Water by the River

Yes You Will Know Them by Their Fruits Matthew 7:15-20 Ken Wilber: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean. Somehow it just kind of closes them down. It's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience" And I would be more than happy if Ken Wilbers obversation doesn't hold on certain cases, and further integration and growing gentleness & love & compassion happens. Yet, we have come to see time and time again that all the past declarations of moderation have had their "challenges in implementation". Yours truly has learned the hard way that going aggresive on anything is a less than smart idea, because doing that immediately stops any kind of awakened nondual state by closing down, cutting the flow of bliss, love and compassion from the source. Causing only more suffering on top of the suffering/pain occuring by the thing causing the aggresiveness. There is no stable baseline state of staying awakened without compassion and love. And the alternative to compassion and love can only be ones own suffering. That learning & knowing (and not allowing closing-down emotions&actions) is one of the advantages of going the sobre paths. One learns time and time again not to do certain less than smart stuff because of the negative effect it has on ones state. Instant Karma so to say. There are "security locks" on Nonduality & Awakened states & Enlightenment installed by Reality itself, and of course having an autoimmune/allergic-reaction on something happening in ones visual field, in Ones Own True Being actually, (and that something can be a different opinion written in a forum, criticizing certain core beliefes/values/whatever) splits the Nondual Reality in two and causes duality and suffering. Without compassion & love (in Buddhism Boddhichitta, but all spiritual traditions have this sort of value and practice) it is impossible to truly rest in a stable way in Ones True Nondual Nature. And it is even logical: If one hates a part of oneself, one has an autoimmune/allergic reaction, making one sick/not healthy, and that splits Nonduality into fragments (one fragment/appearance hating the other fragment/appearance): Duality & suffering by definition. Selling Water by the River PS: And "not caring about being human" is of course not the path of differentiation & transcendence and integration (or healthy growth), but differentiation, disassociation and failing integration (sick "growth"), stopping continued transcendence/growth in its tracks, leading to a variety of symptoms and failed growth on many development lines. For more on that, see Ken Wilber growth model, describing in detail exactly what we can watch here. Best described in Wilber, "The Religion of Tomorrow: A Vision for the Future of the Great Traditions" (see quote below). Ken Wilber in "The Religion of Tomorrow: A Vision for the Future of the Great Traditions" One can step deeply enough into thetimeless Now to step into another dimension altogether—just step right here, and push hard. It’s easy to get lost in those worlds, which are, at bottom, simply different dimensions and perspectives of one’s own (violet) consciousness (although, as noted, from another angle, they are all real, ontologically different realms because they are each genuinely co-enacted by a different perspective in consciousness). Given that this stage is the first great transition from “earthly” realms to “heavenly” realms (as a permanent structural enaction), getting lost in these “higher worlds” is indeed one of the most common dysfunctions of this level. The deeply transcendental, otherworldly, electrically visionary nature of consciousness at this altitude makes fixation to this side of the street an incredibly inviting and alluring venture. This is likely to couple with the dysfunction, discussed earlier, of standing in heaven and giving a blistering critique of life here on earth, with all the semiprophetic pomp and pomposity that comes with it. One of the things that often happens with these specific dysfunctions is that, after making some initial discovery of a timeless Now or pure Present (either in 3rd-tier structures or higher states), one can step into that Present and then step right through it into what seem to be endless, “deeper,” “higher” realms altogether, a kaleidoscopic cascade of universes upon universes that at one point seem to be nothing but a slight wiggle in this moment’s timeless Now, and then at the next explode into almost infinitely extending real realms that are all alive and invite exploration—with a sign on the door that says “Welcome to Heaven!” This is extremely common in high subtle and low causal states, but if it happens with structures, it tends to happen right here, with the violet meta-mind (due largely to its visionary nature). In short, getting “lost in heaven” is the most common dysfunction of this level. As a dysfunction, it is—in terms of simple numbers— much more common as a result of a malformation in high subtle or causal states (given that subtle and causal states are much more common than this high altitude, and most states, and their dysfunctions, can be experienced at almost any structure-stage). But this problem is simply the living result of the enactive nature of the real world and the fact that consciousness can co-create an almost endless number of universes, any number of which one can become fixated or semiaddicted to, with straightforwardly dysfunctional results." And for experiencing all of that, meditation and/or Out of body experiences (OBEs) are and have been an alternative methods to psychedelics (which also have been used ever since, see "Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana" for example. For access on these realms via meditation/OBEs/psychedelics, see also the work of for example Jürgen Ziewe (OBEs), Christopher Bache, Stanislav Grof, Rick Straussman, Andrew Gallimore, Graham Hancock in Visionary, and so on. Lot of other sources on request. There is nothing new under the sun. "Although my view is higher than the sky, my respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour" - Padmasambhava

Yes, often the balance is missing, and there is only Emptiness-talk. Probably 99,9% of Buddhists are not enlightened, so a lot of incorrect stuff can be found. The Infinite Consciousness (or Infinity, Infinite Mind) aspect/facet can be found at quite some places. For example Huang Po, or the Yogachara School of Mind only, or Dzogchen/the Supreme Source. I don't consider myself in any way exclusively Buddhist,in all wisdom traditions beautiful pointers and paths can be found. Maybe some people find the links below interesting: Dzogchen, Supreme Source: Yogachara School of Mind only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara and Chan/Zen: Huang Po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun " One Mind[edit] Huángbò's teaching centered on the concept of “mind” (Chinese: hsin), a central issue for Buddhism in China for the previous two centuries or more. He taught that mind cannot be sought by the mind. One of his most important sayings was “mind is the Buddha”. He said: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient beings.[8] He also said: To awaken suddenly to the fact that your own Mind is the Buddha, that there is nothing to be attained or a single action to be performed – this is the Supreme Way.[9] He also firmly rejected all dualism, especially between the “ordinary” and “enlightened” states: If you would only rid yourselves of the concepts of ordinary and Enlightened, you would find that there is no other Buddha than the Buddha in your own Mind. The arising and the elimination of illusion are both illusory. Illusion is not something rooted in Reality; it exists because of your dualistic thinking. If you will only cease to indulge in opposed concepts such as ‘ordinary’ and ‘Enlightened’, illusion will cease of itself.[10]" More stuff on request. Selling Water by the River

Hi Someonehere, no criticizm in what I write below, just my view on things. Maybe it is useful. It is a concept, a belief, and it is additionally it constitutes a value (of yours). Valueing dropping all beliefs higher than not dropping all beliefs, else one wouldn't intend to drop all beliefs. It is a form relativism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism leading to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism It is something dangerous to do, a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction To be able to spot this performative contradiction clearly is one of the key differences of green and yellow cognition. Going from relativistic cognition to integral cognition. At least to the inventors of Spiral Dynamics. In my experiences, suffering tends to happen when there are contradictions. Wanting something, but not getting it. Not wanting somehting but getting it. Or just two things/motivations/views/beliefs conflicting. A separate self until Enlightenment is basically a self-contradiction walking on two feet, and suffering the contradiction and contraction. As long as one suffers, there is still some transcendence to do. Yes, that is my perspective and life-experience. I am talking about transcendence/practice here, not the usual "have to do something" projects of the separate-self. It's difficult for me to understand what you are saying . Please try to put it in a different way . Goods views/good beliefs/good way to life/practice to transcending leads to liberation and the end of suffering. Bad views/bad beliefs keep the suffering ongoing. And Nihilism, Narcissism and self-grandiosity are dangerous, because they always lead to suffering. Selling Water by the River

Thanks for your post. Please allow me some musings on these topics. You write "I no longer believe in any thing. no belief systems whatsoever". That itself is a belief system, and pretty close to Nihilism. And that causes a performative contradiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction which can make one a Nihilistic and/or Narcissistic self-contradiction walking on two feet. And an (internal) contradiction is a (internal) conflict, leading to suffering. In the Relative Truth domain (not on the Absolute Truth domain), one can not do without beliefs/view/perspective/value system. Even saying there is no value system is a value judgement and system, that produces its own contradictions, therefor suffering and Karma. For the difference between Relative Truth and Absolute Truth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine These contradiction in ones value system (or between stated value system and actions) seem to be a bit in fashion nowadays in certain recent events, although some have even spotted and stated that dynamic, but apparently are a bit challenged implementing that insight. And whereever is a conflict (either within the value system, or between the value system and external behaviour, or just between ones intentions and ones bubble of Reality/Visual Field/Universe, there is suffering. Or conflict and other less-than-loving consequences. It is not yet integrated, or equilibrium and integrity are not yet fully achieved). A very wise statement is in @Moksha signature: "Just because God loves you doesn't mean it is going to shape the cosmos to suit you. God loves you so much that it will shape you to suit the cosmos." Of course, that only becomes possible with certain transcendence of separate-self-elements trying to shape the cosmos according to its egoic demands. To be able to do what the quote describes means aligning ones own intentions with the intentions of the cosmos, and intepreting these intentions correctly (and this is where a good relative-truth value/belief-system is crucial, which aligns with the cosmos. Only such a belief/value-system can "carry" any permanent realization of transcendence). And allowing to get shaped by the cosmos in a good way. And that is why yours truly has the utmost respect of the delusion-forces of Narcissism and self-grandiosity, in whatever form they come. And Narcicissm and self-grandiosity is the final stop of the Nihilism/Solipsism-train, always. The separate-self is a structure/Gestalt built to cloud transcendence/Truth, and these tools are Mayas most seductive and most difficult to transcend devices to keep beings trapped. It takes ruthless self-honesty, self-awareness and integrity to get rid of these bugs. It is no coincidence that a Solipsism done on Ego-level/relative-level (not on Absolute Level, there we can talk about it) leads to Narcissism, and finally Nihilism, and then suffering. Ken Wilber writes a lot on the performative contradiction (especially of the green meme) in Boomeritis. It goes: Relativism, Nihilism, Narcissism (nobody tell me what to do!), self-grandiosity, suffering. Good views and belief systems, true on a relative level, can lead one to Absolute Truth, Love and Transcendence. To a good life with minimum amount of suffering. Bad views just lead to more suffering and self-contraction. Realization itself rests on a good and conflict-free belief- and value system on a relative level. Good views/value systems liberate (and lead to non-conceptual practice and transcendence), bad ones directly lead to the hell that Samsara can be. All the best! Selling Water by the River

Applied & hired! Water by the River

The repetition? Because of what is described below. Not that somebody (including yours truly) takes all of this here really serious and as more than just imagined illusions , and actually gets triggered by the dream. Selling Water by the River

No worries. Neither Steve Jobs nor yours truly empty mirror frame got hurt by imaginary icepicks. Although I would still vote for Bazooka as the most awake, lets agree to disagree on that and certain other issues from time to time? Um, so let us all smoke the pipe of peace with an ingridient of ones preference, and peace & love & respect again. From my side no bad feelings. Water by the River

"Everyone of these nondualist/Buddhist teachers who thinks he is enlightened is dreaming it and its not conscious that he's doing so. He tells himself that he's awake, he truly believes it" That is your assumption, and it is incorrect. There is no agency-arising left that identifies with "is enlightened" and which is still believed and not seen as dream, moving as illusion arising within Infinite Consciousness/Reality. There is no one left who believes he is awake. That is exactly what is seen through with Full Enlightenment. Enlightenment is the Realization that there is no separate anything, nevery was (only as illusion), and never will be. Only the Totality of Absolute Reality. Water by the River

Heard that somewhere before. Sure, there is a lot of .... God and manifestation between Heaven and Earth to understand & explore and awaken to. Enough to keep God busy until.... Infinity & Eternity. Anyway, bon voyage, enjoy the ride, and all the best. When you are done awakening, don't forget to come home. Water by the River

Some questions are still unanswered from your side in the post below: from Did you notice that in your post you just make claims, but give zero reasoning, arguments or experience-descriptions to argue these claims? Water by the River

No, just Selling Water by the River

(Manifest) Reality is also clearly biased: Despite the physical universe winding down towards more Entropy (or basically every energy/matter evenly mixed and distributed), on pretty much every other level it winds up: Evolution from atoms to molecules to bacteria to plants to animals to humans, from stoneage to larger neoltihic groups, to ancient states and empires, industrial age, information age, and onwards to a completely unforeseeable future. Upload to some subtle realms , infinite other dimensions to be explored, and all that stuff. We are not walking on a planet where there have been 500 civilizations that all failed, blown themselves up in nuclear war, and started again in stone age. Such a game is possible, in which we would dig out ruins that we know nothing about, since they are the 462 restart of 4 millions years ago, where no informations have survived what happened but only some stone ruins. No, this here is the first try, and its still running fine and progressing with incredible speed. Manifest Reality (from everything we see) is clearly biased to "winding up", towards evolution, more complexity, transcendence and love. Ken Wilber calls this drive/tendency of the Universe Eros. Reaching a level of complexity where it also can actually realize itself, happening a long time ago with the first Truly Nondual Realizers (Plotinus, Parmenidies, Nagarjuna, and so on). Infinity/Unmanifest/Nothingness, Big Bang/Involution (see Wilber for Involution), Evolution, trip back home, and once more. The big game of hide and seek. That (Eros, Evolution) is one aspect of reality. An other deep aspect is the unconditional love (Agape) that also runs through the fabric of reality, creating and sustaining all beings on every level. All of us, right here, right now, with incredible complexity. I agree that for example the Assyrians in their attempt to build one of the first really large empires that encompassed many kingdoms and tribes were sometimes very cruel. Reality can not intervene in a physical universe and send some guardian angel from the sky. That would break the game immediately. But is that cruelty still in fashion? It is mostly frowned upon by nearly all people nowadays. That cruelty is not the main tendency of reality. It is the complexity of evolution that sometimes goes sour, of separate beings sacrificing fellow beings for their "Atman-projects", building empires as surrogates for transcendence, as Ken Wilber calls it. And yet, as we see when we look back, these empires were necessary for a larger integration and unity, at least in certain ways. Wilber, Up from Eden: A Transpersonal View of Human Evolution. I think you would like the book. And you are also right in the following aspect: As we see, despite the Horror story, Absolute Reality didn't get broken. "IT" has no moving parts that could get broken. In that way, it didn't care, since it didn't suffer, only contained suffering. That is the Absolute perspective. But when we consider it from a relative perspective (which we do as soon as we think about these events), we can also consider that most aspects and mechanisms of relative reality on the manifest/relative level in fact do wind up (not down), and in a way do care a lot that winding up, evolution, growth/development towards more love, or in general the way home, happens. Water by the River

Actually, there is already quite some saltwater-dose in my signature: But it is all good. Some years ago I would have probably written something exactly like UnbornTao. There is so much delusion in the spiritual marketplace that it is not wrong to sometimes "shake the tree" a bit and see what kind of fruit fall off (or what reactions come back). It is normally quite easy to tell which kind of tree has been shaken. Water by the River

It is my personal experience. I can do the Eckhart Tolle thing and sit for hours on a park bench, with bliss flowing through my being by cutting off the self-contraction and resting in what is. Which I often do. I was doubting that when it started (it started before all insights into the nature of being were fully in place), doubting it just like you. And then it didn't stop, didn't get broken, even by really heavy blows. It has established its own momentum and force and continued ripening. Then later what I really am got confirmed by certain states/realizations beyond any possible doubt. If my character tries to do its old thing of grasping certain experiences (or avoiding others) and suffering while doing so, there is literally the choice to believe it or rest in Awakened Awareness (which brings its own bliss, and more that the sought for experience), and it is spotted very fast. Can my "character-thing" be improved? For sure it can. It has a long hang-over of self-contraction. But its ability to really reestablish the self-contraction (which blocks the flow of bliss/openness of Awakened Awareness states) with real belief in it and on an ongoing basis is structurally gone. Well, I am not going to convince you just by writing. But not writing it is also not an option. Ken Wilber once wrote that the obligation one has if one sees is to tell, or else the soul gets very sick. I would have no problem leaving the forum behind. Although I enjoy writing, I got many nice things to besides, and wouldn't miss it. But it would be the wrong thing to do. So, I kindly ask you to be at least agnostic to what I write. Be also honest why you wrote "be honest". I have the feeling there is something mildly annoying you in my writing. I can only invite you to try the path I walked, and described in many posts (Mahamudra/Dzogchen, mainly Pointing out the Great Way), or any other path, and see for yourself. There is a risk of establishing self-limiting beliefs when there is too much doubt in the reachability of the fruits of the path. Literally every tradition confirms this as the potential of every sentient being. I will continue posting mainly these old texts (because they show the universality of these realizations over the centuries). Sometimes telling about "ones own" experience is ok, but if one does it all the time, it can easily become self-importance boosting, or can come across as such. Bon voyage Water by the River

Although it can appear tragic if some beings flunk some classes or are being led down the primerose path and have to repeat class.... the casting out of a Universe/Lila exactly as it is (including this forum) wouldn't happen if Spirit wouldn't want it. Everything is exactly as it should be. Yet everything evolves, growing in complexity and evolution, searching for a home it never left. A good drama needs light and dark, good and evil, night and day. Polarities and Duality need to exist for a Lila even getting started. In the long run, love and the path back home always wins. Because True Nature is True Nature, and Lila/ignorance only appear to be real. They are not. Every appearance is temporary. So I would appreciate you staying here, continuing and telling of your own unique path, which sounds quite interesting. There will always be darkness ignorance. Every being starts at square one, climbs the ladder as fast as possible to the point where it last stopped, and then continues. It is not a sin of the acorn that its not yet an oak. Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satcitananda "Satcitananda (सच्चिदानन्द) is a compounded Sanskrit word consisting of "sat", "chit", and "ananda", all three considered as inseparable from the nature of ultimate reality called Brahman in Hinduism.[9] The different forms of spelling is driven by euphonic (sandhi) rules of Sanskrit, useful in different contexts.[9] sat (सत्):[10] In Sanskrit, sat means "being, existence", "real, actual", "true, good, right", or "that which really is, existence, essence, true being, really existent, good, true".[10][note 2] cit (चित्):[12] means "consciousness" or "spirit".[13][14][15] ānanda (आनन्द):[16] means "happiness, joy, bliss", "pure happiness, one of three attributes of Atman or Brahman in the Vedanta philosophy".[16] Loctefeld and other scholars translate ananda as "bliss"" Shankara's Crest-Jewel of Discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivekacūḍāmaṇi Now I shall tell you the nature of the Atman. If you realize it, you will be freed from the bonds of ignorance, and attain liberation. There is a self-existent Reality, which is the basis of our consciousness of ego. That Reality is the witness of the three states of our consciousness, and is distinct from the five bodily coverings. That Reality is the knower in all states of consciousness-waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep. It is aware of the presence or absence of the mind and its functions. It is the Atman. That Reality sees everything by its own light. No one sees it. It gives intelligence to the mind and the intellect, but no one gives it light. That Reality pervades the universe, but no one penetrates it. It alone shines. The universe shines with its reflected light. Because of its presence, the body, senses, mind and intellect apply themselves to their respective functions, as though obeying its command. Its nature is eternal consciousness. It knows all things, from the sense of ego to the body itself. It is the knower of pleasure and pain and of the [ 62] sense-objects. It knows everything objectivelyjust as a man knows the objective existence of a jar. This is the Atman. the Supreme Being, the ancient. It never ceases to experience infinite joy. It is always the same. It is consciousness itself. The organs and vital energies function under its command. Here, within this body, in the pure mind, in the secret chamber of intelligence. in the infinite universe within the heart, the Atman shines in iu captivating splendour. like a noonday sun. By its light, the universe is revealed It is the knower of the activities of the mind and of the individual man. It is the witness of all the actions of the body, the sense-organs and the vital energy. It seems to be identified with all these, just as fire appears identified with an iron ball. But it neither acts nor is subject to the slightest change. The Atman is birthless and deathless. It neither grows nor decays. It is unchangeable, eternal. It does not dissolve when the body dissolves. Does the ether cease to exist when the jar that enclosed it is broken? The Atman is distinct from Maya, the primal cause, and from her effect, the universe. The nature of the Atman is pure consciousness. The Atman reveals this entire universe of mind and' matter. It cannot be defined. In and through the various states of consciousness-the waking. the dreaming and the sleeping-it maintains our unbroken awareness of identity. It manifests itself as the witness of the intelligence. Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jester "Jester's privilege Jester's privilege is the ability and right of a jester to talk and mock freely without being punished. As an acknowledgement of this right, the court jester had symbols denoting their status and protection under the law." Yet, you are working quite earnest on your own demise by self-transcedence... So, let's all drink to the death of a clown! May he be in permanent bliss and happy, Sat-Chit-Anada! And continue writing his usual hilarious posts ever after... Ain't no royal court like this lovely place here, with such magnificient royality, nobility, prophets, and even sometimes clergy, And with the most hilarious jester yours truly is aware of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_court "In the largest courts, the royal households, many thousands of individuals constituted the court. These courtiers included the monarch or noble's camarilla and retinue, household, nobility, clergy, those with court appointments, bodyguards, and may also include emissaries from other kingdoms or visitors to the court. Foreign princes and foreign nobility in exile may also seek refuge at a court." So Namaste, let's all drink to the death of a clown, and bon voyage everyone! Clowning by the Selling Water by the RIver

For the ants yes. For the one doing the tying it is not so good Karma, as it is for the one tied. Where do you get these examples from? Some mushroom was a bit kinky? An Infinity of Infinities (Cantor) means: Even if Reality keeps exploring new adventures/realms/dreams forever, it doesn't need to imagine all crap... Although quite some crap probably is imagined, just look at our lovely little planet. Shhh. Much more important is the Alien Awakening of the day, outdated in a week. There is stuff in my fridge that stays fresh longer... Selling Water by the River

Yes. All appearance/form is impermanent. Everything is appearance/form. What is Reality? What is constant? ... Beauty opens to the divine, and relaxes the contraction of the separate self perceiving the beauty for a moment. When aging, the youthful skin-deep beauty can be replaced by an even deeper beauty: A radiance of inherent love and openness, depending on the inner growth of the beautiful being. That radiance can have an even more heart-opening effect on others. A life well lived leads to a growing radiance of love/compassion and wisdom/awareness/peace. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is these two properties (wisdom/awareness and love/compassion) that are the main imprints of the soul carried from life to life as Karma. All of that happens on the relative level, but still decides the future of the (relative level) individual being/perspective, this life and the following ones. Until one is permanently established in non-separation, Karma holds its grip. Water by the River

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. - Tao Te Ching The paths can be pointed to with concepts, and the Tao can also be pointed to (mostly via negative). But not more than pointing. At the end, one has to become the Tao. The caterpillar has to die for the butterfly to reveal itself. Or instead, one can go exploring the "ten thousand things", never realizing the Tao (and being It). The discussion we are having here is millenia old. Just one example of many: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng They have been resolved in all traditions (Buddhism, Christian Mysticism, Jewish Mysticism, Vedante, Yoga, all of them...), always in the same way. Selling Water by the River PS: By the way, yours truly still writes long points full of technical pointers. So on this side here there is for sure no aversion to logic, concepts, thinking (on a Relative Truth level) and long technical texts. But at a certain point, shortly before the final deep realization (caterpillar -> butterfly), at the right state and view, all (!) of that pointing and all views (and any identity still left) have to stop for the Absolute to reveal itself, by itself, for itself. The Absolute Truth. And maybe that has not happened with certain people claiming something different than what all (!) wisdom traditions have claimed before. None of this can be proven until Enlightenment. Neither to these certain people, nor to anybody else. So all that remains for the seeker to choose its path is the little voice in the heart. And the energy and emotions that the proponents of the different perspectives radiate. Bon voyage!

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=bliss&author=Water by the River I know. What kind of idiot would post a search link to his own posts about the topic of bliss And probably some won't like the following statements (because they implicitely nothing else than a call to action for practice/meditation of whatever form, because suffering can end): When resting in ones True Nature in certain awakened states, the psychological resistance (to what is) of suffering is gone. And these states can go from peak state, to plateau, to permanent. Bliss and love and compassion flow then from ones True Core. Every being, depending on its Karma, has at least to potential to do and realize that, this life or the next. At some point of the path one gets the choice to do exactly that, and one wouldn't contract again, because it becomes a choice. Sure one can get sad, or feel pain, hunger, whatever, but no resistance to it, no contraction, no closing down. "One" stays open, no resistance or psychological suffering added on top. It blows through ones Being like the wind. Adi Da called the separate self "self-contraction", which can be relaxed with love. Sellling Water by the River Ken Wilber on that: Ken Wilber, One Taste: "Monday, March 24. With the awakening of constant consciousness, you becomesomething of a divine schizophrenic, in the popular sense of “split-minded,” because you have access to both the Witnessand the ego. You are actually “whole-minded,” but it sounds like it’s split, because you are aware of the constant Witness or Spirit in you, and you are also perfectly aware of themovie of life, the ego and all its ups and downs. So you still feel pain and suffering and sorrow, but they can no longer convince you of their importance—you are no longer the victim of life, but its Witness. In fact, because you are no longer afraid of your feelings,you can engage them with much greater intensity. The movie of life becomes more vivid and vibrant, precisely because you are no longer grasping or avoiding it, and thus no longer trying to dull or dilute it. You no longer turn the volume down. You might even cry harder, laugh louder, jump higher. Choiceless awareness doesn’t mean you cease to feel; it means you feel fully, feel deeply, feel to infinity itself, and laugh and cry and love until it hurts. Life jumps right off the screen, and you are one with all of it, because you don’t recoil. If you are having a dream, and you think it’s real, it can get very scary. Say you are dreaming that you are tightropewalking across Niagara Falls. If you fall off, you plunge to your death. So you are walking very slowly, very carefully.Then suppose you start lucid dreaming, and you realize that it’s just a dream. What do you do? Become more cautious and careful? No, you start jumping up and down on the tightrope, you do flips, you bounce around, you have a ball—precisely because you know it isn’t real. When you realize it’s a dream, you can afford to play. The same thing happens when you realize that ordinary life is just a dream, just a movie, just a play. You don’t become more cautious, more timid, more reserved. You start jumping up and down and doing flips, precisely because it’sall a dream, it’s all pure Emptiness. You don’t feel less, you feel more—because you can afford to. You are no longer afraid of dying, and therefore you are not afraid of living.You become radical and wild, intense and vivid, shocking and silly. You let it all come pouring through, because it’s all your dream. Life then assumes its true intensity, its vivid luminosity, itsradical effervescence. Pain is more painful and happiness is happier; joy is more joyous and sorrow is even sadder. It all comes radiantly alive to the mirror-mind, the mind that doesn’t grasp or avoid, but simply witnesses the play, and therefore can afford to play, even as it watches. What would motivate you if you saw everything as the dream of your own highest Self? What would actually move you in this playful dream world? Everything in the dream is basically fun, at some deep level, except for this: when you see your friends suffering because they think the dream is real, you want to relieve their suffering, you want them to wake up, too. Watching them suffer is not fun. And so a deep and powerful compassion arises in the heart of the awakened ones, and they seek, above all else, to awaken others—and thus relieve them from the sorrow and the pity,the torment and the pain, the terror and the anguish that comes from taking with dreadful seriousness the passing dream of life. So you are a divine schizophrenic, you are “split-minded” in the sense that you are simultaneously in touch with both the pure Witness and the world of the ego-film. But that really means you are actually “whole-minded,” because these two worlds are really not-two. The ego is just the dream of the Witness, the film that the Witness creates out of its own infinite plenitude, simply so it will have something to watch at the movies. At that point the entire play arises within your own constant consciousness. There is no inside and no outside, no in here versus out there. The nondual universe of One Taste arises as a spontaneous gesture of your own true nature. You can taste the sun and swallow the moon, and centuries fit in the palm of your hand. The pure I-I, the greatI AMness, breathes to infinity and creates a Kosmos as the Song of its very Self, and oceans of compassion fall as tears from your very own Original Face. Last night I saw the reflection of the moon in a cool clear crystal pond, and nothing else happened."

Hm, how about doing BOTH? Practicing transcendence/meditation AND doing shadow work? Considering both as important, because shadow work & growing up and speeds up waking up? No transcendence/meditation and no shadow work: Nightmare Only shadow work & working on good Karma, No transcendence/meditation: with a bit of luck a quite happy dream with a normal dose of suffering. But no Enlightenment normally. Only transcendence/meditation: Anything from enlightened not so cool freak-show to (usually) no Enlightenment at all (built in safety mechanisms of reality. We don't need enlightened jerks). transcendence/meditation + shadow work: anything from quite happy dream to very happy waking up It is in no way either or. Integral is doing both. And yours truly believes that nearly everybody can benefit from some shadow work. Selling Water by the RIver

It is more metaphorical. Nothing can permanently ignore what it really is, so the illusion of separation ends (even if it takes many lives) at some point ("pulls it all back"). Gravity is just a physical force, affecting matter. The other dynamic if "pulls it back" is working a few "manifestation-dynamics-levels" higher. Water by the River

Infinite Consciousness/Reality (I don't use God though technically correct because it creates more misunderstandings in this context than it solves. Like blowing up the Ego to God-sized dimensions, which the exactly opposite route than transcending the separate self/Ego) is awake throughout. IT is aware, and is what you really are. "It" (True You) is nothing specific (despite containg/being everything), but empty Awareness. Totally empty/nothing, but aware, and containing all form. But arising in it is what you think yourself to be right now (I-thoughts and I-feelings), that you don't see/view fast enough to transcend. You see "through" them, like coloured lenses. These lenses of perceptions (I-thoughts and I-feelings, separate-self arisings, making you feel and think you are a body or mind WITHIN Reality, but somehow separate from the boundless Reality) are what cloud your understanding of the Nature of Infinite Consciousness/Reality. When you learn to view (and cut) these arisings fast enough (long training process normally), awakened or nondual states can appear. Then the locatedness of "you" drops, making You the whole field. And other effects (infinite, eternal/always here, empty/impersonal). The three points above are at least in my perspective more useful to describe the process (than asking what wakes up, God or Ego), because: God or Infinite Consciousness doesn't awake. It is always awake/aware, can't be different. The Ego doesn't really exist (EXist=stand out from Raelity). So it can't wake up. It the sum/Gestalt of the appearance of I-thoughts, I-feelings that arise in True You. Once your mindstream/perspective awakenes, these arisings are no longer believed and (if wanted) totally cut off. Your Ego/character becomes literally something like moskito buzzing around in you. And if the character becomes annoying/suffering, you can "chase" it away like an annoying insect. The volume/believeability of its voice goes to "lower than 5%" of what is was before. That is just a pointer. It can only be really understood what it happens. The tools you use to imagine that state (necessarily including I-thoughts) are those that prevent the awakend state in which you could understand it. So the path is Meditation, Trekchö/Cut-Off every thought, Neti Neti, get empty, change to awakened states. And let these states refine and empty your Identity towards Truth. Because what clouds your mindstream, what you think you are, the I-feelings and I-thoughts, are not what you really are. You are much more. But you can only authentically say that when you are in awakened states. Before having stabilized these nondual states, thinking you are everything is just wishful thinking. It doesn't end suffering. Because it is not a change of thinking/concepts. It is not deciding or believing to no longer belief concepts (That "stripping" would be more concepts). it is learning to cut any arising concept/belief/I-thought/I-feeling FAST enough so that your state changes to awakened and nondual states. Thinking to want to no longer belief or stripping of beliefs/ideologies is itself a thought process, not the cutting of all thought arisings including that one. These are very specific states that have counterparts in the bodily energies for example. Enlightenment is a state shift towards nondual, boundless, and empty/impersonal (at least if there is intention for cutting the mindstream if wanted, for example for getting the bliss of the primordial Consciousness). At other times, the character can do its thing. But the body-mind has become an object doing its thing within YOU, Reality itself. (1) If it wouldn't remove suffering, what should make you stay in these enlightened states? You would continue grasping and searching for evermore experiences, like every unenlighened being. (2) Also, you will know the nature of Absolute Reality beyond any doubt. That includes what You are, what Reality is, what every arising/form/phemenon is in its essence, and that you are immortal. And nothing else can be anything different than THAT. Since anything there could be, in any dimension or realm, would just be more "form" or content arisings within Infinite Consciousness. But what would (2) be worth if you still suffer? You would search and grasp for some other experiences... Which obviously the enlightened ones stopped doing. All of them, at all times. They didn't grasp for experiences, and didn't suffer when they didn't get certain experiences. They for sure had preferences, could feel pain, but they didn't grasp or "psychologically-suffering-wise" resist what is. She who is centered in the Tao can go where she wishes, without danger. She perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart. - Tao Te Ching Since every separate being (or better: perspective) is at its essence Infinite Consciousness/Reality itself, every mindstream will end up enlightened. The game is to cast the formless out into form, explore the infinities of infinities that can be manifested (God will never run out of these), and come back home. It is the nature of Reality. It is apparently what Reality does. Love is what throws it all out, and pulls it all back, and its also the essence of every form. That btw. is not fancy mental musings, but actual Reality, potentially directly experienceable by every(!) being in certain awakened states. Water by the River PS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrival_(film) "During the evacuation, Donnelly expresses his love for Banks. They talk about life choices and whether he would change them if he could see the future. Banks knows that she will agree to have a child with him despite knowing their fate: that Hannah will die from an incurable disease and Donnelly will leave them both after she reveals that she knew this."

. Chuck Norris is dead. The good news is: He is already getting better.