Water by the River

Yes. I learned here to my amazement that telling about the possiblity of opening up infinite bliss and release when the egoic self-contraction is dissolved/shut down (literally a contraction mostly felt in the head, and only felt as having been there when its gone), the ignorant/wrong concepts are cut off, and the solidity of the visual field is replaced with mere appearance/clear light, in an Infinite Opening of Reality without any possible limits, and telling of the bliss that that brings on a permanent basis whenever accessing True Nature (which is always here and can not not be here)... ...that all of that is supposedly not possible. Although I have the verification of exactly that every day. And although thousands of people across all times, centuries and cultures, across all wisdom traditions, tell the same. Honestly, what is left of small-me really rejoices in Big Me of the fact that "I" can verify that for myself without needing anything or anyone, or experiencing anything. Especially, i don't need any kind of -ISM anymore, which can only point the the moon, act as pointer. IT, or the "moon", is always right here. Can not not be here. And will eternally be here. Never lost, never found, only overlooked and clouded with ignorance and some other funny arisings hiding the Truth. Well, apparently every being is free to hug the spokes of the wheel of Samsara the egoic self-contraction, declare it God (and not contained within God), and affirm its inherent nature of suffering as the only spiritual goal possible, declaring that un-Truth as summum bonum. Well done, I know a gentlemen with style that would be proud of that.... Well, God & Gods & Gentlement with style don't seem to get tired of playing that game anytime soon. Until then, lets enjoy the show... And now, annoying Water-by-the-River, would you please s*** **? Selling Water by the River

hey, I wrote many times I don't consider myself "a" Buddhist. Exactly because of the problems with the buddhISM you write about (and which are true for most other -ISMs also), and the rather not too many enlightened ones in the -ISM without the B. at the beginning. Although I have some rather tender feelings for that show of mine (B.-ISM) happening in Big Me. Sorry. Stepped too much on the absolute side of the street. Water by the River True, I try to mostly practice not-so-serious-thinking nowadays.

It depends on who says these platitudes. From a certain perspective, they are very true. . Indeed, I didn't have to do deep and serious thinking to come up with these statements. Because for me, and within Buddhism also, it is very clear that at some point the whole(!) conceptual(!) structure of Buddhism must be cut off/transcended/negated also. But better not before that point. That would be the Tony-Parson exit of the road up the mountain. Water by the River

Uuum, lets assume Reality is infinite intelligent. Meaning Impersonal Infinite Consciousness manifests an Intelligence that holds Indras Net in itself, infinitely intelligent. And lets assume that: “Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.” So Reality wants a certain mindstream/states(like boundless timeless infinite mere appearance infinite consciousness)/not-too-unloving-personality/maybe certain other stuff also... : The making oneself accident prone. And then the accident can happen. Its not for the separate-self to decide when precisely that happens. Like I wrote before, there are self-guarding mechanisms of Reality. Reality apparently doesn't want too many enlightened uncompassionate egotists basking 24/7 in the bliss of their true nature. And True Nature = bliss = shutting off the self-contraction in ones head, making the whole field groundless mere appearance floating in infinity, and infinite release a the snap of ones finger. That is just how it is, although many apparently don't like to hear it. Water by the River

Short form quote above Buddhist-style: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. Short form quote above Advaita style: The spiritual search is like a stick that you use to move everything into the fire, and that it itself get's thrown in the fire at very the end. Short form quote above Zen style: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Water by the River

Easy to overlook that 99,9%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened, and at least 99% of Buddhist teachers on the spiritual market place are not fully enlightened? Yes, the "success rate" of the Buddhist project is not good, not to say abysmal... But its a long journey over many (dream-)lifes, and the other spiritual systems/traditions are also not more successful. And for the "masses", Buddhism teaches mainly compassion & love & integration into the world/society/other beings, or generally staying open and loving to all that appears in Ones True Being/Reality, which is the same as living a healthy life on the relative level. Dream? Yes, but a dream more on the happy side and not a nightmare-dream. Which is probably precisely what most souls need to learn in this round of the game. And which is necessary to stabilize Awakening. A big part of the Gateless Gate is made out of compassion. I myself was also like "hey, wake up, that is all relative-level-stuff, go directly to Awakening and so on, why so much about this Boddhichitta and compassion-teaching stuff and why not more emphasis on the real Awakening-teachings?", but over the years as I got older that changed a bit.... Ken Wilber once said in One Taste: "First, although it is generally true that the East has produced a greater number of authentic realizers, nonetheless, the actual percentage of the Eastern population that is engaged in authentic transformative spirituality is, and always has been, pitifully small. I once asked Katagiri Roshi, with whom I had my first breakthrough (hopefully, not a breakdown), how many truly great Ch’an and Zen masters there have historically been. Without hesitating, he said, “Maybe one thousand altogether.” I asked another Zen master how many truly enlightened—deeply enlightened— Japanese Zen masters there were alive today, and he said, “Not more than a dozen.” (that statement from Katagiri was at least 30 years ago, probably rather 40. Nowadays its more for sure (and that quote should not cause any limiting belief), but still shows that one should not take the "Enlightenment" of the next Zen Teacher as the final thing. Chances are way higher that it isn't). Most Enlightenments/Awakenings are not full/deep Enlightenment (in Zen called Great Enlightenment), where there is no more doubt about the nature of Reality, God, Ones True Self. Water by the River @Leo Gura PS: Deep respect from my side concerning your last blog-post. That takes a very high degree of Integrity, Self-Reflection, and above all staying open. Very(!) few people could do something like that. So really deep respect for that, and hopefully I am not coming across in any way condescending or jovial in any way, because that is not intended. Whatever caused your suffering, I wish you all the best and a swift end of suffering, and a fast return to the bliss & pioneering exploration of the higher realms/dimensions! PSPS: Maybe you already know some of that material, but if not you will probably find these books quite interesting: Jaques Vallee, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers Paperback Graham Hancock, Supernatural Charles Upton, The Alien Disclosure Deception: The Metaphysics of Social Engineering. Although some of that stuff is in my opinion too deeply infused with Traditionalist School (perennialism) of Guénon, Coomaraswamy and Schuon, still a very interesting perspective. Jürgen Ziewe (Out of body explorer over 40 years, with valid Enlightenment-experience-descriptions) for example: http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Model_of_the_Multidimensional_Universe.html http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Higher_Mental_Planes_or_Heaven_Worlds.html

I think we can agree on that I wish you (and everyone else) freedom from suffering, and the bliss of the True Nature each being has at its core. And the fact that I do know that you underestimate your potential in being free from suffering and enjoying the bliss of what You really are is probably not one of the more challenging “lets agree to disagree”-topics. In that sense: All the best and Bon Voyage! Water by the River

Yes. Someone once said (don't know who): “Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.” That is for example the essence of going from One Taste Yoga of Mahamudra (making the mindstream confirm (or compatible) to the True State of things, like infinite, empty or non-personal, non-conceptual, nondual, boundless, timeless) to Yoga of Nonmeditation of Mahamudra (where one stops doing anything, since "anyone" doing something is an arising in the mindstream covering Impersonal Empty Infinite Consciousness. And the insight of what one really is, and what reality is, is Enlightenment. Can't be forced, happens by itself when the conditions are exactly right. Yes, its tricky. But has a structure to it. But stopping doing anything BEFORE the mindstream conforms to a structure/state where Enlightenment can happen, one can do "nothing" for a long time and the accident/Enlighenment wont happen. Basically going fully Tony Parson. Water by the River

If such a situation can't be avoided, one better is deeply rooted in ones nature. That one here even shut down one of the most horrible physical pains possible. Burning alive, and didn't even flinch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức Just a humble question: Why not keep that topic OPEN until you can say you are enlightened beyond any possible doubt? Just staying agnostic concerning that topic? That is incorrect. All of them (the mystical traditions) teach some form of liberation and Enlightenment, or the end of psychological suffering. For example: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha That may be true for some very early form of Buddhism, but that is not where Mahayana and especially Tantric Buddhism ended. It is very much pro life, pro-manifestation and living life, and nondual: https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/ Maybe we just have a different definition of terms. I agree with the statement above, as long as suffering is defined not psychological suffering/psychological resistance on top of the suffering that happens. Like for example feeling sad if something bad happens. But a open sadness with open heart, not a closed heart of the ego/self-contraction, or resistance to what is. Ken Wilber has a nice article on that in One Taste: Water by the River

If you want to believe that you cut yourself off from the possibility of the end of suffering. That the end of suffering is possible is the message from all Wisdom Traditions, at all times, from all cultures. A universal message that you are declaring non-existant. Please excuse that I write that so directly. Why do you not stay agnostic on that topic until you have the Enlightenment that all traditions at all times in all cultures point to? On what they point to is universal. Denying or doubting that possibility is denying the Ultimate Potential of the Human Spiritual Potential. It is nothing else than denying your True Nature, denying the path that leads to it, with all consequences that entails. Water by the River

"Enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true directly conscious of what's true like what you are or what existence is" And that includes by definition the infinite potential for any possible form/appearance, arising in Absolute Reality. So what is higher and better, or more valueable? What is worth of ones ultimate spiritual concern? Understanding ever more form/appearance (n+1 forever), or understanding once and for all the Absolute Nature of ones True Self and Reality itself? And stabilizing in that realization, that becomes always available once having realized it? Not knowing ones True Nature is technically called Ignorance in many traditions, and leads to suffering. Waking up to ones True Nature ends the suffering. Water by the River

Are you interested in a "real" Pharisee story? Which I think is quite likely? The historical Buddha probably never existed. Yes, right. His story (hagiography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagiography), is pretty much the same as the founder of Jainism. I think that this version is very likely. Crowley, Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana "It is customary to assume that the Buddha was a historical character (even iconoclasts like Trevor Ling do not question his historicity) but parallels with non-Buddhist systems raise a suspicion that this may not be so. It is no longer believed that there was an ancient Greek poet called Homer who composed the Iliad and Odyssey. These “Homeric” epics are now understood to be compiled and refined from the compositions of many individual storytellers. Might not the teachings of “the Buddha” be analogous? Could the teachings also have been an age-old body of wisdom, analogously compiled, refined and imputed to a single, fictitious author? These teachings would have been transmitted orally but eventually, when writing systems arrived, transcribed as suttas. The earliest Buddhist art does not depict the Buddha as a person, but merely in symbolic form. In these so-called “aniconic” images, he may be shown as a parasol, an empty throne, pillar of fire or a pair of footprints. Could this be an acknowledgment that “the Buddha” was not a person in the normal meaning of the word? There is a strange feature of the Buddha’s biography which rarely receives comment and that is its similarity to the life of Vardhaman. Also known as Mahāvira (literally, “great man”), Vardhaman was son of a king, born with the 32 major and minor signs of his body. His father, the king, consulted wise men who foretold that he was destined to become a world-ruling emperor or a great spiritual leader. The wise men advise the king that to prevent him becoming a great sage, he must keep his son distracted with amusements. This the king does until, as an adult, Vardhaman escapes from the palace, meditates in the forest and achieves enlightenment. He teaches a non-Vedic path which, he says, is called Jainism. Anyone who knows the life of the Buddha will recognize all this as the same story. Even so, I have left out a lot of parallels such as identical personal names of characters in the biographies. Buddhism and Jainism also share many of the same symbols (e.g. a pair of footprints, the parasol, the cow hoofprint or nandi-pada, and the “śrivatsa” symbol). Curiously, many of these symbols are also found on Indus Valley seals." Interesting conincidence, hm? Like Christianity and Mithraism (For that, see Brian Muraresku or Carl Ruck)... And for the Buddhists: Anyway, lets get the copycats with the icepicks.... ( : And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1... . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all. Anyway, I am not going to convince anybody by logic. And until the suffering stops, one will keep walking ones path, by definition. So just continue practicing in whatever way one resonates with (5 MeO, meditation, whatever), and stay open... Bon voyage! How one gets to Enlightenment: I am very open to all paths. But I have never seen one psychedelic-afficionado who did this without further practices. Could be that there are, but I am not aware of one. If anybody knows someone, let me know. On the other side, I know quite some who are enlightened (not the n+1, the real thing). So lets just continue watching the show evolving here, and lets see if its happy ever after, or continued however one wants to call it. Water by the River

Yes. At the end of the day they are the same properties of ones True Core. Sat-Chit-Ananda. It is one and the same, and one can't be fully had without the other. And for passing the Gateless Gate, and not the Awakening n+1: Reality tends to demands a huge amount of love/compassion also. Every spiritual tradition has practices for that at its core. Water by the River

Yup, 20 years should do it. Even for the Aliens. After the aspiring Boddhisattva understood the joke of his own seriousness (and aspiring Boddhisattva-self-contradiction), he still continues his past habit, but in his core keeps a smile for the biggest joke ever played... Outside my window the beautiful clouds of a cold-front that has passed. On the screen the virtual representation of this lovely Spiritualoholics Anonymous chapter of ours.... What a magnificent show. Water by the River PS: Ahem, the move.... so: PS PS: Bazooka Jesus for president of this lovely chapter of the Spiritualoholics Anonymous here! Got my vote for sure ( :

Reality is Infinitely Intelligent. Just look at the manifested Universe. If one destroys or harms the life & development of others, or sets them in the wrong path, it will hurt ones soul. In the Bardo/Afterlife, these energies of the harm done will strike back and will demand further growth and development via suffering of the perpetrator. Normally it happens already in the current life. That is what Karma is. The Universe is not that dumb that Karma only means cause-effect on the physical level (light a candle, the candle burns down to a stump). There is a huge cycle of souls/perspectives/holons growing over long periods and many incarnations. Ever noticed that our fellow human companions range a broad span development-wise? The most important dimension of Karma on a soul level for example in Tibetan Buddhism are wisdom (basically intelligence, or being able to watch ones internal flow of thought instead of being identified with it, and cognitive intuition/capacity), AND compassion/love/boddhichitta (accepting and loving the manifested reality/visual field/"others"). If you are so inclinced read some Out-of-Body-Explorer literature. There is more than enough of it. All of that is relative and imagined, but if somebody tells me I don't care, then: How well is the current imagined life-illusion handeld? All love and Sat-Chit-Ananda? If not so, how come? Those who ignore all of that will be given other masters. And that is why probably: Trainwreck ahead. Water by the River

Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet. And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being. And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion... Water by the River

Exactly. Water by the River

Oh, somebody with a working spiritual compass, and a heart to actually listen to it. Bon voyage and all the best! That is now the most likely path. Writing about ones own (Alien) insanity, and rolling out the path to that to an audience dragged by google & Co. to this place (many with psychological problems), and having a paywall as entry criteria. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Each suicide will haunt him in the afterlife & next lifes when the emotional suffering & energies caused by it are no longer shielded from him, like in this earth realm. Infinite Intelligent Reality? Oh yes, perfectly sufficient intelligent enough to handle back that Karma & suffering caused, as learning experience for the soul. Didn't see these mechanism on his trips? Many many others have, in minute detail. Sure, all imagined. But that won't help then. Hell is also only just imagined, but appears very very real while having the resulting hellish bad-Karma nightmare-dream. You Will Know Them by Their Fruits 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20 So it seems that Spirit is not tired playing its game, and didn't choose this case here to be an example of "psychedelics-beneficically and wisely used in an integrated way", but instead a showcase-example of "what can go wrong rolling out an extreme psychedelic protocoll to an unscreened, uncoached and unqualified audience". Water by the River

If he could, he would be compassionate and loving. Obviously, he can't. So we get excuses and increasingly rationalizations. Talk is cheap. At the end it all boils down to the conduct with which one lives ones life. Loving, open, gentle, wise, compassionate, blissful and at peace. Actualized. Or the opposite. And what is the name for the phenomenon of the unloving, unkind and uncompassionate arisings in the mindstream which prevent love and compassion? What is the name for the self-contraction and resistance to what IS, to Reality as it manifest, to the Divine Reality happening right now right here in all of us? Is it that complicated? Water by the River

Exactly then one would communicate with compassion, and not with superiority.

Moksha has clearly written his perspective. Interesting to see how that needs to be interpreted in order to stay congruent. It is very possible that Reality is not intending to let this whole project here come to happy ending, and let it manifest as an example of what can go wrong. We will see. It seems like the heart and soul of each participant either feels the warning of ever deepening dissonance, or doesn't intuit the obvious and happily goes along. A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. - Matthew 12:33 Water by the River

That is really very sad. Thank you very much for all your wise posts and the love you brought to the forum. I would be very happy when you find the inspiration at some point in the future to join the exchange here again, although I can understand your decission. All the best. Water by the River

Thank you for the link. I will check it. If you find further stuff in that direction, i would be thankful if you post or PM me that. I am well aware that this is only a working hypothesis. "because there's little concentrations of it and they hope that 0,5 mg DMT from the body can somehow act like 30 mg DMT from outside the body". I assume when DMT gets to the body externally, that it gets more or less evenly distributed in the body. Considering that the brain & brain strem is only a fraction of the body weight, and maybe only a fraction of the brain/brain strem gets affected (maybe by Cerebrospinal fluid), and the DMT is secreceted exactly where is has an effect, I could imagine the small volume having a similiar impact. If the area that is affected is much smaller, and the diffusion once secreted is slow, I could imagine that the impact via Cerebrospinal fluid is high, even though the secreted volume/mass is low. But I don't know, and probably nobody else has evidence for or against it. But I would be thankful on any further information in case somebody has more information or another perspective. "Cerebrospinal fluid bathes the gland through the pineal recess", from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525955/ Lets see how the research will develop. I am well aware that correlation is not causation, but the effects of psychedelics and these mystical experiences have similarities. Water by the River

ok, in that context I agree. The state from psychedelics is as real as any other state.

Ok, got it. Somebody recently complained (in a quite, um, motivated way) about being gaslightened, or gaslit, or criticized, or whatever, about certain Awakenings. Which are/were supposedly Absolute Timeless Truths. Invincible Truths, so to say. That is why the words "gaslit/gaslightened on" and "Awakening" in close combination strikes yours truly as a rather unlucky combination. Water by the River