into it, see what "I" really am, what the "substance" of the character trying to close down/feel bad really is, and the bug is dead and transcended again. Goes from "oh, that is not good"-character-arising to a small voice somewhere in the background unable to grip attention, and the field again nondual and infinite without center. The arisings of the separate self just stop, don't get believed anymore, loose their hypnotic power, because it feels way better and the "choice" is there. Yet, my functional character works better than ever. Less filters, more intuition, much more bliss, love and compassion. What would it be worth if it wouldn't be always available? Its actually too good to be true, besides being true. @Arthogaan wrote that a bit more direct experience description is appreciated, which I understand. Which I don't often do, because here is already enough ego-bravado, so I tend to write more on the neutral and technical side. But at the same time, sometimes it is probably good to write a bit more about direct experience. Besides, when I write technical descriptions, I write it from own experience and understanding, and use the best sources I know to show how similiar the deep structure is over various systems and paths. Water by the River PS: And a more technical description, using an analogy: Before fully realizing what one really is (Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Awareness/Nothingness without a second), one doesn't really know that 2 +2 is 4. One intuits maybe that it is more like 3,9 than 8,5. One intuits that it is eternal (always here), nondual, infinite, mere appearance (lets say thats 4.5). But its not fully impersonal, some individuality of being a separate "anything" (although already an aware nothing) being still there. Ones Deep Identity is not obviously fully it, because that Realization is still missing. Roger Thisdells Videos stage 4 and stage 5 are the best material I am aware of to describe that subtle (but absolutely deciding) difference. But once knowing ones True Nature (when it becomes really nondual, fully impersponal, yet at the same time really the Whole Reality), one knows exactly that 2 +2 is 4, always has been, always will be, and can't be different. There is no more doubt about. Couldn't be. Doubt is moving within Oneself, it doesn't make sense, one knows its structure as moving arising appearing (doubt-) thought. Reality is directly known and understood by BEING it. Infinite Consciousness/Reality understands/realizes its own essence/being. There is nothing else besides "it", and nothing else that is or could be aware. So it can only be known by being it, the boundless infinite nondual Totality. The first time realizing 2 + 2 is 4 is a direct and unmistakenable realization/experience into THAT which is (and was) always here and the case. The magic word is fully impersonal, fully empty, separate self fully transcended/dead/gone. That is the common denominator of all Full Enlightenment Experiences/Realization descriptions. They all use different surface language, that is the deep structure element in all of them. If that is missing, it is one of the preliminary Enlightenment/Awakening Experiences on the path leading to the Full Realization/Shift. And after knowing/realizing 2+2 is 4, that knowing is always available in case one gets sloppy and the character tries to create some confusion or suffering. I look into the character-arisings, see there Nature/Substance, which is the same unnameable Suchness of Everything, of Reality, and 2+2 is 4, the character bug is dead again, and doesn't cause suffering. So in that way, it is always available (it is and was there all along anyway), and one reorients the whole character to constantly stay in that. In Ken Wilbers Words: From Peak Experience to Plateau to Permanent (which holds for all transformation stages). But once 2 + 2 = 4 is known, then the separate self character just burns like ice in the desert. Maybe that is a bit helpful. PS PS: And of course, lets not forget, only @Bazooka Jesus is AWAKE. The ONE and ONLY.

Yes, very true. One IS already Reality, but some arisings ("my person") is clouding this understanding/realization/Enlightenment, and causes suffering. Sorry, can't stop the commerical : My path basically was Trekchö: Learning to cut off the "clouding-over mechanism" of the separate self illusion fast enough. And before getting fast enough, getting familiar enough with it. But each way is unique, each being has certain points to work on and navigate and transcend. Yet, I am still highly convinced of this method for transcendence when one is ready for it. Bon Voyage! Water by the River

Yes. Let me allow to hijack the post Beyond the "no-self" of no biographical self/ego self there are some more "encompassing" "higher" no-selfs. Or better said: Some stages of much more empty no-selves. First personality/biographical self/"ego" goes (1) then time goes: Always here Mind, time is just a concept (2) Then the locatedness of being in the body for example goes: one is the whole visual field, or beginning nonduality (3) then that becomes infinite. Anything that could appear appears in boundless Reality/Infinite Consciousness. (4) Then we have personality/egoless (1), timeless (2), boundless/nondual (3) and infinite (4). All of these are Awakenings/Enlightenments. But not the Full Enlightenment/Waking Up. But then there is even a murky no-self still there: It is nothing, totally empty, but still some individuality/separation still there, moving as I-thought/I-feeling on Reality/Oneself. This here: IN that state (1)+(2)+(3)+(4), when all last traces of individuality are seen moving within onself (that takes time), then the Big Bang or Waking Up or Full Enlightenment can happen, where one actually becomes Reality, no more questions left. And Infinite Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness can be described as (True) No-Self (since no individuality is left splitting Reality in two), or as Self (because all possible worlds appear in it). Then You ARE Absolute Reality (everything that shows or could ever appear, and all beings/perspectives), but no longer confuse a separate individual part for your true self. I have written about that before in previous posts, one can search for examle if one is so inclined for Basis Enlightenment in my posts. The problem quite often here on this forum, and with the effect of some of Leos teachings: Thinking one has realized No-Self, while one has NOT achieved True No Self, but some of the preliminary versions of No-Self (see above), boosted by psychedelics, and including a lot of higher realm stuff accessed with that. Nothing too bad with that, if it is just a step/stage, is just not the end of the story, and doesn't end suffering. Or worse: Not even having had the Awakenings (1)-(4), and just conceptually boosting the separate self and equating it with God/Reality. Problem of these stages: Instead of finally transcending/killing the separate self, these moves boost it. And most important: Only @Bazooka Jesus is awake. I mean, come on, that mother of declaration of AWAKE can not be topped, so I think that is something we can all agree on Selling Water by the River PS: To make it a bit more practical: Ever dreamt you were somebody/something completely different? Or dreamt of being just an empty camera not self-reflective at all, just watching, thinking and reflecting nothing? That is pretty near. Infinite Consciousness is totally empty, just aware. Can take any feeling/thinking of being anything, anyone, anybody. It is empty, impersonal, so that it is compatible to any mindstream. "IT" is already the Awareness of all Beings. YOU! Already. But not what you think you are. Only an empty Awareness can be in the perspectives/mindstreams of other beings/perspectives, not the "loaded" mindstream of a being that still feels separate (has ego-arisings the cause the illusion of being something specific/separate). Imagine being somebody/something completely different. An Alien. A cat. And YOU, your Awareness is still there. And nothing really is lost if such a shift were to happen. So nothing is lost, just the illusion that all the thinking/feeling brings, moves, in you. And besides this Awareness/Nothingness, nothing is, was, ever will be. THIS is also all appearances, Consciousness appearing as appearances, nondual. IT is Reality itself. And to fully get/understand that, ALL identity has to go. Impersonal, Fully Empty Awareness. Nondual and infinite, timeless, always here, never not possible being not here. Anything possible necessarily appearing in IT/YOU. And the True One/You are still there... Impersonal. Silent. Infinite. Aware. Timeless. Containing all appearances. Nothing besides it. One without a second. Reality itself.

https://integrallife.com/wake-grow-edge-unknown-human-being/ Selling Water by the River

Enlightenment without Shadow-work can be very very awake. And very very uncool, abusive and cult-like, like this example: Wilber on Adi Da: http://www.adidawilber.com/update_on_case_of_adi_da/ So, why not at least strive for the cool, integrated and loving version? With shadow-work, maturity, love and compassion? Enlightened or not, the cool & integral version of realization is a happier dream than the Adi-Da version. Although Adi Da is very awake, see the videos of him on youtube. Selling Water by the River PS: Only @Bazooka Jesusis awake

Yes, it happened and it does make a sound. Because even molecules and atoms are Holons, or perspectives of consciousness in Indras Net. And "they" react to and "perceive" all other atoms/molecules Holon perspectives. If we say all is consciousness and all is imagined, we should be consequent. The Supernova affects all other building blocks of the Universe (which are of course also only Consciousness/Holons/Nodes in Indras Net, in this case mainly molecules), although these "other" building blocks/Holons/perspectives are also only imagined (so they are relative truth). For more on that, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality", or Arthur Koestler on Holon Theory. Selling Water by the River

. And as long as there is stil a YOU to be more awake (and which building blocks/I-thoughts/I-feelings are actually still believed and not cut-off as more BS illusion/ignorance), you are definitely right that YOU are more awake. Only thing I am not clear: Is that sentence already a critique or lèse-majesty to the Most AWAKE Bazooka Jesus, or a confirmation? Our beloved Bazooka Jesus has some dark "evil clown" sides to him. Love it! Oh well, every Mania has to be paid by its opposite-side, Depression. Maybe that is the case. Or just a well deserved holiday, and back into conceptual Absolute Solipsism business with even more energy soon, taking (as usual) no prisoners. Wonder if any self-reflecting "Are you not entertained?" will show up at some point in time if the business continues as usual... Well, we stay tuned. Reality is merciful: Any claimed Enlightenment which is not the real thing shows up again later as suffering. No one (dead or alive) gets left behind halfway up the mountain... Selling Water by the River

Wow, that has set a very high benchmark for a 1000th post. If that isn't art, I don't know what is. So if there are any imaginary nonduality-wars to be fought (Arjuna anybody?), lets do them relaxed, with compassion, cool, with style and smart. If our Bodhisattvas Manjrushi & Guanying are going to continue to do their thing, then in the 21st century they sometimes need the support of Bazooka Jesus & company: Long live the one and only AWAKE Bazooka Jesus! Water by the River PS: Um, who exactly is there awake?

And it is a blessing that you are & share here in this forum. Thank you! Water by the River

Yes. Lasting Happiness = Resting in Ones True Nature = Full Impersonal Enlightenment into Infinite Consciosness/Nothingness/Reality (pointers I like), or what Inliytened1 is pointing to below. The alternative is the merry go round of chasing experiences/states for the relief of the suffering the separate self-identity/contraction causes. Francis Lucille videos linked above are along these topics. Water by the River

There is wisdom in your post. Maybe you like this here from Francis Lucille: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk0LxK9L9p8&t=62s "The purpose of life is very simple: Its happiness." And the constant version of that comes with Enlightenment, or realizing what one really is. And more of Francis Lucille on Happiness and Enlightenment: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Francis+Lucille+Happiness+ And anyone saying they prefer "Understandings" in/of the Infinity of Manifestations of Infinite Consciousness (and not the truly Infinite Absolute Reality), or any kind of (sublime) experience, or whatever, over this happiness of Ones True Infinite Being.... I don't buy that. That mindset is not the end of the road. Suffering will break that mindset at some point, by definition. Every being strives for the happiness of permanently resting and living out of their True Nature. Temporarily gaining happiness over experiences that remove the self-contraction (temporarily) is just more of the game of separation & suffering &relieve over beautiful experiences & suffering again cycle. Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

Very true. A good conceptual framework leads to practicing a path that drops one in an empty and impersonal awakened nondual state at the Gateless Gate. For passing the Gateless Gate, the framework and its framework-holder-identity must be transcended/thrown-away completely/cut-off Trekchö-style and let go. And crossing over is grace. It can't be forced. ("Nonmeditation Yoga"). But dropping the framework/path before being in a "compatible" empty ("impersonal") awakened state at the Gateless Gate also doesn't work. Selling Water by the River

Thank you very much for posting that video. I can confirm from long time experience (10 years+) of walking this path (Mahamudra, especially the system outlined in Pointing out the Great Way, but also Dzogchen) is very effective. It is orders of magnitude more effective in taking meditation and Awakening off the pillow into daily life than any other meditation system I am aware of, and I read about & tried quite some. I am convinced that with any other system it would have taken me at least 2-3 times longer at least, probably more. Getting meditation off the pillow and into daily life, not as mindfulness but more as Trekchö, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekchö#:~:text=In Dzogchen%2C trekchö (khregs chod,with its admonition against practice. , is in my experience essential to get the momentum of Awakened States going that is necessary for further insights - at least if one is not (geneticall or karmically) prodigy-like-gifted. Here Daniel Brown talks about the beginnings of Awakened-States, starting to get nondual: One thing to keep in mind: He already had Parkinson at that time of the shooting of that video, it was 3-4 years before his passing away last year. But besides that impacting him already, one can clearly feel his awakened state and presence. Water by the River PS: A brief summary of my experiences with the Mahamudra-System:

Very wise comments. That move tends to blow up any remaining identity. Instead of gradually letting all remains naturally dissolve into the true self-less/impersonal/empty Infinite Totality of Reality itself. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is frowned upon talking about ones realization, because normally its not beneficial for anybody involved. It tends to blow up self-importance, which is among Mayas most seductive kisses. "Separate-self"-importance, or the equivalent of shooting oneself in the knee and starting running the marathon towards fully empty and impersonal Infinite Consciousness. A very sharp indiciator is the conduct with which one lives ones life over the years, and the states which one radiates during that. Instead of any claims. That is how the Tibetans do it. Sadly, not so much the Westener Students that many of the not-so-enlightened Rinpoches attract... Water by the River

Probably a few trainwrecks, clusterf*****, maybe even a few voluntary early returns to the source ahead. And bad Karma for many involved. Maybe some experienced and integrated and hopefully quite awakened ones will benefit. Lets see and hope the best. I just hope it won't be too much show. I personally wouldn't dare rolling out something like that to customers/course-recipients that have not been personally qualified on an individual basis for personal readiness, maturity and wisdom. Over a long time of screening. And rolling out a paid course to an audiance which in large parts gets picked up via the google drag-net fishing in many cases those with serious psychological problems... If we all agree that the Reality is Infinite Intelligence, this Reality has zero problems with handing out Karma for such an endeavour if it fails and has got negative (or very negative) impact on weighted average. And Reality is not fair & straight in rolling out Karma. One essential ingridient of Lila/Maya is the illusion-element of the trickster. The seductress Maya. Looks good in the beginning as attractive choice, and then later one gets served ones Karma. But in either way the outcome will be, probably literally the hell of a show ahead... Bon voyage Water by the River